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Previously enjoyed DVD and Bluray Surface Error checking


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#1 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 06 2014 - 02:16 AM

(forgive it this question has already been answered, I searched and didn't see....)

 

I bought several boxes from a local video store clearing out stock.  Goods ones too!  Some were probably cleaned up with a buff thingie. Some scratches, some with removable "stuff" (smudges, fingerprints, sticky mystery food, some I'll have tested in a lab later, etc...) 

 

I'm using EMSA diskcheck to scan the surfaces.   The amount of scratches, unremovable stuff, doesn't seem to matter.  Some are going to show errors no matter what.   

 

Question..   Anyone know how reliable EMSA is?  I've found that when I have a flawed one, such as ...say Universals Hammer Collection that skipps and spudders, etc...  it will catch the errors on those. 

 

Biggest question though is can you put DVDs and blu rays (since I can't use my PC for blus) in my player and fast forward from the beginning of the disc to the end will it check all the data on the discs unless it hits an error?  Some errors just stick for a little bit then continue?    Is the laser always seeing 100% of the discs data or just skipping through?  It does look like it's skipping through on the TV screen. 

 

The DVDs were a dollar, the blu rays $2. So it's no great loss. But I did get quite a crazy tall stack of carefully selected gems... well, mostly.  Anyone ever seen Black Supaman?  :P  


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#2 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 05:36 AM

(As an aside).

 

Not all bluray/dvd rom drives are created equally.

 

Awhile ago I picked up a Lenovo external dvd-rom drive as an impulse buy.  (I was looking for a secondary drive in case my pc's internal drive died).  This Lenovo dvd-rom drive can read through tons of basketcase dvd discs, which my internal dvd-rom drive choked on previously.



#3 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 05:47 AM

(since I can't use my PC for blus)

 

In the case of checking bluray discs, I use a program that reads an entire bluray disc and writes it into a single giant *.iso file and does not perform any decryption.  Assuming the movie companies are not using bad-sector protection schemes for bluray discs, the program should be able to read every sector on a bluray disc (without decryption) without any choking.
 

The same thing can be done for dvd discs.  Though it is easier to just use a ripping program that can rip an entire dvd disc into an *.iso file.  In iso ripping mode, a ripping program reads every sector on a dvd disc.  (With or without decryption).



#4 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 05:51 AM

I'm using EMSA diskcheck to scan the surfaces.   The amount of scratches, unremovable stuff, doesn't seem to matter.  Some are going to show errors no matter what.   

 

Question..   Anyone know how reliable EMSA is?  I've found that when I have a flawed one, such as ...say Universals Hammer Collection that skipps and spudders, etc...  it will catch the errors on those. 

 

Are you finding a way to get around bad sectors?



#5 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 06:04 AM

Biggest question though is can you put DVDs and blu rays in my player and fast forward from the beginning of the disc to the end will it check all the data on the discs unless it hits an error?  Some errors just stick for a little bit then continue?    Is the laser always seeing 100% of the discs data or just skipping through?  It does look like it's skipping through on the TV screen. 

 

Personally, I don't bother doing this.

 

In practice, I find this is unreliable as a method for finding bad sectors.  Also it takes a lot longer in many cases, than using the computer.  On my present computer setup, it only takes 11-12 minutes to rip an entire iso of a dvd disc and around 30-45 minutes to rip an entire iso of a bluray disc (without any decryption).



#6 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 06 2014 - 06:26 AM

jcroy, thanks for the comments. 

 

Having multiple drives and players is a good idea. 

 

I read that PC drives can often show no problem while an actual DVD/Blu ray player does, with the same disc. 

 

making a copy of the disc sounds like a great idea too.  I don't have a bluray drive in my PC at this time. 

 

I can't skip bad sectors, but often I can have a scratched up DVD that runs flawlessly in my player, or one that looks fairly clean but skips, sputters, etc. 

 

I would use fast forward on the middle speed, and it actually just takes 5 minutes or so to get to the credits.  I need to test this much more. 

 

Well, since the DVDs were only $1 and the blurays were $2 I can afford to lose a few.  I just watch 3 films, all DVDs, they ran flawlessly even the one I mentioned before that had a error on it according to EMSA. 


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#7 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 06:37 AM

I read that PC drives can often show no problem while an actual DVD/Blu ray player does, with the same disc. 
 

 

Definitely.

 

I have numerous dvds and a few blurays which had playback problems on my standalone dvd and/or bluray players, but which the computer can read fine without any problems.  For these "schizophrenic" discs, I just rip them to iso files on the computer and watch the iso file content with the computer connected to my large screen tv via hdmi.


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#8 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 06:43 AM

I can't skip bad sectors

 

I use the isopuzzle program for the baseketcase discs.  (Isopuzzle doesn't perform any decryption).

 

What isopuzzle does is initially skip over the unreadable sectors at first.  Then it comes back later and attempts to read them again.  Frequently reading such bad sectors on a second or third run, can read them error free.

 

(For movie dvd discs, there's a few subtleties which have to be done for isopuzzle to work flawlessly).

 

Essentially isopuzzle puts together an iso file like a "jigsaw puzzle".


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#9 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 06:54 AM

On the other side of the coin, I've had a few dvd discs which play fine on my standalone dvd players but which choke on the computer dvd-rom drive.

 

These type of discs usually fit into one of two categories:

 

1 - The disc is using deliberate bad-sector protection schemes (such as Arccos).

 

2 - The dvd-rom drive is at fault.

 

 

For the first type of arccos style deliberate bad-sector type protection, the modern dvd ripping programs can defeat those type of schemes easily.  For quite a few of these deliberate bad-sector protection type discs, older ripping programs can rip the movie (and special features) parts of the discs.

 

The way deliberate bad-sector protection works, is that the deliberately sabotaged bad sectors are specifically sectors that a standalone dvd player will never read at all to begin with.

 

 

For the second type, I only found this out when I picked up that Lenovo external dvd-rom drive.  Not every drive is created equally.



#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 06 2014 - 09:07 AM

I didn't know there was such a thing as bad-sector protection schemes.  Very interesting. 

 

Well, I took one DVD and replaced it with another and that one is reporting an error too.  

 

VTS_01_4.VOB

 

At least EMSA doesn't stick on it.  So regardless the film should play okay with maybe a hiccup.  I think I'll watch it and see....

 

The movie is The Dead Inside from 2012.  Monarch Entertainment.  

 

Both DVDs had a few small scratches and that was it. 


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#11 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 09:23 AM

I didn't know there was such a thing as bad-sector protection schemes.  Very interesting. 

 

After the huge fallout with the Sony dvd release of the "Casino Royale" James Bond movie back in 2007, deliberate bad-sectors protection schemes have largely fallen by the wayside.

 

Alllegedly the deliberate bad-sector protection on this Sony released "Casino Royale" dvd was so bad, that the Casino Royale dvd discs would not even play at all on some Sony manufactured dvd players.

 

(Just read the the numerous 1-star reviews for the Casino Royale dvd at amazon).


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#12 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 09:30 AM

Well, I took one DVD and replaced it with another and that one is reporting an error too.  

 

VTS_01_4.VOB

 

At least EMSA doesn't stick on it.  So regardless the film should play okay with maybe a hiccup.  I think I'll watch it and see....

 

Sometimes hiccups on standalone players can happen during the transition from one layer to another on single-sided dvd-9 discs.

 

(A single-sided dvd-9 disc has two layers, while a single-sided dvd-5 disc only has one layer).


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#13 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 06 2014 - 11:59 AM

I just watched The Dead Inside and it played perfectly without any problem whatsoever.  

 

Mine hiccups badly on layer changes.  I'll always say "layer change!" when it happens.  Sometimes they put it in a good place and it's not noticable, which I like. 


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#14 of 22 OFFLINE   Josh Steinberg

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Posted April 06 2014 - 12:13 PM

After the huge fallout with the Sony dvd release of the "Casino Royale" James Bond movie back in 2007, deliberate bad-sectors protection schemes have largely fallen by the wayside.

 

Alllegedly the deliberate bad-sector protection on this Sony released "Casino Royale" dvd was so bad, that the Casino Royale dvd discs would not even play at all on some Sony manufactured dvd players.

 

(Just read the the numerous 1-star reviews for the Casino Royale dvd at amazon).

 

I remember that!  Within a couple weeks they had a replacement program, and they must've known they dropped the ball big time, because unlike pretty much every other replacement program I've ever done, they asked for practically no information, didn't require me to send anything in - basically just asked "full screen or wide screen?" and within a week I had a replacement.


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#15 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 12:22 PM

In terms of my computer setup, my internal dvd-rom drive is a generic Lite-On that came with the computer.  (My computer is a bottom of the line entry level machine from 2010, that I only paid around $600 back in mid-2010).

 

My Lite-On drives can read about 99% of the dvd discs I have without any problems.  This is what I mainly use, since it is an internal drive.

 

(If you purchased an inexpensive generic desktop computer in the last 5+ years, most likely it will have an oem Lite-On dvd drive).  Lite-On drives seem to have some problems with basketcase discs which are not scratched, such as some double-sided dvd-18 flipper discs that Universal used for a lot of tv show season sets around a decade ago.  (Such as the original dvd season sets of Knight Rider or The A-Team).

 

For the remaining 1% of basketcase dvd discs, I'll use my Lenovo, LG, or Samsung external drives.  (The Lenovo is the best for reading basketcase discs).

 

For example, I had one A-Team double-sided flipper disc which choked on the Lite-On drive.  But on the Lenovo, it reads it as if there's nothing wrong.  (Like a hot knife cutting through butter).



#16 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 06 2014 - 12:31 PM

I had problems with Snakes on a Plane too.  Wouldn't load in my player at all.  Returned the DVD and the replacement did the same.  I watched it on my PC and all was well.  I'll bet it had something like that on it. 


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#17 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 06 2014 - 12:37 PM

I had problems with Snakes on a Plane too.  Wouldn't load in my player at all.  Returned the DVD and the replacement did the same.  I watched it on my PC and all was well.  I'll bet it had something like that on it. 

 

New Line dvd titles from that time period, had an even nastier deliberate bad-sector protection than Casino Royale.  IIRC, it was unofficially and colloquially known as "puppetlock".  (I don't know if it ever had an official name).

 

Newer ripping programs can defeat this New Line scheme now.  But back then, movie companies were trying to come up with dvd copy protection schemes that would trip up then-popular ripping programs like "dvd decrypter".


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#18 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 07 2014 - 03:05 AM

I watched 5 of my purchases and didn't have a single problem.  My luck is never this good.  The rest will not work at all.  :P 


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#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Radioman970

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Posted April 08 2014 - 02:53 AM

Bumping this again for more opinions on fast forwarding as a check for problems on discs.  Also, opinions on EMSA diskcheck.


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#20 of 22 OFFLINE   jcroy

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Posted April 08 2014 - 05:47 AM

VTS_01_4.VOB

 

For many dual-layer dvd-9 discs I have, the layer change is frequently in the middle of the VTS_01_4.VOB file.

 

In practice I've found that many dvd read errors on a dvd-rom drive, frequently occur around the layer change.


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