Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.


Photo
- - - - -

My dilemma: Panasonic ZT vs. Samsung F8500


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
308 replies to this topic

#241 of 309 OFFLINE   tele1962

tele1962

    Second Unit



  • 494 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 21 2012
  • Real Name:Barry

Posted March 27 2014 - 10:39 PM

Post edited. 

 



#242 of 309 OFFLINE   schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert



  • 15,784 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted March 27 2014 - 10:43 PM

By the way, I told the guy to buy single strand 14awg, 1000 feet.Run two runs of it to a spot mid point of two speakers. Stake there. Run one to wire each to pos on one, neg to the other. Run another single to the other terminals. (Single run wire made simple)The other guy said the series had to go all the way back to the amp. =-O

#243 of 309 OFFLINE   tele1962

tele1962

    Second Unit



  • 494 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 21 2012
  • Real Name:Barry

Posted March 27 2014 - 10:50 PM

Sorry you say they " Stacked the deck" you got me on that one. They only use scientific analysis over on HDTVtest  and I don't see any problem with the review. they said the Samsung goes brighter, but looking at the reviews I think the Panasonic is a better TV???

 

But I am kind of lost here, one minute you are saying there are Trolls on HDTVtest then you are quoting AVS. You have lost me.



#244 of 309 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

FoxyMulder

    映画ファン



  • 5,050 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 14 2009
  • Real Name:Malcolm
  • LocationScotland

Posted March 28 2014 - 12:05 AM

I used to be a member of AVS, i am not anymore, i am a member of this site and HDTV Test, no trolls at these sites, indeed i find this site a pleasure to be a part of because members can actually have a discussion and not worry about getting hit by infractions and bans, same  comment goes for HDTV Test.  If i had known sooner about this site i would have joined sooner.

 

When you treat your members as adults they tend to behave like adults, that's getting off the subject matter but i love this site.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#245 of 309 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

Robert Crawford

    Moderator



  • 25,899 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 09 1998
  • Real Name:Robert
  • LocationMichigan

Posted March 28 2014 - 01:09 AM

I used to be a member of AVS, i am not anymore, i am a member of this site and HDTV Test, no trolls at these sites, indeed i find this site a pleasure to be a part of because members can actually have a discussion and not worry about getting hit by infractions and bans, same  comment goes for HDTV Test.  If i had known sooner about this site i would have joined sooner.

 

When you treat your members as adults they tend to behave like adults, that's getting off the subject matter but i love this site.

Thank you for those kind words as the administrative staff here try's their best so that everybody can express their opinion in a non-hostile environment.


Crawdaddy

 

Blu-ray Preorder Listing

 


#246 of 309 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

Mike Frezon

    Studio Mogul



  • 31,948 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 09 2001
  • LocationRensselaer, NY

Posted March 28 2014 - 01:46 PM

When you treat your members as adults they tend to behave like adults, that's getting off the subject matter but i love this site.

 

 

Thank you for those kind words as the administrative staff here try's their best so that everybody can express their opinion in a non-hostile environment.

 

It is a morale booster to read comments like that.  Many thanks, Malcolm!  :thumbs-up-smiley:


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#247 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 02 2014 - 10:39 AM

Sorry you say they " Stacked the deck" you got me on that one. They only use scientific analysis over on HDTVtest  and I don't see any problem with the review. they said the Samsung goes brighter, but looking at the reviews I think the Panasonic is a better TV???

 

But I am kind of lost here, one minute you are saying there are Trolls on HDTVtest then you are quoting AVS. You have lost me.

 

 

The reason for me stating that they "Stacked the Deck" with the ZT is that they were making comparisons to an older review of an F8500. The problem being that they were comparing a new fully calibrated ZT with updated fixes via Firmware against a first generation F8500's that hadn't had really any Firmware updates as later FW for the F8500 would patch Brightness Pops along with Floating Blacks. So their comparison would be like testing a modded Mustang vs a stock Camaro.

It's just not a fair way of making a direct comparison as they were trying to imply in the article everytime the referred to the F8500's performance.

 

This was my point because they didn't take into account any fixes to bugs at all which i'm confident that HDTVTEST is well aware of these Firmware Updates. For example in the article they say, "intermittent frame skipping" anybody who own's this TV can tell you that this is a Bug and to fix this incorrect Film Cadence which is a result of switching the Film Mode on the fly, all you need to do is stop and restart the movie and proper smooth Film Cadence will be restored.

Because of comments like this it is a Stacked Deck because it's old news that has been addressed.

 

For a fair comparison we need an Updated Review from HDTVTEST for the Samsung F8500 as well. As their article sparked much heated debate across many other forums showing the tricks they use now to try and cheat up their brightness levels at the expense of Clipping their Whiter than Whites to compete with the F8500's White Ouput capability.

 

Which I find hilarious because every VT/ZT owner i've ever talked to say that they don't care about light output or watching anywhere but in a dark cave and yet their have been many clients privately asking their calibrators how to pump up their Light Output. Perhaps they finally realize that Light Output is just as an important factor as Black Levels, afterall the mass consumers certainly agree which is why LCD sales are off the chart with their inferior picture quality to the Plasma's.

And even the Audience made up of Industry Professionals and A/V enthusiasts that voted for the F8500 at the Value Electronics 2013 Shootout obviously agreed giving it the title of the HDTV of the year.



#248 of 309 OFFLINE   David Mackenzie

David Mackenzie

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 26 2005

Posted April 02 2014 - 10:51 AM

Hi Alaskan,

 

We would love to take a look at the most recent F8500 version. Unfortunately we can only review the panel supplied to us and not issue ratings speculatively for fixes that might be applied in the future. Nor can we keep the review samples lying around indefinitely.

 

There is no way we can possibly be any fairer than that.

 

BTW, you refer to "a new fully calibrated ZT against a first generation F8500". 

 

I find this comment a little disingenuous. *ALL* TVs we review are fully calibrated and updated to the latest firmware available to us at the time of the review. The F8500 was also fully calibrated and running the latest firmware.

 

For example in the article they say,

"intermittent frame skipping" anybody who own's this TV can tell you that this is a Bug and to fix this incorrect Film Cadence which is a result of switching the Film Mode on the fly, all you need to do is stop and restart the movie and proper smooth Film Cadence will be restored.

 

This is not correct; there is still an issue with skipping (unrelated to what you're discussing) which we're investigating.

 

Needless to say, since the F8500 is Samsung's last top-end plasma display, we hope they make it as good as they possibly can via firmware while it's still a current model.



#249 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 02 2014 - 11:13 AM

As i'm a current owner of an Updated Samsung F8500, I know for a fact that the "intermittent frame skipping" has been fixed because i've seen this problem before and now we know how to fix it. As you have stated you only know what's going on with a specific model tv when you have it for a review which i'm seeing your last review for the F8500 on 5-1-13 which is nearly a year apart from your latest ZT review.

 

By your own admittance you have not tested this TV in nearly a year since your last review.

 

Secondly unless your F8500 was reviewed with Firmware 1119.1 released on 2-16-14 then you do not have all of the Fixes mentioned above and as such is comparing apples to oranges because the HDTVTEST review was done on 3-23-14 and should include such changes to have a truely fair comparison.

 

This is exactly why I bring this issue up because you are not doing an up to date comparison. If you are going to do a review in this mannor you shouldn't mention anything except what your reviewing as in this case you put out false information not being as up to date as you are with the ZT.

 

In other words you cannot bring up all of the newly devised plans for cheating up the Light Output on the ZT and other upgrades that this tv has enjoyed without putting it on the same level playing field as an up-to-date F8500. As this makes for a biased comparison.

 

This is a fair assessment as i'm only stating the obvious it's not like i'm making this up... these are the Facts.



#250 of 309 OFFLINE   David Mackenzie

David Mackenzie

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 26 2005

Posted April 02 2014 - 11:30 AM

I can see you have an axe to grind :)

 

By your own admittance you have not tested this TV in nearly a year since your last review.

 

We haven't reviewed it since then. I'm still involved with checking performance, but that's all I can say.

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]This is exactly why I bring this issue up because you are not doing an up to date fair comparison.[/color]

 

I'm not sure what you're advocating here - every time one display gets a firmware update, the manufacturers of other similar displays should ship their review samples back to us, at their expense, so we can re-review them, based on their competitors' movements?

 

FYI, the most recent Panasonic Plasma articles run on HDTVtest came about because Panasonic's retail partners made them available for review (plus with their official demise, I think Vincent felt there should be a 'send-off'). Samsung's UK press agency was never as eager for us to check out their plasma product, since LED LCD has been their primary focus for some time now. Re-reviewing the F8500 would be difficult.

 

We would love to buy all the TVs ourselves and have them permanently running against each other in a lab, but not every site has that sort of mega-budget.



#251 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 02 2014 - 12:05 PM

You know i'm actually a big fan of your work over at the V.E.Shootout and in-depth research into screen resolution.

 

Having said that with the two biggest and closest heavyweights in recent years going at it

punch-by-punch I think that we should just keep the rounds as accurate as possible.

 

And as you know people that buy a Flagship TV for $3k expect to have the best along with the most accurate reviews in the business. Don't confuse my passion for knowlege as an attack. I'm a seeker of truth and I will be the first to admit that the VT/ZT owns the night and the F8500 owns the day.

 

I'm comfortable with those Facts, but not keeping up with these major FW changes fixing the bigger Bugs is just not acceptible to me comming from a Professional Review Source such as HDTVTEST.

If they weren't so credible I wouldn't care. But they are up there with Sources that are often referenced. And so I advocate that they continue to be the Leading Source for accurate and up-to-date Reviews.

 

I can easliy go to Panasonic's website and quickly look up their FW updates and see if they had addressed any major Bugs before writing a review, and this was not done in the case on the Sammy.

 

The Facts are the Facts, and as passionate as these two TV owners are about their sets i'm sure you could easily with a single call get one of the owners to bring you their set in exchange for a Free Calibration by some of the best in the business. I'm in Alaska so I offer mine to you anytime just pay for my shipping and leave me with an up to date Calibration.

 

Don't take my comments the wrong way, this is business not personal were talking about a TV afterall.

 

Sincerely



#252 of 309 OFFLINE   David Mackenzie

David Mackenzie

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 26 2005

Posted April 02 2014 - 12:26 PM

That's very kind of you - but I'm not sure it's a good idea to ship a 64" plasma from Alaska to the UK, though - or from Alaska to New York. That would end in tears!



#253 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 02 2014 - 12:35 PM

True well maybe one day i'll get a professional calibrator such as yourself up to the Frozen North because we don't have any within 350 miles! So i'm stuck with Disney WOW for now, and some tips from other A/V sites.



#254 of 309 OFFLINE   RickardL

RickardL

    Second Unit



  • 472 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 2000

Posted April 03 2014 - 01:34 AM

*ALL* TVs we review are fully calibrated and updated to the latest firmware available to us at the time of the review. The F8500 was also fully calibrated and running the latest firmware.

I think I suggested this some time ago but why not include the firmware revision in your reviews?

Then it would be pretty clear what firmware version was used when the review was done.



#255 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 04 2014 - 06:24 AM

From the Samsung Review on 5-1-13 I can tell you that they were using FW.1110 which was the latest FW at the time. As of 2-16-14 were now using 1119.1 version. Some of the major bugs that have been addressed are the Brightness Pops and Floating Blacks which have now been fixed so long as you are using the correct settings. Because it is not a fix all for every setting. Which is exactly why some people still falsely claim that they have issues. However as an owner I can tell you that the problems listed above have been fixed.But I def agree with you that it would be a wise move to include the current FW Version along with the reviewed.

#256 of 309 OFFLINE   RickardL

RickardL

    Second Unit



  • 472 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 2000

Posted April 05 2014 - 02:34 AM

I assume hdtvtest reviewed the European version and the latest fw now in Europe is 1115.

My 64", [color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]manufactured in June, came with fw 1101, I updated to 1103 which was the latest available in the beginning of July 2013.[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]The review was published on 1st of May 2013 so the review sample was probably using 1101 or earlier.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]Edit: the review date is a bit early... 1st of May is even before the HDTV shoot out...[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]but that is what the review says....[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]Here are the European fw revisions that I found:[/color]

1115 February 19

1114 February 3
1113 December 20
1112 November 13
1111 October 22
1110 September 26
1109 September ?
1107 August 14
110? July 26
1103 June 23
1102 May 27


#257 of 309 OFFLINE   AlaskanAVGuy

AlaskanAVGuy

    Agent



  • 30 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 26 2014
  • Real Name:Jeff

Posted April 05 2014 - 05:40 AM

hmm interesting so your latest is 1115 on Feb 19, 2014 in Europe?

While we have 1119.1 on Feb 16, 2014 in America.



#258 of 309 OFFLINE   RickardL

RickardL

    Second Unit



  • 472 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 2000

Posted April 15 2014 - 12:03 AM

 

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]Here are the European fw revisions that I found:[/color]

1116 April 15

1115 February 19

1114 February 3
1113 December 20
1112 November 13
1111 October 22
1110 September 26
1109 September ?
1107 August 14
110? July 26
1103 June 23
1102 May 27

 

1116 available today.

 

I assume the differences in releases are more related to different smart apps being available/updated for different regions and not so much to typical TV performance/functionality fixes/changes.



#259 of 309 OFFLINE   RickardL

RickardL

    Second Unit



  • 472 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 2000

Posted May 02 2014 - 06:04 AM

Updated with 1118:

 

 

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;]Here are the European fw revisions that I found:[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]1118 May 2[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;]1117 April 24[/color]

1116 April 15

1115 February 19

1114 February 3
1113 December 20
1112 November 13
1111 October 22
1110 September 26
1109 September ?
1107 August 14
110? July 26
1103 June 23
1102 May 27


#260 of 309 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul



  • 42,367 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted June 01 2014 - 01:18 AM

I haven't updated this thread in some time...

 

Wanted to return here to say how immensely happy I am with my Samsung F8500.

 

I am so glad I didn't stick with the Panasonic ZT60.  This blows it out of the water with

its brightness levels and ability to still deliver deep blacks.

 

Day after day I sit and continue to be amazed by the picture quality this display produces.

It is so incredible that I am forgiving of the bugs that are still present.  After all, it's a Samsung --

so it's not going to be perfect.

 

I think one of the main reasons that I am so impressed with the picture is the calibration that

Gregg Loewen performed on it.  I couldn't ask for a more picture-perfect display.

 

Anyone looking for a top-of-the-line plasma should seek no further than the F8500.


 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

 Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders  Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

 Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive Click Here for our complete DVD review archive

 Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule  Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users