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#1 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 25 2014 - 11:05 AM

I'm thinking of upgrading an older receiver without HDMI to a new one. Is there much difference in the quality of the entry level receivers? I don't need networking, airplay, or any of that crap. I need a minimum of 3 HDMI inputs. I'm thinking of these:

 

1) Pioneer VSX-523 - $249

 

2) Yamaha RX-V375 - $199

 

3) Denon refurb from Accessories4less, which one unknown

 

Thanks.



#2 of 20 ONLINE   gene c

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Posted February 25 2014 - 05:09 PM

After a very quick check on the models you listed the Pioneer seems to have Standby pass-through. I didn't see it for the Yamaha. The Pioneer 523 has the standard version of MCACC which has a 5 band EQ and only one manual preset (the advanced version has 9 bands and 6 presets). I don't know much about the Yamaha 375 but it wouldn't surprise me if it's YPAO is a bit better then the the 523's MCACC.

 

The refurbished  Denon 1513 for $122 is pretty good but it doesn't have any room EQ. The Denon 1613 and E-300 for around $230 both have Audyssey MultEQ. My brother has the 1610 and it's a very nice budget receiver but I never cared for the setup and operation. To confusing.

 

All of these receivers are cutting corners to help keep the cost down.

 

In looking at these receivers, I'd look for a good used model from 4-3 years ago. Something like a Denon 1910/2110, Yamaha 667 or Pioneer 1018/Elite 03 or 23. You should be able to find them for around the same price as the models you listed. No warranty of course, but much better core performance. VBut I realize used isn't for everyone.

 

I have a an Elite VSX-23. Excellent avr. I'm replacing it with a SC-25 I got a real good ebay deal on.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 25 2014 - 05:43 PM

The Yammy 475...adds... Discrete audio output Standby passthrough I'd look for an older Denon 591.

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 25 2014 - 07:35 PM

The Yammy 475...adds... Discrete audio output Standby passthrough

 

 

Thanks guys.

 

What do you mean by "Discrete audio output"? If you mean discrete amps, they both have that feature.

 

I forgot to say that I want 3D and 4K Pass-thru for the future, so an older receiver won't work.  



#5 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 25 2014 - 10:12 PM

The 375 uses IC amps. Unless they changed the specs since last March.

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 25 2014 - 10:14 PM

HDMI 1.4 has been out 4 years. Onkyo back to X08 and Denon back to XX11/X91 1911 and 1912 are plentiful.

#7 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 25 2014 - 11:45 PM

The 375 uses IC amps. Unless they changed the specs since last March.

 

I just double checked their website under "Features". It says the 375 uses "discrete amp circuit design". The Pioneer does also, but I don't think it's worth $50 more.

 

The new receivers normally come out in March or April?



#8 of 20 ONLINE   gene c

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Posted February 26 2014 - 02:03 PM

And don't forget, Pioneer and most   :)  Yamaha's only allow one crossover setting for all speaker groups. MultEQ is better than the Standard version of MCACC. YPAO is probably a good alternative (again, not that familiar with Yamaha's :(  ). I'd also pass on the 523 at those prices. Entry-level Denon's look pretty decent on paper but would be tough for me to live with.

 

Can we ask what speakers you have and what receiver you're replacing?


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#9 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 26 2014 - 02:37 PM

Should also include the Onkyo RC330. Bought from A4L via Ebay, it was $129, with shipping, repeatedly. The 313 is still current and has the best amp section of the El Cheapo.

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 26 2014 - 04:36 PM

It would replace a JVC RX-7030 DD receiver, no HDMI. It's in our family room with a 55" TV, not our theater.

The speakers are Infinity Primus 163's(front 3) and 143 surrounds.

Sam, what's wrong with the discrete amps of the Yamaha 375?



#11 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 26 2014 - 04:47 PM

Nothing wrong with the discrete 375. Could have sworn it was still IC. If you check the review thread, could have sworn I brought it up way back when. So Yamaha probably forgot to initially include it as a spec. But(Back when), HDMI passthrough, discrete and networking were the steps. You still get passthrough...which you might want. Can't imagine there aren't any 475 refurb(haven't checked Yammy A4L in over a month...don't keep running tabs). Don't discount a HK 1650/1700 either.

#12 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 26 2014 - 05:22 PM

Thanks guys. The Onkyo 313 doesn't even have the auto speaker setup.

#13 of 20 ONLINE   gene c

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Posted February 26 2014 - 06:34 PM

You might need multiple crossover points with those 4" surrounds. But I'm sure that JVC had one crossover setting. Did it work for you? I'm guessing 80 or 100?

 

AC4L has the Yamaha 475, 473 and 471.

 

How did you get one 363 for the center? :)


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#14 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 26 2014 - 09:42 PM

The surrounds sound good to me, crossover set to 80.

 

The 163's are sold separately. At least they were when I bought them from Amazon.

 

I saw those 3 receivers at AC4L, but I don't need the extra features.



#15 of 20 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted February 27 2014 - 11:14 AM

I like the Denons on the cheap side.  I picked up a 1912 for my dad used and its a solid receiver.  I agree not the easiest to configure though.  I've bought from AC4L plenty of times too.


HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

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#16 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 27 2014 - 11:58 AM

I want a receiver with 3D pass-thru and 4K pass-thru though. These older receivers you guys are bringing up don't have those features, do they?



#17 of 20 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted February 27 2014 - 12:54 PM

I think the 1913 does, but I'm not sure about the 1912 (Dad doesn't have 3D).  Yamaha was the first one to have that and also standby video pass thru I believe, but I'll have to check the Denons.

 

*Edit - 1912 does:
 

3D Pass-Through: With the advent of 3D media, it is important to own a receiver that recognizes 3D video signals. The AVR-1912 is able to pass through 3D signals from your Blu-ray player, ensuring that the 3D effect doesn't get lost in translation. It also recognizes signals from 3D television broadcasts.

 

http://usa.denon.com...VR1912(DenonNA)


HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#18 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 27 2014 - 02:54 PM

I want a receiver with 3D pass-thru and 4K pass-thru though. These older receivers you guys are bringing up don't have those features, do they?


HDMI 1.4 debuted back at the Onkyo X08...So backtracking...

Yamaha
75,73/71 and 67(67 might be 1.3)
Pioneer
23/22/21/20
Onkyo
X2X/X1X/09/08
Denon
00/13/12/11(I think 10 is 1.3)


So. You have 4 generations.

#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Jim Mcc

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Posted February 27 2014 - 03:38 PM

HDMI 1.4 debuted back at the Onkyo X08...So backtracking... Yamaha 75,73/71 and 67(67 might be 1.3) Pioneer 23/22/21/20 Onkyo X2X/X1X/09/08 Denon 00/13/12/11(I think 10 is 1.3) So. You have 4 generations.

 

You're saying if it has HDMI 1.4, the receiver will pass thru 4K? If so, why don't the receiver manufacturers list 4K pass-thru in the specs/features?

 

For example, the Yamaha 471 and Denon 1613 don't list 4K pass-thru as a feature.



#20 of 20 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted February 27 2014 - 05:09 PM

Cause, at the time, 3D was the next big thing. 4K wasn't around.




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