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TV Shows that are unavailable to DVD due to music clearance BS


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#21 of 180 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted February 05 2014 - 11:48 PM

and yes frank and neil, i do think that the original music will one day come to us intact.

 

  Really? How? Care to elaborate how this will occur?


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#22 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 08:26 AM

hi neil,

 

i have already done so, quite a few times.

 

in fact, i stated it in the lhotp thread, right before the blu-rays were announced.

 

but it all comes down to one very simple thought - better to make something than nothing.



#23 of 180 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted February 06 2014 - 08:33 AM

Its also better to make nothing than to lose money as would be the case with many unreleased shows for various costs issue including music rights.


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#24 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 08:42 AM

LOL - agreed.

 

however, this thread is mainly about music issues keeping the show from being made.

 

and in that case, it is 100% the problem of music rights being too expensive.

 

so there is no real "actual" cost involved.

 

if i am a music rights holder, it is simply a matter of "how much" do i make.

 

and when i get older and a bit wiser and before i get one foot in the grave - i gonna figure out that it is better to make something than nothing.

 

i have said it many times and will say it again - wonder years will be out someday, UNCUT.  (assuming the film is still available) - the main reason i started the old thread about shows that have been destroyed.

 

i havent read much of it, but to my recall, there was very little primetime stuff that we do not still have.



#25 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 08:44 AM

sit back, enjoy the countless amounts of stuff that is already out there.

 

and life will come to you.  and you wont be watching the kettle boil !!



#26 of 180 OFFLINE   Ron1973

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Posted February 06 2014 - 09:09 AM

LOL - agreed.

 

however, this thread is mainly about music issues keeping the show from being made.

 

and in that case, it is 100% the problem of music rights being too expensive.

 

so there is no real "actual" cost involved.

 

if i am a music rights holder, it is simply a matter of "how much" do i make.

 

and when i get older and a bit wiser and before i get one foot in the grave - i gonna figure out that it is better to make something than nothing.

 

i have said it many times and will say it again - wonder years will be out someday, UNCUT.  (assuming the film is still available) - the main reason i started the old thread about shows that have been destroyed.

 

i havent read much of it, but to my recall, there was very little primetime stuff that we do not still have.

I've never been a huge fan of the show but for those who like it, I hope it comes out. Many said Batman would never be out and lo and behold it looks like we're going to get it. On the music side, many people predicted the Mother's Best shows with Hank Williams would never be out and we got it a few years ago.


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#27 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 09:24 AM

my only real concern is that while all the groups argue and pound their fists, etc. - the show quality is deteriorating or gets destroyed.

 

why i started the thread about them being destroyed.

 

i know a long while back, they had started transferring old shows that were starting to badly deteriorate.

 

and from my recall, we already lost a lot of old movies ?

 

it seems a shame to totally lose something simply cuz people are too greedy.

 

aesop's fables are the best human psychology ever.  there isnt anything we do that isnt encapsulated by at least one of them.

 

this particular moment reminds me of the pelican drawing pebbles from the pitcher. 

 

he has his beak filled with pebbles, but he cant remove it from the jar.  not until he learns that he must take just a few pebbles at a time.

 

i wasnt so sure about batman, cuz at the time, it was basically sold to the young boys.

 

but lhotp, wonder years, and many other wonderful shows will eventually be out.

 

but not until people are unwilling to pay for lesser releases.

 

a 31" screen wont come out while everyone is still willing to pay new bucks for a 29" screen.

 

i look to blu-rays not only for better pq, but more importantly for uncut output. 

 

at this point, they seem to give us unedited stuff when blu-rays come out - BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.  as i recently posted about a show called downtown abbey ?



#28 of 180 OFFLINE   smithbrad

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Posted February 06 2014 - 10:29 AM

 

if i am a music rights holder, it is simply a matter of "how much" do i make.

 

and when i get older and a bit wiser and before i get one foot in the grave - i gonna figure out that it is better to make something than nothing.

 

The logic is sound, but unfortunately DVD/Blu-ray aren't the only use for paying music rights. If it was, I would completely agree with you. Unfortunately, the "how much" do I make is tied to multiple revenue streams, and that may mean making more money by not selling low to meet the needs of a particular use that can't justify a higher expense. Sometimes selling fewer at a higher price point is better in the long run  than lowering the value and selling a few more at a lower price point.

 

 

i have said it many times and will say it again - wonder years will be out someday, UNCUT.  (assuming the film is still available) - the main reason i started the old thread about shows that have been destroyed.

 

I agree that Wonder Years will be out some day, but I can't agree on the UNCUT part. Take China Beach as a perfect example, even Time Life couldn't pull this off with a higher price tag to the release. They tried and it comes pretty close, but there are music replacements and cuts that they couldn't work out.  Both shows have an abundance of music to clear and there are just going to be some hold-outs that won't budge on lowering their costs.

 

i look to blu-rays not only for better pq, but more importantly for uncut output. 

 

at this point, they seem to give us unedited stuff when blu-rays come out - BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.  as i recently posted about a show called downtown abbey ?

 

I think the caveat with Blu-ray is that they have to go back to the original elements to produce HD prints for future syndication, and with that expense they might as well try to clear any rights issues at the same time. So the quick release to DVD of older syndicated prints would not apply. However, that does not necessarily mean revisiting rights issues. For example, CBS has been remastering to HD for what appears to be a majority of their shows. Some of these were released on DVD with some music replacements. I doubt they will go back and rework these just for a Blu-ray release. Maybe, if some were done in error, but I wouldn't count on Blu-ray releases to be automatic "fix-all" for all past issues.



#29 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 01:35 PM

The logic is sound, but unfortunately DVD/Blu-ray aren't the only use for paying music rights. If it was, I would completely agree with you. Unfortunately, the "how much" do I make is tied to multiple revenue streams, and that may mean making more money by not selling low to meet the needs of a particular use that can't justify a higher expense.

 

 

i wanted to get clarification, here.

 

are you saying that the rights to music is on an all or nothing basis ?

 

i was assuming (as an owner of a song) that i had the right to choose whomever i wanted to okay, on a case by case basis ?

 

in other words, i could charge more to one person than to another person, if i wanted ?



#30 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 01:36 PM

Sometimes selling fewer at a higher price point is better in the long run  than lowering the value and selling a few more at a lower price point.

 

 

this is true in most instances.  it is called selling to the wealthy before selling to the masses.

 

but i dont worry about this argument - time takes care of it.



#31 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 01:40 PM



I think the caveat with Blu-ray is that they have to go back to the original elements to produce HD prints for future syndication, and with that expense they might as well try to clear any rights issues at the same time. So the quick release to DVD of older syndicated prints would not apply. However, that does not necessarily mean revisiting rights issues. For example, CBS has been remastering to HD for what appears to be a majority of their shows. Some of these were released on DVD with some music replacements. I doubt they will go back and rework these just for a Blu-ray release. Maybe, if some were done in error, but I wouldn't count on Blu-ray releases to be automatic "fix-all" for all past issues.

 

as i found out with the one show, the blu-rays still had edited episodes.

 

but at least as far as i can tell, the overwhelming amount of blu-rays that have been put out, had stuff fixed when compared to the dvds.

 

this is the first thing i check before i buy - see what they say at amazon.  and make sure i am looking at a blu-ray post.  then i go to dvd-basen and look it up there, to see what it says.

 

that combined critique usually tells me just about everything i want to know.



#32 of 180 OFFLINE   MattPriceTime

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:05 PM

Chances are individual holders could make choices case by case, but given the natural thing that is greed, probably like the idea of a "all or nothing" basic price.

 

But regardless of anything else, terminology is always important here. Are some of these shows on DVD impossible? No. Are they based on precedent improbable? Yes. But things that are improbable are still possible. As we have seen in the last few years, things that once seemed improbable are now here/coming. And logic dictates if a bigger problem can be resolved, smaller ones would stand reasonable chances to do the same.


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#33 of 180 OFFLINE   smithbrad

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:20 PM

this is true in most instances.  it is called selling to the wealthy before selling to the masses.

 

but i dont worry about this argument - time takes care of it.

 

But they want to continue selling to the wealthy. This isn't a case of doing all of one and then the other. And to continue doing that it is best to maintain a price point. And time does not always take care of it. The songs in Wonder Years and China Beach are generally from the 50's through early 70's. Wouldn't time have already taken care of it, if it was going to after 50 years?

 

I'm not saying many won't be cleared, but what we are seeing is that not all will always be cleared. This is a pattern we are seeing on many releases that can't be ignored. And for song heavy titles the burden is going to be greater.  Your premise in theory is fine but it is too general and doesn't take into consideration all the variables in the real world.



#34 of 180 OFFLINE   smithbrad

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:24 PM

as i found out with the one show, the blu-rays still had edited episodes.

 

but at least as far as i can tell, the overwhelming amount of blu-rays that have been put out, had stuff fixed when compared to the dvds.

 

this is the first thing i check before i buy - see what they say at amazon.  and make sure i am looking at a blu-ray post.  then i go to dvd-basen and look it up there, to see what it says.

 

that combined critique usually tells me just about everything i want to know.

 

But in most cases I've seen revised DVD's were put out as well. So it wasn't necessarily that they were fixing things just for Blu-ray, but that in general either someone else picked it up, better prints became available, or the funds now supported doing more work. Moving to Blu-ray was just part of it.  An example would be to the new LHOTP release coming up.



#35 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:36 PM

once they sell lhotp to the wealthy, they arent gonna sell them again ?

 

all products are this way, in that they sell with the highest price they think they can - and then drop down to meet the masses.

 

when i was saying "time" - i did not mean to imply that patents/rights would run out - although i guess that could happen.

 

i was re-iterating my main statement - it is better to get something than nothing.

 

i have to disagree with your blu-ray statement.  it seems to be when they do fix stuff.

 

i think it would be more accurate to say - that once they decided to go to blu-ray, they fixed things up to justify the extra price.  and "fixed dvds" were simply a by-product.

 

there have been a lot of dvd re-releases where the product was not fixed, in terms of editing, etc.

 

so i have to think that the main thrust of getting un-edited episodes, etc. does come from the blu-ray release project.



#36 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:41 PM

lhotp fits my assumption better than it does yours.

 

for years there were complaints about the edits on lhotp.

 

no fixes on dvds.

 

the fix came when blu-rays came out.

 

in order to justify your theory,  one would have to come up with some fixes on new dvd releases when no blu-ray came out.

 

this has occurred from time to time.  i think the fugitive was fixed in this way.

 

but i do not think you will find it to be the norm.

 

and with a hugely popular show like the fugitive, they might  have figured it would be a no-brainer that people would buy the fixed dvds.  and then a few years later pay them again with blu-rays !!



#37 of 180 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:43 PM

i have decided to wait for the fugitive to come out on blu-ray.

 

even though it is my favorite show, i am more concerned with getting stuff that is not as popular.

 

there have been a lot of stuff released on dvd, that i dont necessarily think they will re-do for blu-ray.

 

sorta depends on the popularity of the show.



#38 of 180 OFFLINE   wack55

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Posted February 06 2014 - 02:45 PM

I want Quick Draw McGraw for MOD DVD release from Warner Archive.



#39 of 180 OFFLINE   smithbrad

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Posted February 06 2014 - 03:26 PM

lhotp fits my assumption better than it does yours.

 

for years there were complaints about the edits on lhotp.

 

no fixes on dvds.

 

the fix came when blu-rays came out.

 

in order to justify your theory,  one would have to come up with some fixes on new dvd releases when no blu-ray came out.

 

 

Actually, it fits mine quite nicely. The fixes came about because someone new took over the rights that could actually do something about it. The original DVD's everyone complained about were released on DVD by Imavision(?) using old syndicated prints. This new releases is by Liongate. It appears they were able to acquire uncut film elements and to make the best of it they are releasing on both formats to gain the most sales. The bigger factor for going HD is probably future syndication more than anything else.

 

New and improved versions on DVD is not that unusual either, why do you think there is such a term as "double dipping" used. It came about way before Blu-ray was even a standard.



#40 of 180 OFFLINE   smithbrad

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Posted February 06 2014 - 03:29 PM

i have decided to wait for the fugitive to come out on blu-ray.

 

 

I have no doubt "The Fugitive" will be released by CBS on Blu-ray. And as close as it is to matching the original airing I doubt any more improvements will be made. The music replacements in the latest DVD's will most likely be in the Blu-ray release as well.






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