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Receiver and speaker upgrade question


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#21 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 10 2013 - 09:14 AM

From a pure sound quality, build quality, etc standpoint would one of these stand above the others?

Marantz SR6008

Yamaha RX-A1030

Denon AVR-X4000

#22 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 10 2013 - 09:21 AM

The SR6008 and X4000 are "the same" AVR.

 

The only difference being MCH and overall looks.



#23 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 10 2013 - 11:34 AM

My room is a large open area that includes kitchen, dining and living in one long row. The living area is only about 12.5 x 16 though with the TV inset into an alcove on one side that is about 3 feet deep.

The sofa sits opposite on one of the 16 foot sides. Wall material is drywall, floors are wood and there are 4 windows and 2 doors in the space as well as an open side towards the dining room and kitchen areas.

Not an ideal environment by any means.



I plan to wall mount the deftech pro 800 monitors in front on either side of the alcove, and in rear on either side of the seating area. The extra set will be higher on front wall as front height. The center will hang just above the TV and be just about 1 foot further away than the front mains and the subwoofer will also sit in the alcove beside the armoire holding tv.



The above all said, the speakers come Friday and the Marantz 5008 came today. I'm still toying with one of the nicer models but not so much for the power needs as much as the extra features like better processing, etc. the extra power would make it more dynamic I feel as it would just be reserve power.

Overkill probably but alternates I'm considering

Onkyo 929
Onkyo 818
Yamaha 1030
Yamaha 2020
Marantz 6008
Denon 4000


The ones with the audessy xt32 seem like considering but the yamaha probably is similar too. I may end up just keeping the 5008 but will continue to read and consider options for another day or two.

Edited by txbonds, December 10 2013 - 03:12 PM.


#24 of 40 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted December 10 2013 - 06:59 PM

 

The SR6008 and X4000 are "the same" AVR.
 
The only difference being MCH and overall looks.

 
Isn't the 7008 the closer model to the X4000?

I've always found Denons to be much harder to setup and operate then most other brands but maybe the newer ones aren't so bad. The refurbed X4000 for $799 shipped from ac4l does look good on paper though. I had XT32 in an Integra 70.2 and didn't see what all the fuss was about but maybe I didn't really give it a chance either. I only had it for a couple of weeks.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#25 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 11 2013 - 09:12 AM

The 7008 and 4520 are kindred spirits. I'm sure D&M has done more to differentiate their AVR since the "fiasco that was the 3312 in a suit"...

 

I'm still not convinced the "negative amp design"(what is that called again?) means a damn thing. It technically didn't mean anything back when it did mean something(back when separate sumo class amps were wired that way).

 

It is like comparing damping factors...



#26 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 11 2013 - 09:22 AM

My room is a large open area that includes kitchen, dining and living in one long row. The living area is only about 12.5 x 16 though with the TV inset into an alcove on one side that is about 3 feet deep.

The sofa sits opposite on one of the 16 foot sides. Wall material is drywall, floors are wood and there are 4 windows and 2 doors in the space as well as an open side towards the dining room and kitchen areas.

Not an ideal environment by any means.



I plan to wall mount the deftech pro 800 monitors in front on either side of the alcove, and in rear on either side of the seating area. The extra set will be higher on front wall as front height. The center will hang just above the TV and be just about 1 foot further away than the front mains and the subwoofer will also sit in the alcove beside the armoire holding tv.



The above all said, the speakers come Friday and the Marantz 5008 came today. I'm still toying with one of the nicer models but not so much for the power needs as much as the extra features like better processing, etc. the extra power would make it more dynamic I feel as it would just be reserve power.

Overkill probably but alternates I'm considering

Onkyo 929
Onkyo 818
Yamaha 1030
Yamaha 2020
Marantz 6008
Denon 4000


The ones with the audessy xt32 seem like considering but the yamaha probably is similar too. I may end up just keeping the 5008 but will continue to read and consider options for another day or two.

 

 

Understand about the reserve power thing...

 

However, Yamaha does not disclose what it "sucks off the wall"...

 

Onkyo uses inverted Darlington. Notoriously inefficient. I have no clue what Denon uses(they don't exactly mention it).

 

Even if all three use AB, they are all somewhere between 40% to 55% efficient. Onkyo chews a crapton of power off the wall. At every price point(at MSRP...not street)...Onkyo pulls 40% more power than everyone else. But...the ID design means it has to. But is 40% efficiency that much less than 50%? No, it isn't...once you've removed the video section power from the "sucks off the wall".

 

Case in point. I'm reviewing the Elite SC79 for about another week. I have yet to get this thing to suck even half the juice the Onkyo SR707 did off the wall. Class D power at full bore(was listening, again, to Handel's Messiah...Dublin version) at 110db peaks...

 

The prior SR707 would just break 6 amps at 105db peaks. (the 707 chews a max of 6.2...and it blinked 6.0. The power meter I use keeps max power in memory)

Same speakers with the Elite SC79 at 110db peaks doesn't even break 3 amps. (the most I've gotten it up to was 3.6 while watching Underworld: Awakening. U:A takes more power to get to 105 than Handel's Messiah takes to get to 110.)



#27 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 11 2013 - 03:15 PM

Decided to enter an RMA request on the Marantz SR5008.


Not sure which of the upgrade units I'm going with yet but think I've narrowed it down to one of these but still having a hard time choosing. I don't live in a city that I can hear these either.

Yamaha 2020
Denon 4311ci

#28 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 11 2013 - 03:52 PM

That Denon is 3 years old already...(was "current" till the 4520 showed up though)...

 

XX11, XX12, XX13 and X-X000 (shows you the year progression). However the 4311 was kept current because it could do Aud DSX wide and height at the same time(pre-dating DTS Neo:X) and the Japanese tsunami destroyed Denon's plants.

 

The 2020 is last years(if you can find the 2010 and 2000...see if they lose anything you care about...and if the 2000 does, maybe the 3000 kept it...???)


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#29 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 11 2013 - 04:08 PM

That Denon is 3 years old already...(was "current" till the 4520 showed up though)...
 
XX11, XX12, XX13 and X-X000 (shows you the year progression). However the 4311 was kept current because it could do Aud DSX wide and height at the same time(pre-dating DTS Neo:X) and the Japanese tsunami destroyed Denon's plants.
 
The 2020 is last years(if you can find the 2010 and 2000...see if they lose anything you care about...and if the 2000 does, maybe the 3000 kept it...???)


Thanks for the wealth of knowledge.
Any idea what the 1030/2030 models added over the 2020?

#30 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 13 2013 - 03:09 PM

Since deciding I wanted a more featured unit than the 5008 I've been doing more and more reading and a refurb Yamaha 3030 and refurb Marantz 7008 have hit the radar screen. I ruled out the Denon 4520 and a few others for price as I can get the 7008 and 3030 for nearly identical pricing.

I realize it's not a major feature but I kind of dig the simpler aesthetics of the Marantz faceplate. For a 7.2 or 9.2 setup features look nearly equal. The only biggie I'm seeing is the 3030 allows a 11.2 setup with ext amp and it looks like the 7008 doesn't process 11.2 even though it has the preamps on back. I'm thinking I may setup 9.1 or 9.2 using rear surrounds overhead and front height now but 11.2 would be nice for future options if I ever change, relocate or expand my setup.

Not many comparisons out there on these two. Even though I've got a fondness and soft spot for yamaha after years with their products I'm fairly certain I've decided to go with the Marantz 7008 but How do I really choose between these two?

#31 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 16 2013 - 12:23 PM

Well, decided on a totally different approach.

For now I'm keeping the Marantz 5008 to use as receiver as I've decided I ultimately want to gravitate towards separates with a nice amp.

Looking for better main speakers to pair with the Deftech's and will roll some of the promonitor 800 speakers off to do multi-room zones for general music. Will do a simple setup with front L/C/R, front height and side surrounds for 7.1 initially but may look at dual subs for 7.2.

Picked up a Marantz UD7007 player for movies and audio

Future plans to include a separate amp like the Marantz 8077, but initially using the 5008 as pre/pro and then eventually upgrade to a stand alone pre/pro.

#32 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted December 16 2013 - 12:32 PM

That is the best overall plan of action.

 

Tempted on my own to do that myself. HDMI 2.0 is on the horizon and I really don't want to buy another $1000+ AVR until 2.0 sees the light of day.

 

I ended up fixing my SR707(I have a thread...might/should update it) for $75. That should last another year(hoping).

 

Then I can move my NR1008 and utilize it...instead of under-utilizing it and buying another AVR "like it".

 

Then I'll be able to move on to separates in my main theatre(I scrounged up another Kenwood M2A...so, three M2A and "some three channel amp" and I'm set).



#33 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted December 16 2013 - 12:47 PM

That is the best overall plan of action.
 
Tempted on my own to do that myself. HDMI 2.0 is on the horizon and I really don't want to buy another $1000+ AVR until 2.0 sees the light of day.
 
I ended up fixing my SR707(I have a thread...might/should update it) for $75. That should last another year(hoping).
 
Then I can move my NR1008 and utilize it...instead of under-utilizing it and buying another AVR "like it".
 
Then I'll be able to move on to separates in my main theatre(I scrounged up another Kenwood M2A...so, three M2A and "some three channel amp" and I'm set).



Awesome. :).

I think it makes the most sense as well. That way I can enjoy now and work through an upgrade path as well. Also, the 5008 could be re-tasked to another duty if I get to the separates point, so it's not a loss.

#34 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted January 12 2014 - 11:26 AM

Well, decided to exchange the sr5008 and instead brought home a 4520ci. Best i can tell this is about as close as i could get to 8801/8077 separates while staying with single unit simplicity. So far I'm loving it. Seems to be just as warm to neutral in sound but much more clean and dynamic than the smaller 5008. Also will allow me to grow into the features and expand to 9 and maybe even 11 speaker setup with 2 subs.

#35 of 40 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 12 2014 - 03:11 PM

In your first post you mentioned the Sony 1040 and you wound up with a Denon 4520. That's a significant upgrade. Did you keep the 7007 or exchange it for a Denon model (DBT-3313)? Anyway, enjoy!


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#36 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted January 12 2014 - 03:43 PM

LOL. Yeah it ended up being quite a change.

I kept the UD7007 because they didn't have the 3313 in stock. Would it give a significant upgrade using the denon link? The 7007 seems like a really nice unit.

Thanks

#37 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 12 2014 - 03:53 PM

There is no difference between HDMI and Denon Link.

#38 of 40 OFFLINE   txbonds

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Posted January 12 2014 - 06:27 PM

Good to know. Will stick with the UD7007 then. Thanks.

#39 of 40 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 13 2014 - 06:52 PM

I have a UD7006 and it's a decent player but not worth the $1000 msrp. I was just wondering if you got the Denon player to go with the Denon receiver.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#40 of 40 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 14 2014 - 06:40 AM

Perhaps this link could help you figure out what's the ideal if not the best speaker set up in your home theater.
http://kzaudiovideo....acoustic-audio/


Dude. Do you seriously expect to...

1. Be taken seriously with your blog?
2. Expect anybody to come close to paying you.

When...

1. The writing needs major improvement.
2. Have 90% bullshit "information" that makes no sense. (seriously..."Look for speakers that produce above 20hz". Really? "Make sure your speakers are magnetically shielded to not interfere with BD players". Oh. My. God. Where. Do. I. Begin.)






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