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The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)

Simon Massey

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Title: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Tagline: Witness the defining chapter of the Middle-Earth saga

Genre: Action, Adventure, Fantasy

Director: Peter Jackson

Cast: Ian McKellen, Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Orlando Bloom, Evangeline Lilly, Luke Evans, Lee Pace, Benedict Cumberbatch, Ken Stott, Aidan Turner, Dean O'Gorman, Billy Connolly, Graham McTavish, James Nesbitt, Stephen Fry, Ryan Gage, Cate Blanchett, Ian Holm, Christopher Lee, Hugo Weaving, Mikael Persbrandt, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Hambleton, John Callen, Mark Hadlow, Jed Brophy, William Kircher, Stephen Hunter, Adam Brown, John Bell, Manu Bennett, John Tui, Peggy Nesbitt, Mary Nesbitt, Kelly Kilgour, Mark Mitchinson, Sarah Peirse, Nick Blake, Simon London, Conan Stevens, Allan Smith, Miranda Harcourt, Thomasin McKenzie, Erin Banks, Brian Hotter, Timothy Bartlett, Merv Smith, Martin Kwok, Dee Bradley Baker, Olof Johnsson, Jon Olson, Otep Shamaya, Debra Wilson, Jack Binding, Terry Binding, Stephen Gledhill, Billy Jackson, Katie Jackson, Peter Jackson, Terry Notary

Release: 2014-12-10

Runtime: 144

Plot: Immediately after the events of The Desolation of Smaug, Bilbo and the dwarves try to defend Erebor's mountain of treasure from others who claim it: the men of the ruined Laketown and the elves of Mirkwood. Meanwhile an army of Orcs led by Azog the Defiler is marching on Erebor, fueled by the rise of the dark lord Sauron. Dwarves, elves and men must unite, and the hope for Middle-Earth falls into Bilbo's hands.

What no Hobbit thread for the third film yet ? :) How the mighty have fallen. It seems there is a lot less interest in Middle Earth these days. I for one thought Smaug was a much stronger second film and have high hopes for this last one, thought Im getting a Return of the King vibe from the big battle which could result in this feeling a little repetitive. Still more Smaug can only be a good thing

The teaser trailer is out - looks good and a definite attempt to link it with LOTR

 

frik

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I'm a fan! So, thank you for starting this thread.
I find much to enjoy in The Hobbit I and II. Of course the story has been fleshed out too much, and I guess PJ is as much to blame as the studio(s). And much is way OTT. But I like OTT and can't wait for this final film. Bring it on, Mr. Jackson!
(Hope for more of Christopher Lee as well!)

sk
 

Lou Sytsma

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jBd79Gv.jpg
 

Ejanss

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Oh, so we actually have the Hobbit IN the poster, this time! That's charitable of them. ;)
Simon Massey said:
What no Hobbit thread for the third film yet ? :) How the mighty have fallen. It seems there is a lot less interest in Middle Earth these days. I for one thought Smaug was a much stronger second film
Hoo-boy...HAVE they fallen. :wacko:
The Hobbit films aren't so much "Peter Jackson's Prequel Trilogy" (Lucas metaphor intended), so much as Desolation was the Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader of the LOTR films.
The ones where they got overconfident on a little bit of updating classic children's Lewis/Tolkien for Big Epic Blockbuster, started "fixing" it with some additional made-up-crap plot lines, until, like VoDT, the screenwriters so couldn't get over themselves, they couldn't find their way back to the original book with a map, compass and three-day canteen.

(Smaug was a "stronger" film? Smaug in the book never even freakin' MET Thorin, let alone side with the Enemy, or taunt him about his quest. Period. He had no interest--dragons rarely do--in the politics of the country, and his issues pretty much began and ended with "Touch a coin and you're toast." That was why the book story was about Bilbo, and not Thorin.
In the book, Bilbo throws out riddles about himself to throw Smaug off the trail, and Smaug wrongly guesses "Barrel-rider? Then you are one of those Lake men!" In the movie, no less than twenty minutes to a half hour of PJ Made-Up-Crap Thorin Oakenshield Subplot occurs between those two lines. The two LINES. From the BOOK.
Cecil B. DeMille once said, "Give me two pages of the Bible, and I'll give you a picture." Peter Jackson says, "Give me two pages of Tolkien, and I'll give you a trilogy subplot, a chase, and a videogame-ready ten-minute action scene." And he went through every single blessed pair of pages in the book.)

I hate to beat the old drum, but it's particularly and painfully apparent watching TDoS and now the new Hobbit-free title title change:
LOTR worked because it was a long book being cut down...The Hobbit Trilogy doesn't work because it doesn't want to be the book, doesn't want to be its own film, and literally has more love for its own franchise-friendly trilogy-stretching filler than for anything that was in black and white.
I'm hoping that's why I'll keep my EE of the original trilogy, but wow, did these movies officially Never Happen.
 

Simon Massey

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Smaug was a stronger "film" yes. It may not be an adaptation that matches the book but it was better than Unexpected Journey for me.
 

Ejanss

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frik said:
Of course the story has been fleshed out too much, and I guess PJ is as much to blame as the studio(s). And much is way OTT.
Although given that he's script credited, and worked on the first drafts, I'm also wondering how many fingers Guillermo Del Toro had in the pie...

In this one, they've set it up to be the Final Armageddon Battle with (Sauron), in which the Elves and Dwarves take sides, and Bard redeems his father's legacy and leads the Lake villagers to overthrow tyranny, etc.
In the book, the titular Battle was a simple greedy chest-beating scrap over who "deserved" the dragon's gold--it lasted two pages, but we know what PJ can do with those! :rolleyes: --and Bilbo, having no use for such foolishness, was quickly out of the battle and therefore one of the few who survived. That was sort of Tolkien's point, y'see, about the greed of treasure and Hobbits being peaceable folk whose common sense was more important than epic foofarah.

By making it "The Epic Final Confrontation, paving the way to the Epic Trilogy"--in which, of course Thorin's quest to bring a homeland to the Dwarves will finally be realized--Jackson has now nearly lost all of the main intention of the book. You can stretch it out, but when you water down a drink to the point that there's more water than drink, you might just as well call it flavored water. There's very little of Tolkien's themes left that you can even find with a magnifying glass, and even the title character has been reduced to a observing bystander who agrees with the "hero"'s quest.
 

Wayne_j

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Desolation of Smaug was the better film, but An Unexpected Journey was more faithful to the book. The trailer for Battle of the Five Armies looks good.
 

Bob_S.

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I agree with a lot of what Ejanss is saying. I don't mind the extra stuff from the Appendices but the made up crap PJ came up with is horrible. And just way too much OTT in your face bad cgi. AUJ was good (not great) and DOS was a major disappointment. I'll definitely see this film but I don't have the giddiness of a Tolkien fan as I did before AUJ came out. What a missed opportunity. :(
 

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Can we get another long post from Ejanss telling us how horrible these movies are! J/KI'm not ashamed to admit that I'm not a book reader, never have been. Growing up I just never read many books unless it was required for school, and even then I didn't always read them. So, I have never actually read The Hobbit. I went into these movies only knowing the LOTR, and I was attracted to these movies because of the LOTR films. I knew the book was short and I knew PJ was over indulging things to make this a trilogy but, I didn't know specific differences and additions until reading about them online. I basically knew the book was about a Hobbit and dwarves and a dragon. I'm just saying that, from some one with only a passing knowledge of the book, I absolutely love these films. I rank them right up there with the LOTR films. I'm serious, I've loved every minute of the Hobbit films so far and, the trailer for BotFA looks amazing. From my point of view, based on Ejanss' description of the Smaug scene in the book, the one in the film is 10x more exciting. That is my favorite sequence of the series so far, I can't count how many times I've watched it on BD. From the second Bilbo steps onto the gold until the credits roll is just exhilarating imo. I didn't mind the dwarves fighting Smaug, it was fun. I can't wait until December, I love every minute of these Middle Earth films. This is just my opinion, form someone with only a passing knowledge of the source material. If you are a big fan of the book, I understand your frustrations, I've been there. I just wanted to give my opinion from the other side.
 

Tim Glover

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I don't want to be a thread crapper but I just didn't care for The Desolation of Smaug. Some good moments but it felt tedious and I found myself bored.

When I left the theater I said I really don't care how it all ends. :( I think Jackson has missed the mark on these films. And this is from someone who absolutely adores the LOTR films.

I guess I will await word of mouth and decide on this final entry.
 

Ejanss

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Chris Will said:
Can we get another long post from Ejanss telling us how horrible these movies are! J/K
Oh, go ahead and ask. I got PLENTY. :angry:
I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm not a book reader, never have been. Growing up I just never read many books unless it was required for school, and even then I didn't always read them.
So, I have never actually read The Hobbit. I went into these movies only knowing the LOTR, and I was attracted to these movies because of the LOTR films. I knew the book was short and I knew PJ was over indulging things to make this a trilogy but, I didn't know specific differences and additions until reading about them online. I basically knew the book was about a Hobbit and dwarves and a dragon.
First thing to understand--which PJ clearly didn't, since he was too concerned about "backstorying" his better known epic, like X-Men:Wolverine--is that JRR wrote Hobbit as a children's story. He wrote it on a whim (and was advised by his pub writing buddies to change the "fairies" to "elves"); he literally didn't know what the "Ring of the Necromancer" was for or even who "the Necromancer" was for that matter, it just added a little fantasy color to the ending. It was just supposed to be a pleasant, English-tinged faux-fairytale with his taste for old sagas, in the same vein as his very children-oriented "Farmer Giles of Ham". The publisher gave it to his ten-yo. son to read.
In the book, the whimsy was entirely about Bilbo uprooted from his country house and sent on an epic adventure "without a spare handkerchief", because Gandalf thinks he "needs" an adventure--not because he has an Epic Destiny to Fulfill--and he finds a dining room full of boisterous dwarves in his pantry. (The first half hour of AUJ is Fellowship-level faithful; it's once they set out, and Dr. Who shows up with bird poop, that the movie officially goes off the rails, never to recover.) Despite all the backstory, the entire theme is that Bilbo's simple common sense is just what the group needs--which is why he is the one sent to outwit the dragon--and that maybe getting out of doors and facing danger without a pipe or spare handkerchief isn't such a bad thing after all.
By taking simple Shire sense out of the story, and making it Thorin's Epic, PJ's not only taken the simple theme and humor out of the story, he's taken the main character out of it as well. So, why not just change the title, while he's at it?...Oh, wait, he just did.

In short, READ IT. I'm sure you enjoy the movies for what they are like anyone else who Doesn't Know Any Better ;) ; it's one short book--hence the problem--it's not LOTR, and that's why I thought it was a lot more fun when I was a kid. (Even those of us who do read never get all the way through Two Towers on the first try.) It's on audiobook, and it's on Apple eBook, how hard could it be?
And if that little bit of literacy is too much, go rent the '77 Rankin-Bass animated; it may not be pretty, but it's 90% book-faithful, unlike a few other movies we could name. If you want Kewl Dragons, PJ's got 'em for you, but if you want Tolkien, you're just lying to yourself.
 

Simon Massey

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In short, READ IT. I'm sure you enjoy the movies for what they are like anyone else who Doesn't Know Any Better ;) ; it's one short book--hence the problem--it's not LOTR, and that's why I thought it was a lot more fun when I was a kid. (Even those of us who do read never get all the way through Two Towers on the first try.) It's on audiobook, and it's on Apple eBook, how hard could it be?
And if that little bit of literacy is too much, go rent the '77 Rankin-Bass animated; it may not be pretty, but it's 90% book-faithful, unlike a few other movies we could name. If you want Kewl Dragons, PJ's got 'em for you, but if you want Tolkien, you're just lying to yourself.
Condescending much ???

I have read the Hobbit and it was one of my favourite books as a child. Im also aware that the tone is very different to LOTR - reading the Hobbit was what got my started into reading LOTR because I so loved the characters from the Hobbit and initially thought it was going to be about Bilbo again.

I also see the movies as completely different animals to the books, including LOTR and accept that any adaptations are going to take things out or change things. If they work within the movie itself, then I don't have a problem with it. The books aren't going anywhere and I don't need a step-by-step verbatim visual guide to the book thank you. Thorin's meeting Smaug in the film makes perfect sense in the context of the film for me, but we will see where Jackson takes his character in the last film.

I do agree that the tone of the Hobbit films is more like LOTR unlike the book and Jackson has certainly stretched out the films unnecessarily in many cases. However, what I enjoyed about Smaug was that the pacing of the film was much better and there was a little bit more fun within the film that the rather portentous Unexpected Journey often forgot in its bid to tie in events with LOTR.

And what I enjoy about the films is not just the "kewl dragons" :rolleyes: but the characters I am following, especially Freeman's Bilbo - for the most part I think Jackson has got Bilbo right, despite surrounding him with extraneous material. What is disappointing is that some of the other characters aren't as good as LOTR, a lot of the LOTR cameos slow the film down, and the drive to tie in events to LOTR isn't necessary for these films. Thorin's role however Im glad they beefed up though I agree they haven't always got it right.

And I also love the finale under the Mountain and I enjoyed the barrel sequence a lot too. Importantly they were a lot of fun, which, given that this is based on a children's book, the film needed.
That was sort of Tolkien's point, y'see, about the greed of treasure and Hobbits being peaceable folk whose common sense was more important than epic foofarah.
Whilst Im sure the tie into LOTR will be front and centre, I suspect this will also be a theme in the last film too.
 

Sam Favate

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The teaser looks great, and I'm excited to see this the day it opens.

Maybe someday PJ can make a movie from the Silmarillion. Won't that piss off a lot of people!

Richard Armitage says it's a question of 'when,' not 'if.'
http://www.thesilmarillionmovie.com/
 

Simon Massey

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I'm sure there will be other Tolkien adaptations - too much money here to not do - but I think Jackson will be done after this and I think it would be better to let others explore the other stories - I for one was very much looking forward to a Del Toro version
 

Bob_S.

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We will never see a Silmarillion movie in our lifetime at least. Christopher Tolkien will see to that.
 
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