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Going to 7.1: Do Surrounds need to be at ear level?


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#21 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 16 2014 - 02:39 AM

Robert,

 

Received the link.  Thank You!!!

 

The list of titles is just immense.  I knew sooner or later I would have to 

upgrade.  And, I can imagine, the step up from 5.1 to 7.1 must be a

dramatic improvement.

 

Plus, I constantly review Blu-rays that are in 7.1 but don't have the ability

to comment on the mix.  To date, everything has been downmixed to 5.1

 

This is the reason....no matter how I attempted to accomplish it....that an

upgrade was needed.

 

I will say that it was you that pushed me over the fence.  


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#22 of 52 schan1269

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Posted February 16 2014 - 08:36 AM

Ron, even if not your cup of tea...

The Guillotines(well go USA).

Sonic thrill ride doesn't describe it accurately enough.

#23 of 52 JohnRice

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Posted February 16 2014 - 08:52 AM

No need to apologize for Chicago.  It's one of the better surround movies, even if it isn't special effects and explosions.


The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#24 of 52 FoxyMulder

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Posted February 16 2014 - 09:48 AM

Chicago sounds superb, a great workout for all the speakers and a good movie too.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#25 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 16 2014 - 12:08 PM

The Guillotines(well go USA).

 

Schan,

 

Been looking at reviews.  Somewhat favorable, but all say the

7.1 mix is indeed outstanding.

 

It's $10.  Give me a couple hours -- a few glasses of wine with dinner --

I may just pull the trigger. 

 

Thanks for the recommendation.


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Ronald J Epstein
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#26 of 52 Gregg Loewen

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Posted February 17 2014 - 11:54 AM

hi Ron

Im not reading all the stuff in this thread.

 

The side and rear surrounds should be at 18-24 inches ABOVE your ear level. 


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#27 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 17 2014 - 12:08 PM

Gregg the sides and rears are about 18 inches above ear level

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#28 of 52 Gregg Loewen

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Posted February 17 2014 - 12:11 PM

thumbs up.


The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
Gregg's DVDs updated...sometimes
Lion Audio Video Consultants usually current


#29 of 52 JohnRice

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Posted February 17 2014 - 12:21 PM

Now I feel better...


The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#30 of 52 Gregg Loewen

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Posted February 17 2014 - 01:14 PM

TUMS ?


The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
Gregg's DVDs updated...sometimes
Lion Audio Video Consultants usually current


#31 of 52 Dougofthenorth

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Posted February 19 2014 - 04:05 AM

Here is a link for 7.1 DTS/LCPM/Dolby TrueHD   http://forum.blu-ray...ad.php?t=159814

 

Here is a list of DD 7.1 http://www.dolby.com...7-1-movies.html

 

I would also suggest you get a good BR disc with a favorite band's live concert & listen to that as well! :)

 

http://bluedvd.pl/ca...n/music-blu-ray

 

You also may find a personal preference to DTS vs Dolby encoding

- to a lot of people there is a noticeable difference.

 

DTS site http://www.dts.com/c...w-releases.aspx

 

I see the Jurassic Park discs are there in 7.1 DTS-HD MA !!


Regards,

 

Doug

 

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#32 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 19 2014 - 06:31 AM

Want to start with welcoming Doug to the forum.  Found out that he has been

building HT system and music conservatories in a professional capacity since

the late 70's.  He and I spent some time on the phone yesterday and he gave

me a great overview of how to properly set up my speakers...

 

....which, by the way, do jive with what Gregg Loewen suggested.

 

Anyway, Doug is going to be a huge asset to the speaker area of this forum.

Thanks for joining.

 

Finally got my speakers hooked up and calibrated using Audyssey on my 

Denon receiver.

 

Popped in Pacific Rim and was frustrated that there was no sound being 

directed to the rear speakers.  Didn't take long for me to think about going

into the menu setup.  Duh....these discs don't necessarily default to 7.1.

 

Listening to Pacific Rim, and then Chicago, I was able to faintly make out 

the sounds being encoded to those channels.  I realize that my setup is not

optimal, and as such, I have a feeling that the sides are canceling out the

rears as it's very hard to pinpoint where the sound is coming from.

 

Doug has urged me to drill holes and point the rears downward.  At some

point I may be forced to do that, or, if I can find a way to tilt the speakers

on the pole stand, that might work better.

 

I am glad I saved all the Dolby Digital and DTS demo discs that I had picked

up at trade shows over the year.  Found the Dolby Digital HD3 demo disc to

be the most impressive demonstration of 7.1 sound with its various music 

clips and even a scene from Transformers.  I was able to hear more precise

effect and musical instrument placement on those discs.  Of course, their 

bouncing sphere log with traveling female voice is kind of incredible to hear.

 

So, the 7.1 has turned out to be an enhancement, but thus far, I am not 

certain a huge one.  It seems like anything going to those rear channels is

being drowned out by the side ones.  However, when listening to the Dolby

Digital logo sequence, it seemed that the sound was evenly being distributed.

 

...and again, I know my setup is causing this problem.


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#33 of 52 Dougofthenorth

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Posted February 19 2014 - 07:36 AM

Thanks for the info & props Ron,

 

With your setup being new, under the heading of psychoacoustics, there is a natural process of the human ears/brain taking a length of time to be accustom to different & new acoustical environments.

 

Back in the 60's with the Dynaco 4 dimensional components, (Hafler circuit) they included material, explaining that it would take time for the listener to be able to pick up the differences.

I remember it being between 4 days to 2 weeks ??

I have always found this to be true to a certain degree, as I progressed to 11.1.    

Never say never, but I'm not going to 22.2 :lol:

 

Further, the auto equalizing programs YPAO, Audyssy & etc create different characteristics

liked or not by different people & in their physical environments.

 

I would give it a week or so. At some point it will be a huge difference.

If your system allows 5.1 to 7.1 matrixing - put on Saving private Ryan & Black Hawk Down & play the at reference levels :drum:

For music, the live concert HD discs are amazing!

Sanatana's Supernatural DVD-A is superb http://slowhandbcn.c...PERNATURAL LIVE

 

as is Eagles Farewell Tour live http://www.amazon.ca...farewell tour 1

 

As for setting up the initial settings, I try both auto & manual for a week or two, then select accordingly.

I find DTS the most "normal" out-of-the-box, as I do with (rarer) DD optimized for HT discs.

They don't suffer the "Dolby drop/boost" found on straight movie to disc soundtracks.

After you get it to your liking, you will then be trying out different DSP programs on your AVR for months or even to come.

 

On the deluxe version of the DVD Se7en (Brad Pitt), there was a fantastic extra explaining how movie sound tracks were re-engineered & optimized for home listening. http://Se7en (1995) - IMDb

- Extremely interesting for the layman & Pro if you never actually witnessed it.

 

Lastly, when the E & Q has being done at a reference level of say 86-89db, when you are playing back media at less than that level, you may have to tweak the center or rear channels to get the desired effect at normal listening levels. I call it the WAF Levels Setting :)

Your AVR may allow you to save various settings profiles.


Regards,

 

Doug

 

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#34 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 19 2014 - 07:47 AM

Doug,

 

Reading your response I would have no clue that you have any sort of history

with audio.   :D

 

Thank you for the explanation. Seems like I should be giving this a little more

time to sink in.

 

Was very excited about the Eagles Farewell Tour.  Thought it would be a great

7.1 disc.  But, I am not certain it is in 7.1 and perhaps that is one of the discs you

recommended to matrix (which I am uncertain my Denon does).

 

Not sure if the Canadian Blu-ray release is 7.1 (it doesn't say), as the American

counterpart is only 5.1.


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#35 of 52 schan1269

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Posted February 19 2014 - 10:25 AM

Ron...

All(at least I would hope all...not seen them all) 7.1 AVR have

DPL IIx
DTS Neo 6.

Those are added on to 2.0/4.0/5.1 discrete mixes.

Like DSX or IIz, they are an add on.

So when you move onto 9 channel in the future...

Watching the super bowl, you'd have...

DD DPL IIx DSX/IIz

#36 of 52 Dougofthenorth

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Posted February 19 2014 - 12:29 PM

Doug,

 

Reading your response I would have no clue that you have any sort of history

with audio.   :D

 

Thank you for the explanation. Seems like I should be giving this a little more

time to sink in.

 

Was very excited about the Eagles Farewell Tour.  Thought it would be a great

7.1 disc.  But, I am not certain it is in 7.1 and perhaps that is one of the discs you

recommended to matrix (which I am uncertain my Denon does).

 

Not sure if the Canadian Blu-ray release is 7.1 (it doesn't say), as the American

counterpart is only 5.1.

 

Your AVR can do:

 

Channel Processing  5.1 & 6.1 to 7.1

 

Dolby Pro Logic IIz - with Cinema, Music, Game Modes  

Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+ Decoding  

Dolby Digital Surround EX Decoding  

dts-HD Master Audio and High Resolution Decoding  

dts ES Discrete 6.1 Decoding  

dts Neo:X Matrix Upmixing  -
dts Neo:6 Stereo-to-Surround Cinema and Music Mode  

dts 96/24 5.1 for DVD-Video Processing  

Audyssey Dynamic Surround Expansion (DSX) Processing  

Pure Direct/Direct/Stereo Modes on Digital/Analog inputs  

Multi-Channel Stereo Mode  

Video Game Mode  

Mono Movie Surround Mode  

Rock Arena Surround Mode  

Matrix Surround Mode  

Jazz Club Surround Mode 

 

Bolded ones should get you a darn good sound from any 5.1 mix.

So the ones I quoted are fair game!!

 

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX AVR & it also does a spectacular job of creating a 7.1 environment so I expect your Denon to do likewise :)


Regards,

 

Doug

 

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#37 of 52 Ronald Epstein

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Posted February 19 2014 - 12:30 PM

Doug,

 

Thank you so very much for finding that out.

 

Any particular setting you would recommend in particular for 5.1 movies?


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#38 of 52 JohnRice

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Posted February 19 2014 - 01:33 PM

Welcome Doug.  Great info.


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The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#39 of 52 Dougofthenorth

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Posted February 19 2014 - 01:42 PM

Doug,

 

Thank you so very much for finding that out.

 

Any particular setting you would recommend in particular for 5.1 movies?

 

 

You paid for & built the sandbox, I merely suggested some parameters - I can't steal your experience :D 

(& my Z11 doesn't have some of your proprietary settings)

 

Put in a favorite media disc, grab the remote & go for it...   :3dglasses:  press & play!!!

 

PS the bolded ones ;)


Regards,

 

Doug

 

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#40 of 52 schan1269

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Posted February 19 2014 - 02:13 PM

Oh yeah, now I know why(the other day...) you sidestepped DSX/ IIz.

Not sure bi/do pole would work.

Although a forum member has stuck bi-pole up high(already had them).




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