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Dolby Atmos in the Home Theater, AVRs, and Separate

Dolby Atmos

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#1 of 104 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted June 23 2014 - 12:35 PM

think about it... even with the recent Onkyo they are still limited by the # of speakers and the recommended placements! there'll be many other fabs announcing things to come.this is the perfect time for pre-amp/processors to have Atmos or MDA built-in. then spit that signal out to 'daisy-chained' mono-block amps where a user can do 5.1 or 20.22 if they really wanted to and the cabling system would report back to the pre-amp whether that speaker is front or right or whatever or use audsey like tools to 'hear' where that speaker is placed.basically the OLD SCHOOL of thought of center for dialogue and front and rear channels should be blow away! let the new guard come in and replace it all!or you can use the pre-amp to spit the atmos signal back out onto another "amp-controller" where that has the CPU intel to figure how many speaker blocks you intend to hook up. then from there on, connect it to mono-block amps.



#2 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted June 23 2014 - 03:24 PM

Or, they figure out how to do on screen menu's, and you could do it manually.

#3 of 104 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted June 24 2014 - 04:45 AM

even with the software-based settings... you still need a good/solid hardware solution to connect to as many speakers as user wants



#4 of 104 OFFLINE   zoetmb

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Posted June 28 2014 - 11:43 AM

If Atmos for the home goes beyond the 5.1/7.1 + 4 ceiling speakers that they've announced so far, the only way multitudes of speakers are going to be practical is with wireless networked (active) speakers.     Unless you have a $million home theatre, no one is going to want to wire up to 64 speakers.    



#5 of 104 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted June 28 2014 - 11:54 AM

i also dont think most will configure 64speakers... but i think 7.1+4 more or a handful is still feasible.



#6 of 104 OFFLINE   vidiot33

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Posted June 28 2014 - 06:32 PM

Most don't even do 7.1, more than that is most likely not in the cards for the majority of consumers, and their dollars tend to drive trends, not HT enthusiasts, unfortunately .

#7 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted June 28 2014 - 07:10 PM

I've already "ordered" the NR3030(used to work for a wholesaler...can still buy that way).The only way I won't have one is if a 5030 materializes. Already got confirmation that both IIz and Atmos can be wired up.So my theatre will be the current 9(height) plus 4 more correctly placed for Atmos.Not doing in-ceiling. Will be buying BIC DV52 and mounting them.(Now all we need is DTS Neo: XXX)

#8 of 104 OFFLINE   Dave Upton

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Posted June 30 2014 - 11:29 AM

I am hoping to try out Atmos myself, but will reserve my purchase for a bit. I'm hoping my AV8801 will get a software update to support it.



#9 of 104 OFFLINE   DanH1972

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Posted July 04 2014 - 02:03 PM

i also don't think most will configure 64 speakers... but i think 7.1+4 more for a handful is still feasible.

 

Home Atmos has positional metadata for 34 outputs:  24 + 10.  I'm assuming a couple of those 24 "mains" are subwoofer outs. 

 

I think modular pre-amp renderers is truly the way to go.  I might want more expandability than 7.1.4, but I may not be able to afford the entire 34 out capable units either.  

 

They must also have 3D friendly calibration built-in like Dolby's Lake format, so the renderer can map to whatever layout you have. 



#10 of 104 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted July 04 2014 - 07:31 PM

i just read a twice.com article about how they intend to deploy atmoa bd this fall and i'm not pleased it sounds like they are making a LOT stop-gap temp solutoions instead of going all out. lets just commit to whole new format that can do multi TB with Dolby Vision retaining xyz color space and full commercial objects metadata for atmos and dts mda.

#11 of 104 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted July 12 2014 - 03:23 AM

What material has/will have atmos?Is this like 4k: cool tech, no media?How is this affordable? I've an SVS 5.1 setup. How do I fill in 4-9 more speakers without having to start over and spend $7k-$10k?

#12 of 104 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 12 2014 - 03:32 AM

What material has/will have atmos?Is this like 4k: cool tech, no media?How is this affordable? I've an SVS 5.1 setup. How do I fill in 4-9 more speakers without having to start over and spend $7k-$10k?

 

I believe with Atmos you don't have to buy all the speakers at once, buy two, then a year later buy four more, etc etc, the initial cost comes from the receiver and more amplification, i'm not sure how that part works, can they provide an AV Receiver with 7 channels at a good price and add pre-outs so one can build the system up at your convenience, for example a dozen or more pre-outs, add the amplification and speakers and hey presto or is it going to be much more costly, i just don't see affordable AV Receivers having more than 7 or 9 channels of amplification so pre-outs seems a good way to let people build the system up.


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#13 of 104 OFFLINE   DanH1972

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Posted July 12 2014 - 07:32 AM

What material has/will have atmos?Is this like 4k: cool tech, no media?How is this affordable? I've an SVS 5.1 setup. How do I fill in 4-9 more speakers without having to start over and spend $7k-$10k?

 

Dolby was talking up the fact that titles will start coming this fall. That probably means around October/November for the holiday season.  They did not, however, specify if these will be stand alone releases like some 3D Blu-ray titles or be included as part of any regular old release just like a normal Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio encoded track since it can be contained within the same Dolby TrueHD file as extension data.

 

An August announcement and a CEDIA presentation are in the works, so hopefully we'll know more soon.  

 

Since you have a 5.1 system, you could just add dual ceiling speakers for now... plus a new processor, of course.  There are a few basic layouts that early Atmos renderers will map to.  They just don't have the chip horsepower included right now to do full 3D audio calibration and soundtrack re-mapping... unless you get a Trinnov Altitude processor. 

 

Unless SVS announces new timbre matched speakers that match Atmos wide-dispersal requirements (I'm not talking about the all-in-one's with upward firing reflective drivers), the closest on ceiling speakers I would recommend would be another pair of Ultra Surrounds in bipole mode.  If you are using another pair of Ultra Surrounds for the side channels right now, I would also recommend using the bipole mode, not the dipole mode for Atmos. 

 

Then you can add the rear ceiling speakers and back wall surrounds later (as long as you purchased a product with 7.1.4 layout capabilities). 

 

Of course, if you ever had the resources and the room, Atmos will handle 24 mains + 10 ceilings.  Dolby ProLogic IIz is getting re-jiggered so that you can do an Atmos "upmix" using the same Atmos speaker arrangement for regular 5.1 and 7.1 tracks.



#14 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 12 2014 - 08:50 AM

Dave, specifically...When I reviewed the SVS I tried one of the surrounds in stereo mode(err...duet) on a Panasonic 17wpc desk stereo. Sounded pretty good(the only thing "lacking" was channel separation...well duh).You could add a pair "centered" in duet mode.By the way. I'm adding the BIC DV52 as my Atmos. Plan on adding them in 3' off the wall tilted towards the pure middle seat in the room(experimentation required for exact tilt). So they, essentially, will hang backside up.

#15 of 104 OFFLINE   DanH1972

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Posted July 12 2014 - 09:02 AM

Dave, specifically...When I reviewed the SVS I tried one of the surrounds in stereo mode(err...duet) on a Panasonic 17wpc desk stereo. Sounded pretty good(the only thing "lacking" was channel separation...well duh).You could add a pair "centered" in duet mode.By the way. I'm adding the BIC DV52 as my Atmos. Plan on adding them in 3' off the wall tilted towards the pure middle seat in the room(experimentation required for exact tilt). So they, essentially, will hang backside up.

 

That's the problem with duet mode in a box that's so small... channel separation.  I probably would stick to bipole mode and single "channel" usage until we know more.

 

I would also go so far as to say that it might be better to wait on choosing additional speakers and their locations until there is more data to go on.  Don't want to plunk down good money, string wire, and mount speakers and then end up banging your head against the wall because you chose wrong.



#16 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 12 2014 - 09:15 AM

Atmos is already spec'd.The Atmos speakers mount at the 4 corners of your seating...if your room is proper layout.My theatre is three futons. I'll lay them out, where the 4 corners are...is where the BIC will mount(I'll add maybe 8-12 inches at the 90° mark since they will be angled).

#17 of 104 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted July 12 2014 - 11:10 AM

Specifically for my case, I've got SVS MTS, which is the discontinuted mid-range line, replaced by the current Ultra. If I pursued Atmos, I'd have to email SVS and get input. Maybe see if I could find some MTS bookshelf on eBay.Technical question: in another thread, Ron posted the press release for an Atmos 5.1 speaker system. How is Atmos 5.1 different (better) than DD 5.1?It's pretty unlikely I'd try for an Atmos setup. But it's not impossible. I hope to setup a basement system in a year or two. It's pre-wired for 5.1. I'd grind my teeth over 'wasting' that and adding more external wire for a 7.1-ish system. But if Atmos is a worth it, it's doable for me. Particularly ceiling mounted, I think I could pull that off without disrupting nominal plans for the basement. And I can justify a new AVR when the time comes.

#18 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 12 2014 - 11:20 AM

There is "confusion" already...(Thanks Dolby)...

 

A 5.1 Atmos system is still 7.1(height). The height channel also connects to the front channel speaker(which is what is billed as the Atmos Enabled).

 

You either buy 5.1(really 7.1) Atmos Enabled...

 

Or you buy 5.1 and an additional 2...of, pretty much, whatever you want.

 

I'm waiting on the day Magnepan has to explain that "you hang the panel on the ceiling".



#19 of 104 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 12 2014 - 11:26 AM

Wow...that is a thought.

 

Salivating(and hiding my credit card)...

 

Buying an all new speaker set of Magnepan. With minimal moving around....

 

I could do six 1.7, one MMG-C and six* MMG-W...(*depending if I wire IIz/DSX height separate from Atmos...still have yet to answer that one)



#20 of 104 OFFLINE   DanH1972

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Posted July 12 2014 - 11:52 AM

There is "confusion" already...(Thanks Dolby)...

 

A 5.1 Atmos system is still 7.1(height). The height channel also connects to the front channel speaker(which is what is billed as the Atmos Enabled).

 

You either buy 5.1(really 7.1) Atmos Enabled...

 

Or you buy 5.1 and an additional 2...of, pretty much, whatever you want.

 

I'm afraid that I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. 

 

5.1 with two additional ceiling speakers is 7.1 in a way, but not in the 7.1 sense you might think (where the extra two are back wall surrounds).  Two different quadrants of sound information.

 

5.1.2 and 5.1.4 will have the information dedicated to the stereo rear wall surrounds folded into the side surrounds just as before.  The .2 and .4 Atmos "channels" are for the VOG ceiling speakers (stereo pairs as well) with separate sounds anchored at or panned to or panned around those locations for stuff that's supposed to go above your head.  







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