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A few words about...™ Mary Poppins -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About Disney Blu-ray

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#161 of 398 ahollis

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Posted December 12 2013 - 06:29 PM

Here is a scan of a 1964 dye transfer 35mm print as adjusted for Carbon Arc appearance by none other than Robert Harris.

attachicon.gif maryarcadjustment.jpg

The original film scan before the adjustments.
attachicon.gif mpcompare1.jpg

Another member's scan from the new Blu-ray, which has been criticised by others as not being accurate.
Maybe somebody can supply a new scan of this scene.
attachicon.gif mpcompare2.jpg

The top scan adjusted by Robert Harris is how I remember it looked the many times that I have projected it via Carbon Arc.
The prints that I projected were all of British origin and they tended to favour the yellow, so maybe folks in the USA saw things differently.

Doug.


My Blu-ray does not look like the Blu-ray scan.
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#162 of 398 haineshisway

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Posted December 12 2013 - 10:07 PM

My Blu-ray does not look like the Blu-ray scan.

Nor does mine.  Big surprise :)  In fact, my Blu-ray looks very much like the adjusted Robert Harris cap - and he said as much about the Blu and his cap when he posted it.


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#163 of 398 ahollis

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Posted December 12 2013 - 10:11 PM

Nor does mine. Big surprise :) In fact, my Blu-ray looks very much like the adjusted Robert Harris cap - and he said as much about the Blu and his cap when he posted it.


Yep. Looking at it again right now and I agree. My Blu-ray looks like Mr. Harris's cap.

#164 of 398 Ethan Riley

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Posted December 12 2013 - 11:07 PM

If the damn thing ever goes on sale, I'll be joining in on the conversation.


 

 


#165 of 398 davidmatychuk

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Posted December 13 2013 - 12:20 AM

What do colour-blind people do with screen caps?



#166 of 398 Robert Harris

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Posted December 13 2013 - 01:25 AM

What viewers need to understand is that it's not about the Blu-rays, but about frame captures.

Trust them, from wherever they may come -- much like rare U.S. coins -- from our friends in China.
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#167 of 398 Cinescott

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Posted December 13 2013 - 05:32 AM

From what I can gather, many people who like the Blu-ray admit that there is a push towards blue, cool tones compared to previous releases, but that it's accurate. Screen caps notwithstanding. They know this due to living memory and Disney's own account of how they graded the image.

 

Many feel that the image is brighter, but that it's accurate (i.e. less 'muddy'), for the same reasons.

 

Others, like myself, don't know, but have doubts based on experience viewing Technicolor images. I must be among the 'colour blind' ones.

 

To me,Technicolor creates vivid primary colors, red, green, blue, etc. I see this from numerous other releases from the same or similar periods, including yes, The Ten Commandments, which looks fine to me BTW, and which also has a very strong blue palette during long portions. I don't see that in Mary Poppins. I see primary colors bled from an image that favors blue. 

 

The screen caps posted here probably represent exaggerations in one form or another on each end of the spectrum, but I believe the basic changes to the image in 2013, whether right or wrong, are fairly well represented.

 

I also wish I could live the life of the content with the knowledge that everything is right with the Blu-ray based on 50 (or 40) year old memories and the statements from a press release. Life experience has taught me to be a bit more skeptical and think for myself.

 

I feel pleased for those who feel that 'this is it' regarding the accuracy of this particular title. I wish I could share your enthusiasm.


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#168 of 398 cb1

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Posted December 13 2013 - 07:44 AM

I have no memory of this film as a child, I was born in 11/65. However, I have always been a fan of Mary Poppins since I "re-discovered" it on DVD back in the 1990s.

My review of this classic film is that they did an excellent job on the image and sound. Me and my wife watched it last night and after the ending we both said that it very enjoyable and it looked and sounded awesome.

 

I may have had the children's record of Mary Poppins, because there are certain phrases that bring up memories of my earlier days. Overall, a perfect feel good film for me and my wife.

 

I can't wait for the other live action films from Disney. I'm looking forward to 20k Leagues Beneath the Sea, Treasure Island and Johnny Tremaine.


Thanks!
Chris

#169 of 398 Rob_Ray

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Posted December 13 2013 - 08:15 AM

Yep. Looking at it again right now and I agree. My Blu-ray looks like Mr. Harris's cap.

 

Same here.  I froze the Blu Ray on almost this exact frame and studied it for several minutes.  My screen most closely resembled Mr. Harris' adjusted cap.

 

I have a Panasonic ST60 plasma set to Cinema mode with minor modifications.

 

I couldn't be happier with this transfer.  Practically perfect in every way.



#170 of 398 ThadK

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Posted December 13 2013 - 08:51 AM

Looks like we'll have to go back to waiting for a 35mm screening of a Disney feature if we want to watch it, like in ye olden days.


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#171 of 398 Jeffrey Nelson

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Posted December 13 2013 - 08:56 AM

Color tone shift or no, you can take whatever Stephen Worth says about classic animation to the bank. I really, REALLY wish Disney would stop effing up their classics for the detriment of a new generation. PINOCCHIO and ALICE in particular are shameful botches on Blu. Disney's expensive painstaking film degradations are beyond compare.
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#172 of 398 JohnMor

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Posted December 13 2013 - 09:35 AM

I finally watched it uninterrupted last night (as opposed to my previous spot checking each chapter) and I will say that the skin tones in the animated sequence do take on a VERY pink hue.  Not all the time, though; it varies from shot to shot. Close-ups are ok, but it seems like medium and long shots really exhibit this.  Outside of this sequence, the skin tones were spot on (or spit spot on ;) )



#173 of 398 bigshot

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Posted December 13 2013 - 10:35 AM

The color doesn't really bother me, because it's an even shift that I can correct for. The messed up xerox lines are uncorrectable. That's the problem with this. It sticks out like a sore thumb. The only way you could overlook it is if you don't remember how it used to look and you're used to modern TV animation with crude lines like that.


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#174 of 398 Doug Bull

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Posted December 13 2013 - 01:56 PM

The color doesn't really bother me, because it's an even shift that I can correct for. 

 

Agreed.



#175 of 398 haineshisway

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Posted December 13 2013 - 02:29 PM

From what I can gather, many people who like the Blu-ray admit that there is a push towards blue, cool tones compared to previous releases, but that it's accurate. Screen caps notwithstanding. They know this due to living memory and Disney's own account of how they graded the image.

 

Many feel that the image is brighter, but that it's accurate (i.e. less 'muddy'), for the same reasons.

 

Others, like myself, don't know, but have doubts based on experience viewing Technicolor images. I must be among the 'colour blind' ones.

 

To me,Technicolor creates vivid primary colors, red, green, blue, etc. I see this from numerous other releases from the same or similar periods, including yes, The Ten Commandments, which looks fine to me BTW, and which also has a very strong blue palette during long portions. I don't see that in Mary Poppins. I see primary colors bled from an image that favors blue. 

 

The screen caps posted here probably represent exaggerations in one form or another on each end of the spectrum, but I believe the basic changes to the image in 2013, whether right or wrong, are fairly well represented.

 

I also wish I could live the life of the content with the knowledge that everything is right with the Blu-ray based on 50 (or 40) year old memories and the statements from a press release. Life experience has taught me to be a bit more skeptical and think for myself.

 

I feel pleased for those who feel that 'this is it' regarding the accuracy of this particular title. I wish I could share your enthusiasm.

It's a shame you can't.  Bottom line here is easy: Disney used a dye transfer Technicolor answer print from 1964 as their reference.  Mr. Harris took a frame from an IB print, corrected the hue to account for carbon arc projection and the result for many of us is identical to what's on the Blu-ray and nothing like the cap posted here that's supposedly from the Blu-ray.  There's really not much more to say, I'm afraid.  I'm not sure who said the image was "brighter."  It's not brighter - it's a bit darker than previous home video releases, with excellent contrast.  Everyone is entitled to think what they will but in the end a great disservice is done to Disney and their excellent work on this title.  As to taking to the bank whatever "big shot" says, I'm sure he's extremely knowledgeable but I just don't see what he sees and I doubt that ninety-nine percent of the people viewing would either.  And, as I've said before, watching the Blu-ray and then comparing it to the Technicolor cap posted herein - it's pretty much the same, at least to my eyes.



#176 of 398 JohnMor

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Posted December 13 2013 - 02:42 PM

On my set-up, it's about 50% the "corrected" cap and 50% the "blu-ray" cap.  The first is still too orange-y to represent what I'm seeing, and the second is too blue.  I'm seeing something more in the middle, and it looks great. 


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#177 of 398 bigshot

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Posted December 13 2013 - 04:15 PM

As to taking to the bank whatever "big shot" says, I'm sure he's extremely knowledgeable but I just don't see what he sees and I doubt that ninety-nine percent of the people viewing would either.

 

I posted an example of what vapor fuse xerox looks like. Did you miss that? It's really pretty clear. Xerox looks like pencil lines, with all the sweep, transparency, scratchiness and thicks and thins in the lines, and the lines on the blu-ray look blunt and coarse like they were made with a felt tip pen. Would it be easier for you to see if I gave you more examples?



#178 of 398 haineshisway

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Posted December 13 2013 - 04:23 PM

I don't really want to keep posting about it - I've said what I've had to say and only come back occasionally because I think it's important to keep the record straight about certain things.  I'm sure you're 1000% more knowledgeable than I about animation, about which I know very little, other than having known Don and Fred (Toby) Bluth for close to fifty years now.  But the only thing that would indeed be meaningful is if you posted the original Xerox or cell or whatever examples FROM Mary Poppins, along with a corresponding frame from the Blu-ray - other examples aren't pertinent to me because - they are other examples.  All I know is what I see and what I see is a beautifully rendered animated sequence that looks from where I sit like the frame of 35mm film posted in this thread, the one from Mary Poppins and not some other film.  

 

So, yes, I'd be very interested to see comparisons from Mary Poppins.


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#179 of 398 AnthonyClarke

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Posted December 13 2013 - 04:23 PM

Well, after all this I suppose I'd better order the Blu ray and watch the movie ... for the VERY FIRST TIME!. Surprising that it's taken so long to get around to viewing it, seeing I love musicals so much ....

For me, the great news in this thread is the rumour that Pollyanna (one of my favourite movies of all time) may be next up for release .. here's hoping for a similar transfer miracle, although it's known that the original film material is badly damaged. And Parent Trap after that? A dual-disc with the two versions (Hayley Mills and LIndsay Lohan) would be great. Being a grandfather now (first grandchild is now two weeks old), these will be compulsory purchases.



#180 of 398 Doug Bull

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Posted December 13 2013 - 04:25 PM

  And, as I've said before, watching the Blu-ray and then comparing it to the Technicolor cap posted herein - it's pretty much the same, at least to my eyes.

 

Hmm, very interesting.

Seeing that the carbon arc adjusted clip is NOT from an original American struck print but from a yellow influenced BRITISH Print. :)

 

 

 Doug.







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