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While we wait for A few words about...™ The Rodgers & Hammerstein Collection -- in Blu-ray

Blu-ray Fox A Few Words About

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#581 of 868 ONLINE   Doug Bull

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Posted May 03 2014 - 06:03 PM

Hey Anthony,

I don't wish to spoil your excitement, but what if Monday is not a van delivery day in your area?  :(

It has happened previously to me down here on the Peninsula.

 

Though I'm sure it will be a case of ".... Oh what a Beautiful Day....The parcel is coming my way." 

 

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Anthony's neighbourhood (just around the back of that Mountain) as seen from my house.

He'll be sitting at his window on monday just looking and waiting for that little white courier van. :) (likewise)

 

Doug.


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#582 of 868 OFFLINE   Eastmancolor

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Posted May 03 2014 - 06:26 PM

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Areas like original color balance of a film are not totally a matter of opinion even though they are tricky.  Three points:

 

1.  There is a reasonable range for differing opinions.

2.  Beyond that range, opinions are not reasonable.  This is a statistical matter to some extent. 

3.  Most importantly, there are ways to narrow if not resolve the disagreement in a scientific manner.

 

Some things we can do:

1.  Consult a number of people who saw it in original release. 

2.  Consult original dye-transfer prints if they exist.  [I understand that The King and I had dye-transfer TRAILERS, does anyone have one?]

 

This is not just a matter of opinion or consulting an oracular authority to decide the matter.  It can be handled rationally and scientifically.

 

Deluxe farmed out their 16mm printing to Technicolor during the mid-1950's and quite a few 16mm CinemaScope IB Technicolor prints of the full feature survive on THE KING AND I.  I have two friends who have prints.

 

Technicolor prints can vary, but the ones I've seen have good color balance and look quite nice.  They were made when the negative was new, so the color is beautiful.

 

Color and contrast in the 2005 HD streaming version is closest to the old IB prints, though the streaming version has much more detail, of course. 

 

I'm a big fan of most of the catalog titles that have hit Blu-ray, including the often talked about BLUE MAX, but going forward I will prefer to watch the streaming version of THE KING AND I over the new disc. 


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#583 of 868 OFFLINE   classicmovieguy

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Posted May 03 2014 - 07:09 PM

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I went to a charity booksale this morning and found these 2 treasures, from Fox Video's 1991 "Silver Anniversary" R&H range.

 

IMG_20140504_0001.jpg

IMG_20140504_0002.jpg


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"When I get a little money, I buy movies.  If there is some left over I'll attend to utilities and groceries".
 
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#584 of 868 OFFLINE   Jim*Tod

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Posted May 03 2014 - 07:16 PM

Still looking forward to Mr. Harris's analysis of the new transfers.  I just hope all the bickering in here has not made him decide not to put himself in the line of fire.



#585 of 868 OFFLINE   Will Krupp

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Posted May 03 2014 - 07:46 PM

Still looking forward to Mr. Harris's analysis of the new transfers.  I just hope all the bickering in here has not made him decide not to put himself in the line of fire.

 

Because he's such a shy and retiring fellow?  :D


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#586 of 868 OFFLINE   CMNash

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Posted May 03 2014 - 08:32 PM

I went to a charity booksale this morning and found these 2 treasures, from Fox Video's 1991 "Silver Anniversary" R&H range.

 

Thanks for posting those! I remember that set fondly. I was 14 when they came out, and remembered working all summer -- mowing lawns -- to buy them. I thought the cover art were cool. The older CBS/Fox VHS of The Sound of Music was from a publicity still (I think) of Julie Andrews on the hill, and the one of Oklahoma! was a faded publicity still of Gordon MacRae and Shirley Jones. Now that I think of it, that version of Oklahoma! was strange. It was the Cinemascope version; however, it had the Overture from the Todd-AO film. Near the end of the Overture, the Samuel Goldwyn logo came on, and then dissolves to the opening/main title of the Cinemascope version.


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#587 of 868 OFFLINE   classicmovieguy

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Posted May 03 2014 - 08:36 PM

I remember these fondly too, but never got the chance to own these particular editions until now.  The first time I was able to buy the R&H musicals on VHS was the "Gold Anniversary" set in 1995, which included bonus audio cassette soundtracks. 



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#588 of 868 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted May 03 2014 - 11:12 PM

I have a hard time thinking anybody can remember exact details from an original viewing, almost 60 years ago.


I have NEVER seen a print of a classic movie have colors as strange as these Screencaps of The King and I so if it had looked like that as a print I might remember ;)

#589 of 868 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted May 04 2014 - 01:42 AM

I have NEVER seen a print of a classic movie have colors as strange as these Screencaps of The King and I so if it had looked like that as a print I might remember ;)

I understand your position, but I'm inclined to think most of us wouldn't be able to do so about a print of a film they saw 60 years ago.  IMO, the passing of so much time, viewings of so many other films and even viewing of this particular movie on different video formats would cloud most of our memories from being the most accurate source of what that original print should look like.


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#590 of 868 OFFLINE   Billy Batson

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Posted May 04 2014 - 02:29 AM

Well I suppose I'm trolling a bit here, as I'll never buy this set. I'm not a big fan of musicals & the set hasn't been announced for UK release anyway. But I don't think you need an amazing memory or an unfaded print to know if these films look as they should. They should look...great. A true greyscale, rich vibrant picture with cherry reds, yellows, blues & greens. These are fifties colour musicals, there should be a wow factor, that's if the original negatives are in a good state & not faded of course!



#591 of 868 OFFLINE   Michael1

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Posted May 04 2014 - 04:41 AM

"A true greyscale, rich vibrant picture with cherry reds, yellows, blues & greens. These are fifties colour musicals, there should be a wow factor, that's if the original negatives are in a good state & not faded or course!"

 

Yes. To clarify what I wrote in an earlier post, being able to judge whether the color palette of a video transfer of a film looks "correct" or not is much easier to do in one direction than the other.

 

1) If the image seems to well represent all the parts of the color spectrum, and if there are no obvious issues in terms of flesh tones and whites (where it's clear the white is supposed to be pure), then you can make a fairly safe judgment that the color is "correct," bearing in mind that not all prints of movies had the some, exact color palette.

 

2) If the image has obvious issues in terms of flesh tones and whites (where it's clear the white is supposed to be pure), then you can make a fairly safe judgment that the color is incorrect"  in some way -- not enough red, not enough blue, and so on.

 

Doesn't that make sense?



#592 of 868 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted May 04 2014 - 05:21 AM

Well I suppose I'm trolling a bit here, as I'll never buy this set. I'm not a big fan of musicals & the set hasn't been announced for UK release anyway. But I don't think you need an amazing memory or an unfaded print to know if these films look as they should. They should look...great. A true greyscale, rich vibrant picture with cherry reds, yellows, blues & greens. These are fifties colour musicals, there should be a wow factor, that's if the original negatives are in a good state & not faded or course!

After watching The King and I BD, I experienced the wow factor during my viewing of it this morning as I thoroughly enjoyed this BD.  Anyhow, I had my say on this BD as everyone else is entitled to their respective opinion so I won't say anymore about The King and I.  On to the next titles from this box set. 


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#593 of 868 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted May 04 2014 - 05:24 AM

Oh!

 

I think I found it!

 

I had to go to Picture/Aspect Adjustments/HD Size and change it from Size 1 to Size 2.

 

Now I see the full image as represented in those screencaps.  :biggrin:

I played around with those two settings this morning during my BD viewing and I ended up using Size 2.


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#594 of 868 OFFLINE   warnerbro

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Posted May 04 2014 - 07:04 AM

I couldn't believe all I was hearing about THE KING AND I and CAROUSEL, then I watched them and was disappointed myself.  THE KING AND I is almost unwatchable.  It has a smudged look with a turquoise and brown color scheme to it.  So many of the Fox blurays from the 50s have that brown and turquoise color.  CAROUSEL is far too dark.  The DVDS of both of these look better than the blurays unfortunately.  Everything everyone is saying about OKLAHOMA! is true.  The Todd-AO does look like 3-D -- like you're looking out a window.  The cinemascope OKLAHOMA! looks excellent, as well.  I also wonder if they will issue replacements for THE KING AND I and CAROUSEL.

 

I'd love to know what Robert Harris thinks about THE KING AND I and CAROUSEL.


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#595 of 868 OFFLINE   Jefferson

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Posted May 04 2014 - 07:43 AM

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So many have that "blue hue" only in blu-ray transfers.  Why was the previous transfer of King and I on dvd so glorious and beautiful looking  in its color scheme I wonder?  I am not being sarcastic.  I really want to know how a previous transfer looks as good as the dvd of King and I did, and looks so completely different in every regard in a blu-ray transfer.  When these are done, does the team even look at the previous master?  How does this type of thing happen I wonder?  I will also take bets here that absolutely nothing will ever be done to correct what looks to my eyes like a complete error.  We are stuck with it.


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#596 of 868 OFFLINE   CMNash

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Posted May 04 2014 - 08:26 AM

So many have that "blue hue" only in blu-ray transfers.  Why was the previous transfer of King and I on dvd so glorious and beautiful looking  in its color scheme I wonder?  I am not being sarcastic.  I really want to know how a previous transfer looks as good as the dvd of King and I did, and looks so completely different in every regard in a blu-ray transfer.  When these are done, does the team even look at the previous master?  How does this type of thing happen I wonder?  I will also take bets here that absolutely nothing will ever be done to correct what looks to my eyes like a complete error.  We are stuck with it.

 

Considering that Fox will release The King and I as an individual blu-ray in October, they have approximately 4-5 months to do something about it, if they wish. I suspect sales of the complete collection will be significantly smaller than sales of the individual films. It would be strategic of the studio to follow up on constructive criticism in order to improve or secure future sales.



#597 of 868 OFFLINE   bryan4999

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Posted May 04 2014 - 08:42 AM

So many have that "blue hue" only in blu-ray transfers.  Why was the previous transfer of King and I on dvd so glorious and beautiful looking  in its color scheme I wonder?  I am not being sarcastic.  I really want to know how a previous transfer looks as good as the dvd of King and I did, and looks so completely different in every regard in a blu-ray transfer.  When these are done, does the team even look at the previous master?  How does this type of thing happen I wonder?  I will also take bets here that absolutely nothing will ever be done to correct what looks to my eyes like a complete error.  We are stuck with it.

 

The current hi-def version of K&I on Vudu and itunes looks great also. Something had to have gone wrong in the blu-ray mastering process.



#598 of 868 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted May 04 2014 - 09:51 AM

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I think Fox is taking the name "Blu-ray" a bit too literally.


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Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then.


#599 of 868 ONLINE   Doug Bull

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Posted May 04 2014 - 03:02 PM

It's now 9am Monday May 5th here in a wet and cold Melbourne.

Latest up-date is that it's on the Delivery Van for today.

 

Counting the Hours and Minutes.

 

"And I still find it so hard

To say what I need to say

But I'm quite sure that you'll tell me

Just how I should feel today"

 

Will this turn out to be a "BLUE MONDAY"   ;)

 

Doug.



#600 of 868 OFFLINE   rsmithjr

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Posted May 04 2014 - 03:51 PM

Deluxe farmed out their 16mm printing to Technicolor during the mid-1950's and quite a few 16mm CinemaScope IB Technicolor prints of the full feature survive on THE KING AND I.  I have two friends who have prints.

 

Technicolor prints can vary, but the ones I've seen have good color balance and look quite nice.  They were made when the negative was new, so the color is beautiful.

 

Color and contrast in the 2005 HD streaming version is closest to the old IB prints, though the streaming version has much more detail, of course. 

 

I'm a big fan of most of the catalog titles that have hit Blu-ray, including the often talked about BLUE MAX, but going forward I will prefer to watch the streaming version of THE KING AND I over the new disc. 

This is precisely the kind of information I was hoping for, THANK YOU!







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