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Beginner system upgrade / guidance request


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#21 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 10 2014 - 10:12 AM

Sam,

 

Sorry to keep bugging you with all these questions but I've come to respect your input quite a bit.

 

Another question for you if it's all right: Will Yamaha's YPAO auto calibration be decent enough or would you recommend an SPL meter + audio calibration disc of some sort? (if SPL+ calibration disc any specific suggestions?)

Also, I can't get the final piece (subwoofer) for another month most likely - does a full audio calibration require the sub, or can I do it with the 7 main speakers first and just adjust the new subwoofer manually once it replaces my current cheapy sub?



#22 of 32 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 10 2014 - 10:36 AM

You can rerun the YPAO.

I think YPAO sounds the most natural(since it is parametric, the speakers don't end up "muffled").

But..any AVR you choose will have multiple EQ. So you can do both.

#23 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 13 2014 - 01:21 PM

You can rerun the YPAO.

I think YPAO sounds the most natural(since it is parametric, the speakers don't end up "muffled").

But..any AVR you choose will have multiple EQ. So you can do both.

sounds good.

Now I just need to decide of the side surrounds need to be elevated or not. With all the old setup I had those old bookshelves with the tweeter and midrange at ~7ft above the floor and did not like the sound... usually I didn't hear anything from them at that height.

I cut their shelves down so that the tweeters were just a few inches above my seated ear height and felt that the sound was tremendously more enveloping that way... 

However now that I have 5 floor-standing towers I'm not sure if I should even bother trying to find something to raise the side surround towers up at all. The surround-back bookshelves are mounted on the wall about 6 feet above the floor but I don't have the AVR yet to see how they sound up/back there...



#24 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 20 2014 - 10:25 AM

Well,

TV and final pair of towers came in last weekend - and I finished the semi-permanent light and sound blocking measures.

Although you can see a small amount of very faint clouding on a full deep black screen, I can't see it under any other circumstances at all, and there is 1 tiny spot of very small flashlighting near the bottom left corner but again you can't really see it from the seating position unless a specific type of scene is being displayed and you are looking for it. 

Overall I'm really happy with it which I suppose is all that ultimately matters.

Still running 5.1 but with all Yamaha NS-777 towers + old crappy sub, but it sounds better already. I'll be ordering the AVR this Friday (decided to stick with the RX-A1030) so next week I'll at least be up to real 7.1 with the NS-333's wall-mounted in the back and aimed and calibrated with YPAO.

Subwoofer-wise, you said a single VTF-15H or Mk2 version will be plenty adequate for foundation-decimating bass? That is the last piece of hardware I need to complete this upgrade and should be able to order it within a month. I liked the idea of a fully sealed sub but thought it would be more handy to have the option of switching to single/double ported just in case.



#25 of 32 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted October 20 2014 - 01:05 PM

Sam,

 

Sorry to keep bugging you with all these questions but I've come to respect your input quite a bit.

 

Another question for you if it's all right: Will Yamaha's YPAO auto calibration be decent enough or would you recommend an SPL meter + audio calibration disc of some sort? (if SPL+ calibration disc any specific suggestions?)

Also, I can't get the final piece (subwoofer) for another month most likely - does a full audio calibration require the sub, or can I do it with the 7 main speakers first and just adjust the new subwoofer manually once it replaces my current cheapy sub?

An SPL meter will allow you take it to the next level and measure just your sub's response.  A step above that is getting a calibrated mic like the Dayton Audio UMM-6 and Room EQ Wizard (free software) is a step above that.

 

I needed it because my subs were very boomy  when I adjusted them to sound good on movies.  When I adjusted them to remove the boominess, they sounded weak on the extreme lows.  After measuring their in-room response, I had a 14db peak at 55hz.  With a $99 digital parametric EQ, I was able to tame my sub's in-room response so that it is + or - 3db from 100hz to 17hz.


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#26 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 26 2014 - 11:03 AM

So the AVR arrived yesterday. I set the sub's volume to half as the owner's manual stated and somewhat as expected it set the sub volume too low I think.

Or the sub just isn't very good (which is more or less a fact given it's advertised response range drops off sharply at 40hz).

Anywho, it set the crossover point at 40Hz, which also was not a surprise since 5/7 main speakers can do 30Hz themselves.

YPAO's default settings sounded ok minus basically not using the sub, but I went back in and tweaked them because the distance was wrong for most of the speakers, and it thought my little NS-333 bookshelves (surround back L & R) were Large for some reason. I bumped the subwoofer crossover up to 60Hz hoping that it would at least have something to do in this case.

Not too worried since I still need to purchase the new sub (pretty sure I'm going with that HSU VTF-15H Mk2 unless it's still not available, the original version should do fine I would imagine in this 12x24x8 room), and I'll just have to re-run YPAO when that arrives anyway, but all in all I've been very pleased with the 7-speaker surround aspect of this new AVR. It seems to handle everything much better than the old Denon 5.1 receiver and having built-in analogue-to-HDMI conversion has been a blessing.

Also of note, when passing a video signal over HDMI from my PC, the old Denon showed up on the PC end no matter what... but with this Yamaha, it's nice because if the TV is on the PC can actually see it (shows up as Samsung on the PC end), rather than only seeing the receiver.



#27 of 32 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted October 27 2014 - 05:05 AM

Anywho, it set the crossover point at 40Hz, which also was not a surprise since 5/7 main speakers can do 30Hz themselves.

 In your AVR?  Set it at 80hz.  It doesn't matter if your speakers can do 10hz, setting the crossover at 80 and your speakers to SMALL will take the low bass load off of the receiver and put it on the sub.

 

I went back in and tweaked them because the distance was wrong for most of the speakers

Distance is set by phase and not actual distance.  The receiver is making sure that all sounds reach the mic location in phase.  You just messed that up.

 

the original version should do fine I would imagine in this 12x24x8 room

My room is 12x24x9 and I'm only running one of my two 15's.  It's enough for 99% of people just not me.



#28 of 32 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 27 2014 - 07:23 AM

Robert and I disagree on crossovers...(there is no right answer)

Does this Yammy offer multiple crossovers?(the top model at least does...been shown in the room setup screen, but the manual makes no reference of it)

#29 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 27 2014 - 08:03 AM

Sam,

 

I will have to check again if it has multiple - as I recall there was only 1 'subwoofer crossover' setting.


Robert, while I understand the conventional setting of 80Hz for that intended purpose, I found that since 5 of the main speakers can push 10Hz lower than the dedicated subwoofer can, there was a very obvious loss of low-end by shifting 40Hz-80Hz to the sub. My hope is that by picking up that HSU subwoofer (which is rated down to about 18-20Hz), I can safely move a few octaves from the towers without losing anything at all.

All in all I'm very pleased with this AVR, but am just that much more wanting for an up-to-par subwoofer now that everything else has been upgraded.



#30 of 32 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 27 2014 - 09:13 AM

Look for my review of the Elite SC79.

The final few posts show the multiple crossover in a top model Yamaha (it was a response to me saying Pio and Yammy need to start offering them).
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#31 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 28 2014 - 02:33 PM

Look for my review of the Elite SC79.

The final few posts show the multiple crossover in a top model Yamaha (it was a response to me saying Pio and Yammy need to start offering them).

Found it. I believe that was on a 3020, not sure my 1030 has the individual crossover points per speaker but I will double check tonight after work. Would sure be handy since the front 5 speakers are all more or less full-range capable, and only the rear surrounds are bookshelves...



#32 of 32 OFFLINE   kalm_traveler

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Posted October 28 2014 - 07:15 PM

IMG_20141028_211437.jpg

Yeah my menu is missing several of the 3020 options including individual speaker crossover points






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