Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.


Photo
- - - - -

Bias Lighting for a 65" Display?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#21 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 10:06 AM

 deleted



#22 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 10:12 AM

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]...wow...and I have a top calibrator recommending that I get[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]bias lighting.  So who do I believe?[/color]...

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]Since you asked, here is an updated partial list of other folks who have some experience with reference video imaging best practices[/color], who define, recommend, and/or use D65 bias lighting with their displays:

 

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE)
The International Organization for Standardization (ISO)
The International Telecommunications Union (ITU)
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Industrial Light and Magic (ILM)
The Imaging Science Foundation (ISF)
THX, Ltd.
Electronic Arts

deluxe
Technicolor
Microsoft Corporation
Image Entertainment
Universal Studios
PostWorks
The Criterion Collection
Joe Kane Productions
DisplayMate Technologies
CNET Labs
Radical Games
Factor5 Studios
High Moon Studios
CinRam
Rev13 Films
Advanced Television Evaluation Lab- Communications Research Centre- Canada
Apple Corporation
Filet Post Production
Post and Beam
Cheyenne Mtn. Entertainment
CBS Television
Deluxe Digital Studios
Splice Here
Slant Six Games
New Hat LLC
Roush Media
Samsung Germany
Digital Film Lab- Denmark
Nice Shoes, VFX New York
Desperate Housewives, Editorial
Rockhopper Post
Live Nation Studios
LionAV Consultants
Avical
Max Post
Bandito Brothers Studio
Chainsaw Edit
Twin Cities Public Television
Colorflow Post
ABC Television
The Moving Picture Company
Dolby Labs
Dreamworks Animation
University of Quebec at Montreal

Walt Disney Animation Studios

Goodwin Films

deTur Films

Rock Paper Scissors Post

Siren Studios

The Institution Post

Eclipse Post

Video Assist- Canada

Alter Ego Post- Canada

Digicom Video- Canada

Fragments/Megaphon- Norway

Local Hero Post

Newfoundland Independent Filmmakers Co-Op

Pinata Post

Tunnel Post

Houdini Post- Brazil

Bad Cat Films

LDS Motion Picture Studio

Pegasus Pictures- Iceland

Red Creek Productions- Costa Rica

Temple University

The Allotment- UK

Funimation Productions

OPM Consulting- Sweden

Keystone Entertainment- Canada

The Film Syndicate

Nicholas Wiesnet, DP

Eventure Entertainment

Nitrous, Ltd.

Postmenn- Norway

Screentracks, Inc.

Sixteen19 NY

Robot Post- Canada

Parktown Studios- Canada

Hybrid Films, Inc.

CVLT Production

NP Digital, Inc.

General Motors

Andrey Mesnyankin Producitons- Russia

Affect Studios

Afterimage Editorial

Nomad Editing

Lion Television

Post-Moderne- Canada

Sudio M- Canada

Flanders Scientific

Fancy Film

Final Feliz- Mexico

Screenday Productions- Germany

Seven Film & Post- Austria

Black Tie Studios

Pinto Pictures

Arts & Labor

Spledor Omnia- Mexico

Neuteck

Cutters Studio

Cathel Color Company

A & D Images

Illuminura Films- Brazil

TXL Films

Sancho Cine Digital- Chile

Accomplice Edit

Premier PR- UK

Frame- Denmark

Big Bang Post- UK

MTV

BLK MKT Digital

SIF 309 Film Music- Bulgaria

Goshen College

Take 2 Films- UK

Hedgehog Post- Lebanon

Salt Digital Studio

Prolounge- Sweden

Horizon Productions

Zoetrope/Aubrey Productions

Nigma Studios Digital- Mexico

School Of Visual Arts, NY

Rods & Cones VFX

Gray Matter Post

Red Line Studios

 

But what would they really know?



#23 of 50 ONLINE   Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul



  • 42,368 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted January 13 2014 - 10:15 AM

Yeah, pretty much seems like a no-brainer that I should do this.


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

 Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive Click Here for our complete DVD review archive

 Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule  Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#24 of 50 OFFLINE   schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert



  • 15,784 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted January 13 2014 - 10:35 AM

Bias lighting is the real reason automotive interiors are being lit up. Our '10 Subaru has a blue light at the interior map light aimed down at the console. The cupholders are also lit.

 

I can drive it hours longer, when dark, than I can to '06 Subaru.

 

There is only one negative to a bias-lit interior...



#25 of 50 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Moderator



  • 25,899 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted January 13 2014 - 11:01 AM

Yeah, pretty much seems like a no-brainer that I should do this.

Do whatever that makes you happy!

Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#26 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 11:07 AM

If you're happy with what you're seeing now, why mess with it?

Are you joking?



#27 of 50 ONLINE   Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul



  • 42,368 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted January 13 2014 - 11:20 AM

George,

 

Robert was giving me sound advice.

 

Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myself

are just curious.


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

 Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive Click Here for our complete DVD review archive

 Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule  Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#28 of 50 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Moderator



  • 25,899 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted January 13 2014 - 11:20 AM

Are you joking?

I'll refrain from replying to you and any further involvement in this discussion.

Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#29 of 50 OFFLINE   Type A

Type A

    Supporting Actor



  • 800 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 07 2007
  • Real Name:Ty
  • LocationPortland Oregon

Posted January 13 2014 - 12:07 PM

wow...and I have a top calibrator recommending that I get bias lighting.

 Since when does calibration to standards automatically equate to personal preferences? Especially in regards to Fl. 

So who do I believe?

Yourself.Ill bail out of this thread as well, you obviously have far more experienced folks than myself to help.
JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#30 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 12:14 PM

George,

 

Robert was giving me sound advice.

 

Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myself

are just curious.

Sound advice is a good thing.  After going back through all the posts in this thread, all I could find from Robert was a question.  Did I miss something?  I find it odd that a home theater forum moderator would question why someone would want better performance than what they are used to. 

 

Most video consumers lack a fundamental understanding of imaging science principles and video industry best practices.  TV manufacturers generally don't devote much effort in explaining the terminology, features, capabilities, and limitations of their products in the owner manuals.  After more than two decades since Joe Kane and the Imaging Science Foundation began educating the public and the industry about video performance, televisions still have a "brightness" control that adjusts black levels.  Confusion in this arena is still far too commonplace.  Video professionals have understood the importance of bias lighting in the viewing environment for well over half a century, yet, most video consumers do not correctly understand this simple technique.

 

Am I mistaken in assuming that folks generally come to this forum to learn better ways to experience movies in their home?  There is much misunderstanding, hyperbole, and sometimes even deception in articles and advertisements found in consumer electronics media outlets.  Unfortunately, consumers can form erroneous misconceptions and presumptions about video issues based upon such media exposure.  This forum, and others like it, came about so home entertainment aficionados could learn and share with one another better ways of enjoying home theater, etc.

 

Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

 

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"



#31 of 50 ONLINE   Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul



  • 42,368 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted January 13 2014 - 12:30 PM

George,

 

I can't speak for Robert.

 

However, I am assuming most consumers are happy with the quality of their display 

and have never heard of bias lighting.

 

Those who are just hearing of it now, may not be convinced or even think it necessary

to invest in such a product.  Not everyone is watching their display in a totally darkened

environment, or even getting eye fatigue.

 

You post some very convincing references.  There are many testimonials on Amazon from

actual owners of bias lighting who say that it does what promises.

 

Again, I am not speaking for anyone, but I believe that my original review of my display was

glowing. I never indicated problems with eye fatigue due to the brightness.  For all intents

and purposes, I was highly satisfied with my display.

 

...then suddenly I post a question about adding bias lighting.  I believe that warrants a reaction

such as "why change something you are happy with?" 

Personally, I am looking to experiment.  If I spend $30 on two light kits and I feel it does nothing,

I think the experiment was worth it.  However, I am pretty much certain that with your references

and the testimonials on Amazon, I am going to see an perceived improved performance from my display.

 

...and yes, the purpose of this forum is to help better the home theater experience for everyone.

However, keep in mind, everyone needs to make up their own mind as to whether they feel they

need to further improve their own experiences.  


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

 Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive Click Here for our complete DVD review archive

 Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule  Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#32 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 01:01 PM

However, keep in mind, everyone needs to make up their own mind as to whether they feel they

need to further improve their own experiences.  

Why is this not always obvious?  Isn't it a fundamental fact of life that we get to decide when to seek greater knowledge of a subject or activity of interest? 



#33 of 50 ONLINE   Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul



  • 42,368 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted January 13 2014 - 01:06 PM

George,

 

You are not going to convince everyone.

 

That's life.  You can't blame the person.  You can't blame this forum.

 

Be happy I am willing to experiment and will post my experiences soon afterwards.


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

 Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive Click Here for our complete DVD review archive

 Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule  Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#34 of 50 OFFLINE   schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert



  • 15,784 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted January 13 2014 - 01:33 PM

Why is this not always obvious?  Isn't it a fundamental fact of life that we get to decide when to seek greater knowledge of a subject or activity of interest? 

 

When it is often our goal to get people to understand why to buy better than a TCL TV and a Philips $99 HTiB...and we are worried about SMPTE?

 

Maybe we should start up another forum at the opposite end of the dredge that was created for UV codes...

 

We shall call it...

 

"Home Theater Master Class...ye not come in with stupid questions"



#35 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

GeorgeAB

    Second Unit



  • 479 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 28 2001
  • Real Name:G. Alan Brown
  • LocationDenver, CO

Posted January 13 2014 - 01:45 PM

George,

 

You are not going to convince everyone.

 

That's life.  You can't blame the person.  You can't blame this forum.

 

Be happy I am willing to experiment and will post my experiences soon afterwards.

Agreement isn't necessary.  Clarity is a much more practical objective in a public forum or debate.  How odd that "blame" would be considered!  The choices each of us make carry their own benefits or consequences.  Following thoroughly proven imaging science principles, display industry standards, and recommended practices, is a choice viewers can make once they become aware of such issues.  Having differing priorities or preferences doesn't make one right or wrong, just different.  If a viewer's objective is image fidelity and a reference viewing experience, following reference practices is the means to that end.



#36 of 50 OFFLINE   DaveF

DaveF

    Moderator



  • 15,326 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 04 2001
  • Real Name:David Fischer
  • LocationOne Loudoun, Ashburn, VA

Posted January 13 2014 - 04:09 PM

George, Robert was giving me sound advice. Some people don't believe in the need for bias lighting -- others like myselfare just curious.

Ron, please post what you buy and how you like it after a couple week's use!Back not long after I first started HTF, I learned about bias lighting. At some point, I had a cheap 12" fluorescent mounted on the wall behind my Sony WEGA with double-sided sticky tape. I used a few sheets of custom-fit paper to dim and diffuse the light. It was connected to my AVR's switched outlet for auto-on. It was dandy.Some years later, I moved, changed receivers, and the bulb died -- and never got around to replacing it. I've thought about setting up dedicated bias light again. I need a little light to be comfortable. I get a little glare and halos from my contacts from point sources in dark light. So bias light is more comfortable for me. I've been using kitchen lights for a while as a good-enough.I wouldn't mind an intentional bias behind the flat screen again.

#37 of 50 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

Steve Tannehill

    Producer



  • 5,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 06 1997
  • Real Name:Steve Tannehill
  • LocationDFW

Posted January 13 2014 - 04:17 PM

I have built-in bias lighting...my Mitsubishi DLP has a blue light mounted on the front of the TV along the bottom.  It is plenty bright and not distracting.



#38 of 50 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

Sam Posten

    Moderator



  • 18,544 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1997
  • Real Name:Sam Posten
  • LocationAberdeen, MD & Navesink, NJ

Posted January 13 2014 - 06:39 PM

I don't want any part of using bias lighting. The darker the room, the better. As my elderly mother would say, "What a bunch of hooey" !!

+1 this. I'm all for you experimenting Ron if that's what floats your boat, but I havent found I like this any better the few times I've seen it and it reeks of marketing to me, especially in the case of Philips. YMMV.

I lost my signature and all I got was this Nutter t-shirt

HTF Rules

Classified Sales Rules

UV Sales New Clarifications


#39 of 50 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

Gregg Loewen

    Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.



  • 6,367 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 09 1999
  • Real Name:Gregg Loewen
  • LocationNew England

Posted January 16 2014 - 11:43 PM

hi guys

 

I'm finally finishing up at CES and headed home tomorrow. 

 

A few scary thoughts in this thread.

 

Backlighting is a SMTPE recommendation for a reference environment. Back lighting is a THX requirement for all post production (reference environment).  Bias lighting needs to be at the same color temperature as the light emitting from the display (D65 white), assuming that the room is also black, white, or a neutral (D65) shade of gray.

 

BTW, George has pretty much dedicated the last 20 years of his life in researching and promoting environmental science in relation to video standards. While a few of his comments are a bit harsh, his comments are 100% on in relation to every visual science research discussion over the past 3 decades. 

 

Having a bias light is ALWAYS A GOOD THING when using a direct view display. Not a good thing when using a projector that relies on the absence of light to create a contrast ratio. 


The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
Gregg's DVDs updated...sometimes
Lion Audio Video Consultants usually current


#40 of 50 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

Gregg Loewen

    Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.



  • 6,367 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 09 1999
  • Real Name:Gregg Loewen
  • LocationNew England

Posted January 16 2014 - 11:46 PM

forgot to add:

 

The addition of a properly implemented bias light will:

 

1. decrease eye fatigue

2. increase perceived contrast ratio (makes blacks seem darker...which is great for a display with marginal black levels).

3. allow the viewer to see greater detail due to the fact that their eyes will be less fatigued. 


The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
Gregg's DVDs updated...sometimes
Lion Audio Video Consultants usually current





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users