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A Sneak Peek at Zulu and Khartoum

Twilight Time

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#241 of 252 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted March 01 2014 - 03:56 PM

Thank you Oliver that's exactly what I saying with my previous comment.  To each his own and I sincerely mean it.

Robert, I knew your statement was meant in a positive way and I can understand where you are coming from. I might be a bit more passionate about especially picture quality in the area of home theater but in others areas of life I also prefer to be a bit more relaxed or one might even say ignorant and I am happier because of it.



#242 of 252 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted March 01 2014 - 04:21 PM

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Robert, I knew your statement was meant in a positive way and I can understand where you are coming from. I might be a bit more passionate about especially picture quality in the area of home theater but in others areas of life I also prefer to be a bit more relaxed or one might even say ignorant and I am happier because of it.

Oliver, I think part of it is that I'm older now and have come to realize that my time on this earth is becoming shorter each day and I've accepted the simple fact that many of my favorite films will never be presented as I prefer them to be on home video.  Sadly, the studios have failed big time in being consistent with their PQ in the video disc era especially in regard to catalog titles.  Also, the marketplace has changed so much over the last several years that the consumer base has eroded for home video disc.  It's part of the reason why I'm utilizing streaming options now as certain titles will never be release on any type of disc format in the coming years.



#243 of 252 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted March 03 2014 - 04:27 AM

Robert, this is a very good and true post!

 

I guess I am still feeling eternally young at this point as I am still very picky about what I watch - maybe things will be different in 10 years as then I will certainly be older and possibly a bit more relaxed when it comes to picture quality.



#244 of 252 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted June 04 2014 - 03:16 AM

Maybe there is some hope that we will get another new and improved version of Zulu, according to this link:http://www.parkcircu...0th_anniversaryThere is a new remastered DCP now. Does not have to mean much (as with Funny Face) but still I somehow hope that they would do something special for such a special event!

#245 of 252 OFFLINE   sonomatom1

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Posted June 16 2014 - 11:46 AM

I have loved 'Zulu' since I first saw it in high school. Richard Burton's opening narration sealed the deal right there and then - and whoa! - John Barry's remarkable score enveloped the theater. My love for that music has not dimmed in nearly fifty years. So what's a guy to do -- stick with his UK BR that he finds very satisfying, or invest another $40 for the improved audio? In the case of 'Zulu', the music, IMO, is integral to the enjoyment of the film as a whole. I don't believe it's piddling issue. Just another nail in the coffin of frustrating restorations....



#246 of 252 OFFLINE   David_B_K

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Posted June 16 2014 - 11:54 AM

Tom, I did not find the Twilight Time version of Zulu to have vastly better sound than the UK Blu-ray. But I much preferred the image. The color and contrast are way over-boosted IMO on the UK version. 



#247 of 252 OFFLINE   sonomatom1

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Posted June 16 2014 - 12:25 PM

David_B_K - thanks for your response. Now I'm totally confused. I actually think the UK colors are superb, and if you find the sound about the same -- I think I'll stay with my UK version (this is not going to turn into a Star Wars saga of buying every upgrade ever issued ...yikes (been there, done that, never again).

 

I think probaby we're all nit-picking about these two releases. I think the film has been well-served in both releases (not many movies can say that).



#248 of 252 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted June 16 2014 - 12:28 PM

I think the film has been well-served in both releases (not many movies can say that).

 

Two releases, both have their issues, not well served considering how this film is an absolute classic, of course this is just my opinion, hopefully it'll get a third release down the road that does things right.


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"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#249 of 252 OFFLINE   sonomatom1

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Posted June 16 2014 - 12:44 PM

Malcolm: how can we know when a new issue of a film is right (as the film maker intended)?

 

In the case of 'Zulu', I believe all the principals involved in the film are dead now, so it seems to me that any 'tweaking' is a matter of taste and preference of the editor in charge of creating the new release. I think this is particular true with the color [timing?] -- a little out of my element here ... lol. As for the sound, I suppose you can be a strict absolutist and only include the sound mix that was used (or available) at the time the film was released (i.e., the old 'Terminator' mono vs digital mix debate), or try to goose it a little to give the foley sounds, dialog, music, a little more juice.

 

My cautious point (I am on very shakey ground with respect to the technicalities here) is that I don't know what you expect to hear and see in a third blu-ray release of 'Zulu'.



#250 of 252 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted June 16 2014 - 12:45 PM

David_B_K - thanks for your response. Now I'm totally confused. I actually think the UK colors are superb, and if you find the sound about the same -- I think I'll stay with my UK version (this is not going to turn into a Star Wars saga of buying every upgrade ever issued ...yikes (been there, done that, never again).

 

I think probaby we're all nit-picking about these two releases. I think the film has been well-served in both releases (not many movies can say that).

 

The one aspect of TT's version of Zulu that almost no one disputes is the superiority of its lossless sound...and it's in stereo...and it's isolated.

 

I also happen to be a huge fan of this landmark John Barry score and have compared both Blu-rays of the title...and...well...when it comes to the proper showcase of that classic score...frankly, there is no comparison. Even Redman's commentary about its historical and creative importance is superb...both insightful and entertaining.

 

So do not be deterred by anyone blithely downplayng TT's achievement in this particular area...you'll kick yourself later.



#251 of 252 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted June 16 2014 - 02:05 PM

it seems to me that any 'tweaking' is a matter of taste and preference of the editor in charge of creating the new release. I think this is particular true with the color [timing?] -- a little out of my element here ... lol. 

 

My cautious point (I am on very shakey ground with respect to the technicalities here) is that I don't know what you expect to hear and see in a third blu-ray release of 'Zulu'.

 

Having two versions to compare makes this easier to answer, i could see clearly that the UK version had DNR and contrast boosting that removed detail, you could also see clearly edge enhancement halo's on the TT version, neither version is great, i rented the UK version and thought it abyssmal and i bought the TT version and until a better one comes along i will keep it.

 

There is another version out there released by Inspired Pictures in the USA that obviously uses the UK master but does not have the over saturated colours, go to Cap-A-Holics if you wish to view some caps from it.

 

For a third blu ray release, i'd want a modern new 4K film scan, the TT audio, no over saturation of colours, no contrast boost and especially no excessive edge enhancement or DNR applied, that would make me very happy, i'd pay a lot for that version.

 

P.S.  I hope this doesn't start the arguments up again, this is just my opinion on both these releases.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#252 of 252 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted June 16 2014 - 03:00 PM

But Tom was asking specifically about Zulu's sound and score Malcolm. And the original response to his query bafflingly "downplayed" the audio differences between these releases, when in fact, that aspect of TT's Blu-ray was significantly better...especially its lossless IST.

 

As you say, most of us who have seen both discs have issues with the image quality of both...neither representing this large format Technirama film optimally. On that point though, the limitations of the U.S. MGM transfer can at least be mitigated at the display level, whereas the U.K. Paramount's worst sins are 'baked in' via over-zealous digital workflow.

 

In a better world we would indeed get that 4k OCN rescan you propose with no digital monkeying and great sound. And yes, when - if - that ever does occur, this happens to be a touchstone film for me, so I'll gladly spring for it yet again. But with its 50th anniversary having already passed, I just don't have a lot of confidence that will ever happen. So in its current state, if someone with a love of great film scoring has to make a choice between versions, then that choice is pretty clear.







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