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A few words about...™ Oklahoma! -- in Blu-ray

Blu-ray Fox A Few Words About

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#41 of 458 OFFLINE   JoshZ

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Posted May 12 2014 - 12:32 PM

I'm well aware of the different licensing agreements.  When you say that "Blu-ray catalog title sales are in the toilet right now.", while correct, it is companies like Sony that flushed that toilet.  I can assure you that the titles that Twilight got would NOT have wound up in Walmart's $5 pile.  If they used their DVD release sales as a barometer, they're making a BIG mistake.

 

DVD sales from how long ago?

 

I don't particularly care for the way that most of the major studios treat their catalog product either, but it is a fact that movies like Pal Joey, Picnic or The Way We Were do not sell well on Blu-ray. They just don't. The primary audience for these movies is older viewers, who generally are not as fussy about the difference between DVD and Blu-ray, and don't like having to re-buy movies they already own on one format.


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#42 of 458 ONLINE   David Weicker

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Posted May 12 2014 - 01:35 PM

I keep reading about how Blu-Ray sales are down, and how Catalog titles are further down. But where is this documented?

I've seen multiple posts repeat it (and repeat, and repeat), but I've also seen posts where it's stated that studios don't release sales figures on individual titles.

How many units did something like Grand Hotel, or Best Years Of Our Lives, or Singin' In The Rain actually sell?

Is there someplace that corroborates the 'bad sales' statement.

#43 of 458 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted May 12 2014 - 03:47 PM

So, the shot after the Intermission is incorrect on the blu?


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#44 of 458 OFFLINE   Retro00064

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Posted May 12 2014 - 04:26 PM

[...]  And there's simply NO reason that 'Oklahoma!' should receive anything less than a 5.0 for video.  [...]

 

In addition to the day-for-night scene appearing as day as previously mentioned, how about the fact that the restoration company has a revisionist stance toward imperfections in films that have always been there (e.g. the extra grain during optical effects and spots on the camera lens) and therefore revised those out, as reported in the article R.A.H. linked to earlier. As one who has a lot of respect for old films (and the medium of film) as the pieces of history that they are, revisionist digital enhancement like this annoys me. These imperfections don't fall within the filmmakers' intent, but they've still always been there and to remove them is to revise the film. If the studios want to release "how it should've been" revised versions like this, then they should do so *in addition to* faithful restorations, not instead of.

 

This is otherwise a really nice looking restoration, but due the aforementioned issues, it does not deserve a 5-star rating, as I see it.



#45 of 458 OFFLINE   Techman707

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Posted May 12 2014 - 06:41 PM

DVD sales from how long ago?

 

I don't particularly care for the way that most of the major studios treat their catalog product either, but it is a fact that movies like Pal Joey, Picnic or The Way We Were do not sell well on Blu-ray. They just don't. The primary audience for these movies is older viewers, who generally are not as fussy about the difference between DVD and Blu-ray, and don't like having to re-buy movies they already own on one format.

 

It's hard to agree or disagree with the statement that those titles don't sell well on Blu-ray when they were never available at "regular" prices.  While as a former film collector my collector's mentality FORCED me to purchase those titles, even though they are grossly overpriced (between 29.95 and 34.95 + oppressive shipping costs).

 

What bothers me is that they seem to quickly transfer real garbage to Blu-ray, so it's no wonder that sales are down....according to "them".  As I've said before, if they would transfer REAL blockbusters from the 50's, 60's and 70's, to Blu-ray in a timely manner, maybe the customers would still be alive to buy them.  If you ask me, this is just part of their agenda to justify eliminating DVD's and Blu-rays so they can sell nothing but streaming.  All I can say is good luck to them.

 

P.S. "The primary audience for these movies is older viewers, who generally are not as fussy about the difference between DVD and Blu-ray, and don't like having to re-buy movies they already own on one format."

 

I GUESS I'M ONE OF THOSE OLDER VIEWERS YOU'RE REFERRING TO.  FYI, some of these titles I'm on my 3rd and 4th copies before FINALLY getting a Blu-ray.  And in many of those cases, as I'm sure you're aware, the Blu-ray was (and still is) defective.  I also probably have the distinction of having the LARGEST defective Laser Disc Collection in the U.S. :)


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#46 of 458 OFFLINE   rayman1701

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Posted May 12 2014 - 08:27 PM

Well since it is hard to get exact data from the studios apparently, this site lists the top 100 blu-ray titles of 2013, and if this list is anywhere close to accurate, catalog sales just are not there. Very few catalog titles made the list, which is sad to see.

http://www.the-numbe...uray-sales/2013


I don't know if there is a way to get the breakdowns of the VideoScan (or whatever the SoundScan for video sales is called) data to at least get an idea of how many units are sold. Like I said I don't know how accurate this site is, but you wanted some data, so here is some data.

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#47 of 458 ONLINE   David Weicker

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Posted May 12 2014 - 08:50 PM

Well since it is hard to get exact data from the studios apparently, this site lists the top 100 blu-ray titles of 2013, and if this list is anywhere close to accurate, catalog sales just are not there. Very few catalog titles made the list, which is sad to see.

http://www.the-numbe...uray-sales/2013


I don't know if there is a way to get the breakdowns of the VideoScan (or whatever the SoundScan for video sales is called) data to at least get an idea of how many units are sold. Like I said I don't know how accurate this site is, but you wanted some data, so here is some data.

 

So, five of the top 100 are catalog titles.  I'm not surprised to see newer titles in this list.   Newer titles are actually in stores, and are advertised.   Customers are given a chance to purchase them on impulse (or at least know they are available).    Most catalog titles are basically kept a secret.   The catalog titles that made it to this list were advertised and stocked by retailers.

 

And to make the top 100, you need at least 200,000 units.    But that leaves an awfully large gap between 200,000 and the TT 3000 model.    I'm curious where most catalog titles land?



#48 of 458 OFFLINE   Cineman

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Posted May 13 2014 - 05:25 AM

So, five of the top 100 are catalog titles.  I'm not surprised to see newer titles in this list.   Newer titles are actually in stores, and are advertised.   Customers are given a chance to purchase them on impulse (or at least know they are available).    Most catalog titles are basically kept a secret.   The catalog titles that made it to this list were advertised and stocked by retailers.

 

Also, just grabbing the top 3 catalog titles on the list, The Little Mermaid, Peter Pan, and The Sound of Music (although I believe this same point can be made about all of the catalog titles on the list); All three were previously available on VHS, Laserdisc and various DVD versions and I'm guessing many of today's Blu-ray buyers bought them in at least two of those previous incarnations. Yet, people in large numbers still felt they needed to buy them again on Blu-ray just last year. Were children demanding better pic and sound for their Mermaid and Peter Pan enjoyment than offered by their DVDs of them sitting on the living room shelf?

 

I think that list of recent Blu-ray sales suggests at least in part what you posted, that a lot more catalog titles would be sold on Blu-ray (I believe more than 3000 across the country for many, many titles) as an upgrade to the previous versions if consumers saw them at their local Best Buy and were given the opportunity to pick them up on impulse rather than having to follow Internet sites like this one to even know an upgrade exists and then sign up with Twilight Time, put their credit card number online and have one shipped to their home. 



#49 of 458 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted May 13 2014 - 05:35 AM

Titles like "The Sound of Music" and all the animated Disney evergreens sell repeatedly over the years largely because they appeal to younger children.  Many of these bluray sales are not repeat purchases from earlier video formats, but rather purchases by parents who want to give their younger children wholesome entertainment to watch.  It's the same reason Disney brought all their classic titles back to theatres every seven years.  Every seven years there is a new audience for these titles.

 

Conversely, titles whose main demographic is the over-50 crowd are probably a tougher sell, because the over-50 audience already had them on VHS, laserdisc and DVD and we all know that DVD is good enough! ;)


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#50 of 458 OFFLINE   John Maher_289910

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Posted May 13 2014 - 05:51 AM

Disney has done a deplorable job of releasing quality prints of their non-animated titles, which, I suspect would fall into the same category as other studios catalog for the over-50 crowd.  Today's kids would not be as enamored with THE MOON-SPINNERS, ALMOST ANGELS, BON VOYAGE! or EMIL AND THE DETECTIVES as I was as a kid.


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#51 of 458 OFFLINE   Will Krupp

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Posted May 13 2014 - 06:57 AM

Disney has done a deplorable job of releasing quality prints of their non-animated titles, which, I suspect would fall into the same category as other studios catalog for the over-50 crowd.  Today's kids would not be as enamored with THE MOON-SPINNERS, ALMOST ANGELS, BON VOYAGE! or EMIL AND THE DETECTIVES as I was as a kid.

 

How weird of you to mention the MOON-SPINNERS, John, as I was in the mood and just watched my old (unforgivably panned and scanned) DVD copy of that this weekend.  I was craving Hayley Mills so I paired it with TROUBLE WITH ANGELS.

 

What are the chances?


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#52 of 458 OFFLINE   Danny Burk

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Posted May 13 2014 - 07:14 AM

How weird of you to mention the MOON-SPINNERS, John, as I was in the mood and just watched my old (unforgivably panned and scanned) DVD copy of that this weekend.  I was craving Hayley Mills so I paired it with TROUBLE WITH ANGELS.

 

What are the chances?

Funny that this came up. I've been wanting to see it for Pola Negri's last performance. Does she have much screen time?



#53 of 458 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted May 13 2014 - 07:23 AM

Funny that this came up. I've been wanting to see it for Pola Negri's last performance. Does she have much screen time?

She's prominent in the last twenty minutes or so.  When she finally does make an appearance late in the movie, she shamelessly steals the whole thing.  I haven't seen the movie in years, but I do remember at one point, Hayley Mills is pleading with her over something, and she just rolls her eyes as if commenting on Hayley's acting.


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#54 of 458 OFFLINE   John Maher_289910

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Posted May 13 2014 - 08:17 AM

So, the shot after the Intermission is incorrect on the blu?

Yes, it is.  The entire sequence going to the box social is broad daylight instead of dusk.


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#55 of 458 OFFLINE   John Maher_289910

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Posted May 13 2014 - 08:19 AM

How weird of you to mention the MOON-SPINNERS, John, as I was in the mood and just watched my old (unforgivably panned and scanned) DVD copy of that this weekend.  I was craving Hayley Mills so I paired it with TROUBLE WITH ANGELS.

 

What are the chances?

I watched both, last week.


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#56 of 458 OFFLINE   Will Krupp

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Posted May 13 2014 - 08:25 AM

I watched both, last week.

 

 

Mind....blown  :wacko:



#57 of 458 OFFLINE   Cineman

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Posted May 13 2014 - 05:53 PM

Titles like "The Sound of Music" and all the animated Disney evergreens sell repeatedly over the years largely because they appeal to younger children.  Many of these bluray sales are not repeat purchases from earlier video formats, but rather purchases by parents who want to give their younger children wholesome entertainment to watch.  It's the same reason Disney brought all their classic titles back to theatres every seven years.  Every seven years there is a new audience for these titles.

 

Conversely, titles whose main demographic is the over-50 crowd are probably a tougher sell, because the over-50 audience already had them on VHS, laserdisc and DVD and we all know that DVD is good enough!  ;)

 

I see your point. I know there is no way to run a test like this, but it is possible if a Blu-ray of The Little Mermaid was quietly released on Twilight Time with zero general public fanfare about it, those parents would probably just show their younger kids the DVD version of it they likely already owned anyway (if they cared enough about it to show their kids) and TT would still be sitting on 500 copies of it for $39.99 in their warehouse. The other half of the test would be to feature a stack of Mysterious Island Blu-rays on an end cap at a half dozen Best Buys with a "First Time on Blu-ray! $19.99!" sign and see how many they would sell.

 

With the advent of online distribution and less reliance on brick and mortar, there are generations of point-of-sale merchandising tactics that have probably been forgotten but used to sell tons of product merely by dint of someone knowing how to show and sell them. "Stack 'em high and watch 'em fly" was an oldie but goodie. Sometimes all it takes is for an item to be featured on the sales floor with a light pointing at it to generate interest and actual money transaction sales from folks who were just passing by on their way to pick up a roll of scotch tape. But at places like TT...there is no casual traffic, there is no "floor". lol!


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#58 of 458 ONLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted May 13 2014 - 07:12 PM

We don't need such a test...it already exists...and has for years. Take your pick among stores...the end caps of our local Best Buys, HMVs, and Future Shops are crammed with quality catalogue Blu-rays priced from $4.99 to $7.99...sometimes steelbooks for $9.99! And yet they just sit there with little apparent movement...week...after week...after month.

 

This was unheard of at the height of DVD. Those shelves would have been cleaned out before the flyer was even dry. Often you'd see a complete turnaround of titles in those end racks before the month was out. Now, some titles have practically become a store fixture.

 

Conventional retail just aint doin' it anymore...



#59 of 458 OFFLINE   Cineman

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Posted May 14 2014 - 03:05 AM

We don't need such a test...it already exists...and has for years. Take your pick among stores...the end caps of our local Best Buys, HMVs, and Future Shops are crammed with quality catalogue Blu-rays priced from $4.99 to $7.99...sometimes steelbooks for $9.99! And yet they just sit there with little apparent movement...week...after week...after month.

 

This was unheard of at the height of DVD. Those shelves would have been cleaned out before the flyer was even dry. Often you'd see a complete turnaround of titles in those end racks before the month was out. Now, some titles have practically become a store fixture.

 

Conventional retail just aint doin' it anymore...

 

But we haven't seen those first-time-on-Blu-ray $39.99 Twilight Time catalog titles on Best Buy end caps for $4.99 to $7.99. 


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#60 of 458 OFFLINE   John Maher_289910

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Posted May 14 2014 - 04:50 AM

Yes, but we don't have access to Twilight Times end caps.







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