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A Sneak Peek at Zulu and Khartoum

Twilight Time

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#21 of 252 OFFLINE   Keith Cobby

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Posted December 31 2013 - 06:49 AM

I am very satisfied with the UK blu-ray of Zulu and have always assumed that the lack of grain is due to it being from a large format negative.

 

I am not sensing from haineshisway's comments introducing this thread that the blu-ray of Khartoum will be quite as good as we are expecting, particularly as this is from a large negative format. It will be interesting to read other reviews when available.



#22 of 252 OFFLINE   Richard V

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Posted December 31 2013 - 07:02 AM

Eye of the beholder, man, eye of the beholder.


See you at the pah-ty, Richter.

#23 of 252 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted December 31 2013 - 08:17 AM

But, and it's a big but - what makes the Twilight Time a must, even if you prefer the UK, which some will, is the sound - 2.0 stereo - REAL stereo, with REAL stereo music and it sounds fantastic.  The mono or slight fake stereo sound on the UK is dreadful.  So, for me, the Twilight Time is a must for the sound alone.  While I prefer the color on the UK, it's really hard to get past the lousy sound.  And, for folks like me, this is a title where I don't mind owning two different transfers.

 

 

I don't how if this is correct but this site says:

 

In the CD booklet of the recent re-recording of the music score, it was stated that although the sound effects and dialogue were recorded stereophonically the original music score was recorded in Mono.


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#24 of 252 OFFLINE   Reed Grele

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Posted December 31 2013 - 09:52 AM

As I already have the U.K. BD of Zulu, it will be interesting to compare the colors and audio quality when the TT edition arrives.

 

If I can't live with TT's color, I'll marry the U.K.'s video with TT's audio (assuming it syncs up correctly) and enjoy the best of both.

 

This method worked fine with Major Dundee (extended version, but married to Daniele Amfitheatrof's score.) Sacrilege to some, I'm sure. But that was the version I saw first in the early sixties. That's the score that was burned into my memory at a very young age. it's the one I prefer, and I just couldn't get into the new musical score by Christopher Caliendo no matter how many times I listened to it.



#25 of 252 OFFLINE   JoHud

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Posted December 31 2013 - 10:40 AM

Oh, I'm sure there will be differences if this is actually suppose to be a different transfer.  However, was this new TT transfer made from the same elements as the UK version or separate?

 

Maybe I'm just skeptical because of that big issue caused by The Fury.

 

Personally, it wasn't the faces of the people that looked too smooth, but the bare skin of the native Zulus and I'm personally interested in comparing the two once the TT disc arrives.  However, I could easily be mistaken given I haven't watched it since that blu-ray came out.

 

By the looks of it, I'll end up owning both discs for one reason or another. That much I'm certain.

 

Not really worried at all about this or Khartoum as I really don't expect much out of MGM's HD transfers, certainly not anything up to Sony standards or even up to most Fox releases.  As far as MGM goes what you get is what you get, for better or worse.  And that goes across the board.



#26 of 252 OFFLINE   mark brown

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Posted December 31 2013 - 10:55 AM

why no 5.1 on either of these titles? 

 



#27 of 252 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted December 31 2013 - 11:31 AM

Apologies for possibly being uber-picky, but no film was ever SHOT in Super Technirama 70. It was the display format used when the horizontal 35mm Technirama negative was printed up to 70mm.Zulu was shot in Technirama.

I merely repeated the credit that's on the screen.  I understand what Technirama and VistaVision is, and I understand that when those formats are used there is little grain.



#28 of 252 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted December 31 2013 - 11:33 AM

I don't how if this is correct but this site says:

 

In the CD booklet of the recent re-recording of the music score, it was stated that although the sound effects and dialogue were recorded stereophonically the original music score was recorded in Mono.

That's been the party line forever - but the music is clearly true stereo, so that would seem to put an end to the party line :)  Believe me, Nick was surprised when this all came up, and I was equally surprised when I heard it.



#29 of 252 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted December 31 2013 - 11:35 AM

Oh, I'm sure there will be differences if this is actually suppose to be a different transfer.  However, was this new TT transfer made from the same elements as the UK version or separate?

 

Maybe I'm just skeptical because of that big issue caused by The Fury.

 

Personally, it wasn't the faces of the people that looked too smooth, but the bare skin of the native Zulus and I'm personally interested in comparing the two once the TT disc arrives.  However, I could easily be mistaken given I haven't watched it since that blu-ray came out.

 

By the looks of it, I'll end up owning both discs for one reason or another. That much I'm certain.

 

Not really worried at all about this or Khartoum as I really don't expect much out of MGM's HD transfers, certainly not anything up to Sony standards or even up to most Fox releases.  As far as MGM goes what you get is what you get, for better or worse.  And that goes across the board.

It IS a different transfer.  



#30 of 252 OFFLINE   Twilight Time

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Posted December 31 2013 - 12:16 PM

As we had previously explained here:

 

http://www.hometheat...=+zulu +blu-ray

 

TT's transfer cannot be the same as the one from the UK.

 

UK = Paramount / Sky Television

 

USA = MGM/UA / Studio Canal


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#31 of 252 OFFLINE   Twilight Time

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Posted December 31 2013 - 12:23 PM

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What surprised Bruce K and I last night when we were comparing the two is how strangely similar they are -- the differences seem to be only that the UK color is more "saturated" and vivid -- the TT one is a little cooler, more pale. As stated in the earlier thread, TT's bears evidence of some minor debris and the occasional white flecks of "minus density" (trademark Robert Harris!)The other, as Bruce mentioned, is the sound. The UK is a muffled mono / "faux" stereo presentation -- TT's is real, and surprisingly separated true stereo -- a revelation.

 

As always, it is in the eye of the beholder -- 

 

Happy new year, everyone, and thanks for all your support!

 

N.


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#32 of 252 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted December 31 2013 - 01:29 PM

Man, now I'm really looking forward to viewing Zulu again.  It was almost 50 years ago that I viewed it for the first time at my local theater during the summer of 1964.  The film has remain one of my favorite all-time movies.


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#33 of 252 OFFLINE   David_B_K

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Posted December 31 2013 - 02:09 PM

I was gonna pass on re-buying Zulu again, but am intrigued by the more vivid sound.

#34 of 252 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted December 31 2013 - 02:18 PM

After a close inspection of my U.K. disc, I feel confident in saying there is definitely some weird digital stuff going on. I don't know if it's DNR or sharpening or regraining or what, but it doesn't look right to me.

 

The faces of the British soldiers look like wax figurines, lacking in fine detail. You can see the shadowing of their facial hair growth, but I'll be damned if I can see any actual stubble. Though I'll acknowledge this might be down to the make up they're wearing, but I've never seen anything similar in films of this era before. 

 

What I can say for certain is digital though is the grain structure. Or more appropriately, the noise. It's definitely there, but is very fine, so to examine it you need to be up close to the screen. You can tell it isn't film "grain" because it all disappears if you pause the image. Once you resume it appears in select places of the screen, particularly around the white hats the British are wearing. As they move about, so too does the noise swarm and dance around the edges of their hats. Pause it and it simply vanishes. It's minute enough that I don't find it distracting at my usual seating distance from my 50 inch, but I can't imagine bearing it if I was using a projector. 

 

Of course, the disc still looks "good", the colours are very nice and detail is far greater than I've ever seen on any DVD release. This is certainly no Spartacus, another Super Technirama 70 production. But I have trouble believing it is an accurate, film like rendering of an original early generation element. If the TT disc has real grain, even if it is larger than the noise here, I'll probably be replacing my U.K. disc.

 

One side note: how does one tell if a stereo track is "faux mono"? The track on this disc is definitely stereo, insofar that it has two independent directional channels. I don't know enough about how Zulu "should" sound, so what is it about the track that makes it poor?



#35 of 252 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted December 31 2013 - 02:42 PM

So does the 2.0 DTS-HD MA convert to Dolby Pro logic - same as the House of Wax Blu-ray 3D disc does on my receiver? 


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#36 of 252 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted December 31 2013 - 03:02 PM

It's standard Dolby Digital, not DTS-HD MA. It does convert via Pro Logic to use all 5 speakers, yes.



#37 of 252 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted December 31 2013 - 03:10 PM

It's standard Dolby Digital, not DTS-HD MA. It does convert via Pro Logic to use all 5 speakers, yes.

 

Screen Archives says its DTS-HD MA


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#38 of 252 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted December 31 2013 - 03:15 PM

One side note: how does one tell if a stereo track is "faux mono"? The track on this disc is definitely stereo, insofar that it has two independent directional channels. I don't know enough about how Zulu "should" sound, so what is it about the track that makes it poor?

 

The sound on the UK Blu-ray was mono converted to stereo by Chace


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#39 of 252 OFFLINE   cineMANIAC

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Posted December 31 2013 - 03:37 PM

Just tried to search for Khartoum on Amazon UK and it didn't turn it except for some old DVDs. Is it a retailer exclusive (the new BD I mean)? 


RIP Roberto Gomez Bolanos.

#40 of 252 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted December 31 2013 - 03:52 PM

All Twilight Time Blu-rays are only available through Screen Archives Entertainment - they also list on amazon in the US but at a higher price - best to buy direct.







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