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Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts


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#1 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 12 2013 - 05:15 PM

Just received the 25-disc set yesterday. The shows look good, considering they were videotaped. I watched a couple of the documentaries and they were well-edited and pretty enlightening. The new interviews range from charming to strangely irrelevant, much like the ones on the Dean Martin Show sets did. (Speaking of which, the bonus episodes included from that series are just the first two discs of the first six-disc Dean Martin Show collection.) The bonus sketches are cleverly presented in that they come from the same episodes as some of the roasts on the same disc, so it allows us to see some of that week's roasters doing other things.

The only real disappointment thus far is that there are music edits. I have only watched a few of the roasts, but the Telly Savalas episode runs about four minutes short and is missing the Good Ship Lollipop montage, as well as Rowan and Martin's entire appearance. I know clearances can be difficult and expensive, but I was hoping that the $250 price would prevent this issue from plaguing the set.

Edited by FanCollector, October 12 2013 - 05:16 PM.


#2 of 81 John Karras

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Posted October 12 2013 - 06:10 PM

Did TL place any kind of disclaimer anywhere on the box regarding edits?



#3 of 81 TonyD

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Posted October 12 2013 - 06:41 PM

Did you buy this from tl.com orfrom the infomercial runni g I n tv?
facebook.com/whotony

#4 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 12 2013 - 06:54 PM

I ordered it from the phone number provided on Time Life/Star Vista's website.

I couldn't find any disclaimers about editing. In fact, the package with the Savalas roast does use the word "complete" in describing the 17 roasts included.

#5 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 13 2013 - 10:57 AM

I checked the other instances I could recall of music being sung or lyrics recited and found these edits:

Lucille Ball: montage before her rebuttal (I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face)

Jackie Gleason: montage before his rebuttal (That's A Plenty)

Bob Hope: Film clip of Hope singing Thanks for the Memory with Shirley Ross

Telly Savalas: montage before his rebuttal (On the Good Ship Lollipop) and Rowan and Martin spot (I Remember It Well)

Frank Sinatra: Part of Gene Kelly's spot including clips from their three movies together

George Burns: Part of Gene Kelly's spot where he sings Our Love is Here to Stay and a clip of Burns and Jack Benny on This Is Your Life (no music)

Those were the edits I could find. It seems as though any film taken from elsewhere was not cleared. Beyond that, some songs were and some were not. (Orson Welles reciting That's Amore was left in, as was Peter Falk and Frank Sinatra's impromptu duet of Bye Bye Blackbird. Burns and Kelly's duets/recitations of Burns's old chestnuts are still included, but they are in the public domain.) Not a huge number, but still a shame. If anyone remembers any other musical performances or film clips from other roasts, let me know and I will check those also.
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#6 of 81 rmw650

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Posted October 13 2013 - 03:02 PM

I don't get any of this then...why are they claiming these are the complete roasts when they obviously aren't? On the VHS versions I still own, on some of the roasts, some of the members of the dais's tributes for their respective Man/Woman of the Hour were edited out, such as Ginger Rogers's tribute to Lucille Ball on her roast. I certainly would have thought the DVDs would make up for these issues, but yet this is another attempt by TL/StarVista of stating one thing and then presenting something entirely different and then they wonder why they get called out in the process by their customers and the fans for these constant mistakes on the most recent releases of Carol Burnett, Mama's Family and now this particular set. 



#7 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 13 2013 - 04:30 PM

Yes, it's a pity that the roasts aren't complete on this ultimate set. The edits on the earlier releases weren't done by the distributor; they were edited that way for broadcast by Greg Garrison for either time or content. Ms. Rogers's spot on the Bob Hope roast for example has never been seen anywhere. So keep your Guthy Renker tapes, as they were all unedited. (Partly because they reportedly didn't clear any of the music or film clips...)

Edited by FanCollector, October 14 2013 - 09:31 AM.


#8 of 81 rmw650

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Posted October 14 2013 - 04:18 PM

That's what i intend to do as those weren't cheap to buy either and it took me almost three years to complete. I treasure those tapes a great deal.



#9 of 81 Gary Seven

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Posted October 15 2013 - 07:24 AM

I picked up the set they sell at Costco, which has a good sampling.  I didn't know or remember the roasts having musical numbers.  I saw not all performers on the dais got up to talk but according to Rich Little, the not so famous stars were edited out if they bombed.  According to him, many did (basically the actors).  Very funny set but the humor is lost on those younger than baby boomers as much of the humor is relevant to that time and the people on the stage.



#10 of 81 Larry.P

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Posted October 16 2013 - 07:52 AM

So keep your Guthy Renker tapes, as they were all unedited. (Partly because they reportedly didn't clear any of the music or film clips...)

Do you know if the original Guthy Renker DVDs were unedited as well, or just the VHS?  I have the Lucille Ball DVD and it still contains "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face".  Was wondering if any of the other old GR DVDs contained edits.



#11 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 16 2013 - 08:43 AM

I had the old set on VHS, so I can't say for certain. It seems unlikely to me that the DVDs would be edited when the tapes from the same company were not, but I could be wrong.

I did check one other spot I remembered: at the Bob Hope roast, Howard Cosell recites lyrics from several songs. The spot is intact on the Time Life set.

#12 of 81 John Karras

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Posted October 16 2013 - 11:48 AM

I had the old set on VHS, so I can't say for certain. It seems unlikely to me that the DVDs would be edited when the tapes from the same company were not, but I could be wrong.

 

It's very likely since clearances for analog media were very different. Once digital media entered the scene, it was a whole new ballgame and publishers could ask for the moon...and often do.



#13 of 81 rmw650

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Posted October 16 2013 - 02:10 PM

Hence why i am definitely keeping my VHS set of this program intact.



#14 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 16 2013 - 03:45 PM

It's very likely since clearances for analog media were very different. Once digital media entered the scene, it was a whole new ballgame and publishers could ask for the moon...and often do.


Why is there a difference between analog and digital media? (Apart from the far greater sales numbers for DVDs in general.) Wouldn't licensing for additional non-televised uses have to be renegotiated no matter what technological format?

#15 of 81 John Karras

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Posted October 16 2013 - 05:35 PM

Why is there a difference between analog and digital media?

Mainly it stems from the introduction of the CD. Content owners screamed that they needed a whole new set of protections because digital media could be copied thousands of times without any noticeable generation loss (copy of a copy of a copy etc.). Analog media degraded with each successive generation. It was a case of "crying wolf", but passage of the Digital Copyright Act gave content owners a license (no pun) to renegotiate all agreements. We won't talk about how the industry immediately abused their  new-found digital rights with a worldwide CD price fixing scam.

 

Bottom line: All content has to be renegotiated for any form of digital distribution, and (in North America at least), there are no industry rate sheets or rules. A 20-second song clip could be priced by the publisher at $2000 or $200,000. Take it or leave it. We've also seen cases where music can't be cleared at any price. It always amazes me how some content owners are unreasonable and would rather have nothing rather than something for their material.



#16 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 16 2013 - 06:45 PM

Yes, the latitude for copyright holders to renegotiate music use in redistributing programs and movies is completely out of control. And you're right about some copyright holders not relicensing at any price; the Rodgers and Hammerstein company is especially uncooperative.

The Guthy Renker roast DVDs should be OK, though. The VHS tapes were not offered for sale until after the Digital Millenium Copyright Act took effect, so the music licensing had to be renegotiated for them also. Since they are unedited, the DVDs probably are as well. The Lucy one checked out. Anyone have the Guthy Renker DVDs of Hope, Burns, Gleason, Savalas, or Sinatra?

#17 of 81 rmw650

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Posted October 17 2013 - 04:33 PM

Yes, the latitude for copyright holders to renegotiate music use in redistributing programs and movies is completely out of control. And you're right about some copyright holders not relicensing at any price; the Rodgers and Hammerstein company is especially uncooperative.

The Guthy Renker roast DVDs should be OK, though. The VHS tapes were not offered for sale until after the Digital Millenium Copyright Act took effect, so the music licensing had to be renegotiated for them also. Since they are unedited, the DVDs probably are as well. The Lucy one checked out. Anyone have the Guthy Renker DVDs of Hope, Burns, Gleason, Savalas, or Sinatra?

So did the Ginger Rogers tribute on the Lucy roast actually show up then on the DVD broadcast? i also heard there was a Demond Wilson piece on the Redd Foxx or Johnny Carson roast that was also eliminated/edited.



#18 of 81 FanCollector

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Posted October 17 2013 - 07:35 PM

Ginger Rogers did appear on the Lucy roast, both on the Guthy Renker VHS and the Time Life DVD. She was cut from the Bob Hope roast in all the versions including, I believe, the original broadcast. Could you have conflated the two roasts, or have you checked recently and found her missing from the Lucy roast?

Demond Wilson appears on the first Redd Foxx roast, which was one of the three never released by Guthy Renker. His spot is intact on the Time Life DVDs, and it's very funny. He was not on the dais for the second Redd Foxx roast. He was also on the Jack Benny roast, and his spot is included in both releases.

#19 of 81 nietseoj

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Posted January 07 2014 - 08:14 AM

Hello - i am looking for the second half of the Telly Savalas roast. (my copy skips, & will not play in any DVD player) Anybody interested in doing a trade ? I have nearly all of the 51 Roasts that were released by Guthy - PLUS i will have (later this week) the Collectors Edition (7 DVD set) which has lots of cool bonus features.  Thanx !



#20 of 81 Shatner's Grim Reaper

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Posted January 07 2014 - 08:22 AM

I only have three of the roasts....(1) Jackie Gleason (2) Frank Sinatra and of course (3) Dean Martin.  I gave all the others away after viewing them.  I think the three kept are sufficient as much of this stuff is soooo redundant.






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