-

Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Multi-zone home theater


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#21 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 20 2014 - 07:43 PM

Sorry for the silly question but wouldn't you want to avoid connecting anything before the avr? The new integration I'll look at their site! I'm assuming the API allows you to control more options in different rooms?

#22 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 20 2014 - 08:20 PM

Sorry for the silly question but wouldn't you want to avoid connecting anything before the avr?

What would you be connecting "before the AVR"? clarify what you are confused about...cause in this situation, there is nothing at all, that could be "before the AVR".

 

 

The new integration I'll look at their site! I'm assuming the API allows you to control more options in different rooms?

API is the programming suite. It is merely the "code" used to create the control.



#23 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 21 2014 - 06:16 AM

I meant by plugging speakers into a switch we're not connecting directly into the AVR.  I understand the API part, i guess i'm not as certain as to the physical connections of it and the power required to go through.  Connecting through Crestron allows me to connect additional switches through the AVR and control as a separate surround sound is my thinking on that.

 

My Living room with the entertainment center is 14.1 X 18.5

My dining room is 13.8 X 11.6

My Dinnette is 6.8 X 11.5

My kitchen isn't big it's like the | part of the T while the dinnette is the T

Outside isn't big so one or 2 speakers should suffice.



#24 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 21 2014 - 06:39 AM

You are overthinking. Crestron is a whole home user interface. Think...networked remote control. It, technically, doesn't touch the content. As far as the actual speaker wire. You are the one that wants multi-zone. That isn't accomplished without plugging in switches. The only thing that complicates this is how many zones You want...and how are those zones powered. I design these things all the time and could care less If Control4, Crestron, Elan or any other hundred brands of this stuff is chosen. The fact you want digital content in your Zone 2(Zone 3 if you choose to spend extra) means you need a Denon or Pioneer AVR, if you want the AVR to stay under $1000. If you wanted, buy the Elite SC79. It should be selling around $2500 right now. Or the Denon 4520(refurbs of it have been under $1800). The 4520 and SC79 could run the entire show with no outside help...if you want to use your ipod/ipad/iphone or android phone/tablet or a Windows 8 PC. The The only thing those two AVR would need (at most) is a $200-ish 2x6 speaker matrix or (at minimum) 2 $20 speaker switches. The matrix would allow you to connect the two zones to it...and it gives added flexibility to control how those two zones are distributed to (up to) 6 areas. Meaning...1 source for all 6. 2 sources split 3 each, 1 doing 1 room, The other doing 2-6.

#25 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 21 2014 - 06:56 AM

By the way. I count 4 rooms.(not counting the theatre). There are so many ways to skin this cat... 2 zone with a 4 pair speaker switch. 3 zone with two 2 pair speaker switches 4 zone with one 2 pair speaker switch. Outside that... Want the AVR to power everything? Zone 2 requires a 7 channel. Zone 3 requires 9 Zone 4 "requires" 11* Those zones, on all AVR, can also be powered by their own amp(leaving the 5/7/9 alone for the main room) These AVR have Intelligent Amp Design (yes, that is a feature) allowing you to connect(If you bought the SC79) 13 total speakers, directly to it. That 13... 5.1 + 3 zones of speakers(notice that adds up to 11) where the Intelligent Amp Design kills your surround sound of the 5.1, giving you 3.1 and all three zones. Or if you connected 7.1 you'd only have 1 extra zone. But the AVR could take you to 5.1 to allow 2 powered zones.

#26 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 21 2014 - 07:08 AM

And lastly... If you choose to have your zones self powered... You could buy a basic 8 channel amp(these have existed for years) for $300-$1000. If you bought a Zone 2 AVR you simply buy a bunch of RCA Y cables to go from 2 to 8 and call it a day. Or there is the other extreme(and this would cost the same as your AVR)... A matrix 3 input 8 channel amp. Meaning, you buy a 4Zone AVR, connect all three of its multi-zone to it...it distributes those 3 zones to those 8 speakers however you want.

#27 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 21 2014 - 07:33 AM

Okay, I really appreciate all your help with this.

2 Zones is perfectly fine and being able to share them is the only requirement there, I think anything additional would be overkill. It's not so much I want digital as the connections I have are currently digital.  

 

The 3 pairs of speakers outside the home entertainment room ( 2 Dining, 1 Dinette / 1 Kitchen, 2 outside )go through the 4 pair speaker switch and powers the speakers.  That would all be plugged in to the AVR as zone 2 ( the connection I see on the Denon X3000 for that looks like a RCA connection?) 

 

The only thing I can think of in the future is adding something similar for my basement when i finish it but i don't really see the need to connect that all back to the same AVR.

 

I'm guessing if i pay around 1k for a AVR, 1.5-2k for the TV, that leaves 2-3K for speakers, wiring and any misc additions in what I originally figuring. Trying to keep my wife from killing me ;)

 

I have a family friend trying to get me to do Sonos but that system was going to cost minimum of 5K and not nearly as quality as i'm getting for the same with a real stereo system.



#28 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 21 2014 - 08:11 AM

The only amendment, the "1" speakers need to be single source stereo. Trying to wire in one speaker throws off the impedance matching in a speaker switch. If the wire is not ran to the spots where the "1" speaker is... Simpy buy 16/4 wire as opposed to 16/2 wire that goes to everything else. 16Awg is least wire I would use. 14 is more like it. The 2 and 4 simply refers to the strands in the jacket.

#29 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 22 2014 - 06:49 AM

My dinette is 13.8 X 11.6, in the middle of the room is the kitchen which is 6.8 X 10 roughly.  My thought was one speaker in the middle of dinette and then one in middle of kitchen as the "Pair".

 

Do you have a favored speaker ceiling speakers?  With the size of the rooms ( dining room being 11.6 X 13.8 ) do you think the pair is overkill?

 

I saw ProCinema has a system set for home entertainment that had okay reviews I was eyeing up but debating going separate parts route.

For outdoor speakers i was thinking of the Definitive Technology AW6500.



#30 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 22 2014 - 07:50 AM

Your choice. I would do a singe source stereo in both spots. Making on left and one right is doable. Flip a coin. Cost wise is a wash. Single source stereo cost the same as 1 speaker anyway. 16/4 wire, equal distance covered, costs an extra $2 per 10ft.

#31 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 24 2014 - 08:06 AM

would you recommend 14 over 16 for this AVR as far as the wiring goes?  I'm going to draw out the rooms to try to figure how much wiring i need to order



#32 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 24 2014 - 08:59 AM

Wiring has nothing to do "with the AVR" . It has to do with... Distance Ohm Power requirements

#33 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 24 2014 - 10:18 AM

Run down 1/3 of the page...

 

http://www.audioholi...ker-cable-gauge

 

Use the chart. The insertion loss and damping factors are...well...superfluous...



#34 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 25 2014 - 09:02 AM

Got it, thank you.  Most of the runs should be under 60 feet so maybe i'll just stick to 12 or 14 to be safe.

 

I was thinking of using the surround left/right in the ceiling itself due to having no real walls on the right/left side for which to use.  do you think this works okay as a solution?  or would front/back and maybe the surround on ceiling function as more like rain falling type sounds?



#35 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 25 2014 - 09:13 AM

The only other option is rear towers/bookshelf on a stand...



#36 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 27 2014 - 02:43 PM

What do you think of the Aperion audio systems?  I was thinking of the Intimus 4T Hybrid SD system for 5.1 and purchasing a pair of their ceiling speakers for the surround aspect.  I'd also use their speaker pairs for other rooms.  Judging by the power the range is a little higher than the X3000 supports, is that something to worry about?

 

Thanks



#37 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 27 2014 - 02:50 PM

What do you think of the Aperion audio systems?

Just another speaker company that makes good stuff.

 

Judging by the power the range is a little higher than the X3000 supports, is that something to worry about?

I don't even understand this question. What?

 Power range a speaker supports? That is not a spec...have no idea where that comes from.

 

 

Are you talking about the irrelevant spec of "recommended power"?

 

It is 25-150. That covers 95% of the amplifiers ever made...and will ever be made.

 

And even if it didn't...the 6ohm means you can run them with 99% of the amplifiers ever made(won't say 100%...cause I'm sure there is something out there that will upchuck its lunch on 6ohm).



#38 of 63 dlubrano

dlubrano

    Agent

  • 33 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 02 2014
  • Real Name:Dave

Posted March 27 2014 - 02:55 PM

For the cost do the measure up?

 

Sorry poorly worded, the range for some of them is 20-200 Watts, the amp's max per channel is 215 Watt's but the range i read some where was  30-105 watts.



#39 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 27 2014 - 03:03 PM

Power "range" is meaningless. It is merely a guide.

 

I've never heard them.

 

Would I pay $319(x2) for two 4" woofers and a bottom frequency of 60hz? No.

 

I'd rather buy something used...like this...

http://chicago.craig...4361232043.html



#40 of 63 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 13,182 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 27 2014 - 03:15 PM

I'm in love....

 

http://chicago.craig...4377480229.html ( I just left a msg)






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users