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Second seats row surround speakers and amp needed


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#1 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 06:10 AM

Hi everyone,

it's my first post here !

 

I'm planning a 2 rows home theater with a 7.2 system.

I want a second pair of surrounds for the second row.

 

What kind of second amp do I need for this second pair?

I want to use the first pair as input signal for the second amp and 2 pairs out for the surrounds.

 

thanks!


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#2 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 07:33 AM

Any amp.I don't even understand "I want to use the pair as input signal for the second amp". Unless you mean you want an amp with level inputs...which there has never, ever, been a reason to do that. And there never will be.A speaker switch is what you'd use, just hook up a 2nd pair.What equipment are you using so we aren't throwing darts with a blindfold.

#3 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 07:34 AM

High level inputs, no reason for those...(dang phone)

#4 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 07:48 AM

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know if I'm using the correct words here.

 

Yes I wanted to say High Level Input on the second amp.

 

If I use a speaker switch/splitter the power will be sufficient for 2 pairs of speakers drived by 1 pair ?

 

I will use a 7.2 Amplifier.

 

something la this?

http://www.ebay.ca/i...82657f53&_uhb=1

 

or should I use a stereo amplifier for the surrounds ?


Pioneer VSX-822-K 5.1 AVR

Pioneer BDP-120 Blu-ray player

Klipsch B10 Surrounds

Boston Acoustics CS 225C II Center Channel Loudspeaker

Omage BFF-308 Subwoofer


#5 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 08:26 AM

Ok problem solved.

I will use a 9.2 amp and redirect 2 channels on the surrounds for the second pair.

Thanks for your reply.


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#6 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 10:21 AM

Ok problem solved.

I will use a 9.2 amp and redirect 2 channels on the surrounds for the second pair.

Thanks for your reply.

9.2 "amp", I assume you mean AVR. (amp is just power, nothing else)

 

There are no, none, 9 channel AVR out there where you can set your surround as a "second pair of 4/5".



#7 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 10:23 AM

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know if I'm using the correct words here.

 

Yes I wanted to say High Level Input on the second amp.

 

If I use a speaker switch/splitter the power will be sufficient for 2 pairs of speakers drived by 1 pair ?

 

I will use a 7.2 Amplifier.

 

something la this?

http://www.ebay.ca/i...82657f53&_uhb=1

 

or should I use a stereo amplifier for the surrounds ?

 

Other than that switch being overkill, yes that.

 

You only need one like this...

http://www.amazon.co...=speaker switch (although no idea "how good" that one is)



#8 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 10:35 AM

I'm sure I saw an AVR that let redirect 2 chanels on any other one, but I could have dream it :)

 

ok Thanks again for all this info


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Pioneer BDP-120 Blu-ray player

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#9 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 10:45 AM

Have you purchased anything yet?

 

Do you have a budget?

 

Usually there is no reason to attempt a "second set of the same surround speaker". IF you need to cover two zones, get big speakers.



#10 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 11:00 AM

Using phone again, so searching myself is limited.The Dec Tech XTR50(close enough) is a very long speaker and can be oriented horizontal.

#11 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 11:03 AM

Yes but if the speaker is centered between the 2 rows the second row will have the speakers in front of them instead of the 90-110 degrees recommended...I want each row to have the same experience.

 

didn't buy anything yet I'm not ready to purchase..I'm planing right now

 

my setup will be something like this but 7.2 instead of 5.1 with 3-4 feets between the rows:

Posted Image


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#12 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 11:13 AM

You are taking 110° a little too literally. I don't like that diagram anyway cause the seats are too far back(side note, I follow SACD/ DVD- A arrangement).If you offer up a room dimension...

#13 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 19 2013 - 11:19 AM

I think this is a question of taste... I would prefer the surrounds 90 degrees

 

In my first setup plan the first row is 12 feet away from a 100 in screen, the second about 15-17 feet, 3 feet from the rear wall.

I can move things around.

 

room dimensions :15x21x8


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#14 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 19 2013 - 11:25 AM

Bigger screen...or closer.90° is fine. Really don't think two sets of sides is necessary.

#15 of 30 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted December 19 2013 - 01:06 PM

I want each row to have the same experience.

 

Really, this isn't possible to the degree of exactitude you're describing - for the same reason you can't realistically expect to create the "same experience" for the person sitting on the left side of a row as the person sitting on the right side of a row.

 

Throwing more speakers into a situation (especially in ways that are not typical - see also a "second center") almost always cause more problems than they solve - and they really don't solve any problems.

 

Setup/calibration utilities like Audyssey do a generally good job at overcoming speaker placement compromises to produce the best possible experience for the "sweet spot" in the room. As these utilities have improved, the "sweet spot" has gotten slightly bigger thanks to sampling speaker performance in multiple locations.

 

Design your room such that the center seat in whichever row you prefer is the focal point. Take the time to properly set up and calibrate your finished system so that the rest of the seats get the best possible experience (by no means will they be "bad", just less than ideal).


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#16 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 20 2013 - 06:02 AM

What do you think of this article?

 

Section "6.1, 7.1 and MOREFig (4) - Multiple Surrounds, such as in a larger home theater presentation room,

with multiple rows of seating.

http://www.soundoctor.com/surround.htm

 

I understand the problem and I know everyone in the room can't have the same sound quality, I just wanted to replicate a movie theater experience.

 

I made a quick sketch to illustrate my idea.

So if I can get 110 degrees for the first row and 90 for the second row...I would be able to get nice sound with one speaker pair ?

Posted Image

 

it seems impossible since there is about 6 feet between the viewers postion

 

Posted Image


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#17 of 30 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted December 20 2013 - 06:40 AM

What do you think of this article?

 

Section "6.1, 7.1 and MOREFig (4) - Multiple Surrounds, such as in a larger home theater presentation room,

with multiple rows of seating.

http://www.soundoctor.com/surround.htm

 

 

Well, as I was reading the article, I thought it sounded very dated, and then I saw the publish date at the bottom - 2007 (with "updates" in Feb. of 2011), so  the most recent update sort of coincides with the advent of lossless audio codecs, but, IMO, certainly predates the recent surge in natively encoded 7.1 movie soundtracks. We also don't know what was updated.

 

In fact, as I read the article, I got the sense that EVERY TIME he mentions "7.1" he's actually referring to non-native 7.1 soundtracks, i.e. extrapolated 7.1 via Dolby ProLogic II decoding (notice he refers to the back channels as "the back channel resynthesis"). Based on this, his assertion is that duplicating the natively-encoded surround channels on a 5.1 soundtrack is preferred to using DPLII to create "faux" surround back.

 

I can see his rationale here - I too share the perspective that listening to sound in it's native format is always the better choice.

 

However, seeing that since this article was written, Blu-ray along with it's superior (and often 7.1 native) soundtracks is becoming more and more prevalent in the home, a "traditional" 7.1 setup is still the better way to go, IMO. - that is to say, adding the correct surround back speakers should take precendence over adding additional surround speakers.


Edited by Jason Charlton, December 20 2013 - 06:42 AM.

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#18 of 30 OFFLINE   AlphaCentaurus

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Posted December 20 2013 - 06:49 AM

Ok thanks I'll continue my reading and planing !


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#19 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 20 2013 - 08:17 AM

I'll add in some more cause I've been doing surround sound since Quadraphonic. Been around the block and anxiously await HDMI 2.0 and what Atmos might be bringing to the party in another 2-18 months.(all conjecture as there is nothing, audio wise, announced for HDMI 2.0 yet. Hell...video isn't even finalized)

 

Like I alluded to, I design theatres(which I do 10-18 a year, usually new home construction...or new room additions) around the basic concepts of SACD-DVD-A from back when(Google "ITU SACD" and you'll find the article).

 

In a nutshell(cause remember this is from prior to AC3/DD becoming de facto) it states your seat(sweet spot) is to be dead center of all the speakers. All other seats have to make do with not being the center of attention.

 

DD (once AC3 was re-named) comes along and shifts the sound field rearward(or moves the surrounds closer...take your pick of terminology) approximately 30% to make it more "living room friendly".

 

As far as I know(not cared to check in 15 years) DD, DTS, DTS-HD and DT-HD/MA are all mastered to the specification that your "center seat" is still the center of the speakers...

 

That "mastered to be a certain way" is not practical in 95% of home theatres. That "non practicality" is why modern AVR have distance settings and delay.

 

Set your room up for your seat...and don't buy horn.(if you are worried about width of soundfield for the side surround)



#20 of 30 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 20 2013 - 08:26 AM

By the way. Let me introduce you to some speakers that solve your "what do I do for my sides covering so much room"...

 

http://ohmspeaker.com/

http://www.amazon.co...ds=mirage tower (really any Mirage)

http://www.magnepan.com/

http://www.martinlog...ct-list.php#esl (anything ESL)






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