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"The Alamo"s Status?

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#1041 of 1057 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted September 18 2014 - 01:25 AM

Sadly it won't look anything like the Lawrence of Arabia Blu-ray or the upcoming My Fair Lady Blu-ray, but rather may look like something akin to The Greatest Story Every Told Blu-ray. Call me a traitor, but I'll be grateful for at least that much.


It is not really possible to make it look as horrible as TGSET, one would have to try very hard.
Even with a new scan made on the cheap and from 35mm elements they will get better results.

And even though it would be better than what we currently have we don't have to be grateful for them doing too little too late.

Exodus looks OK for being from a 35mm source but it could look so much better. With many lesser large format productions now getting a decent treatment (Circus World for example) one would hope for at least as much for Exodus but then it is an MGM property like The Alamo.
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#1042 of 1057 OFFLINE   Chris Coombs

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Posted October 02 2014 - 10:44 AM

is MGM even making an Alamo bluray, or is that just a rumor?



#1043 of 1057 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted October 02 2014 - 10:48 AM

is MGM even making an Alamo bluray, or is that just a rumor?

 

As far as I can tell it's not even a rumour but wishful thinking.



#1044 of 1057 OFFLINE   Vahan_Nisanain

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Posted October 02 2014 - 11:07 AM

So sad whoever at MGM refuses to support a remaster has never been blacklisted from the industry.

 

So sad whoever at MGM thinks it is good business to refuse to support such a thing, has been allowed to get away with it.

 

So sad whoever at MGM is doing any of this thinks he is above everything.



#1045 of 1057 OFFLINE   sonomatom1

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Posted October 02 2014 - 11:21 AM

Posted August 28 2014 - 09:24 PM

Robert Harris, on 26 Aug 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:snapback.png

From what I'm led to believe, MGM seems to have selected a post-facility, is prepared to create a Blu-ray of the roadshow version, and thereby allow the large format film, and all original elements to die.



"So, they're going to take the only existing roadshow print, digitally color-correct, slap it on a blu-ray and call it a day with no attempt to preserve any of the deteriorating film elements.

I guess there's no way to force them to preserve their own films, sadly. But if the public outcry here and on other sites is the reason for this possible release, then will be better than if they had not done it at all. :-/"


#1046 of 1057 OFFLINE   Dr Griffin

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Posted October 02 2014 - 11:25 AM

is MGM even making an Alamo bluray, or is that just a rumor?

 

 

As far as I can tell it's not even a rumour but wishful thinking.

 

It was surmised from this quote: "We are currently restoring the additional 20 minutes found in the 70 mm ‘roadshow’ version of the film. Once this process is complete, all of the elements of the original content will be intact and there will not be a need for further restoration of the film at this time.” So it could be said this was done as a "preservation" effort, but no word that I am aware of for it being released in any form yet. RAH had stated elsewhere in this thread that it would be more than 20 minutes of roadshow footage, more like 30 or so.

 

Additionally, I read that statement as, we really don't know what we're talking about and we don't want to commit the money it would take to do it right. :mellow:

One more thing, next year is the 55th anniversary! :cheers:  :popcorn:



#1047 of 1057 ONLINE   atfree

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Posted October 02 2014 - 11:36 AM

It was surmised from this quote: "We are currently restoring the additional 20 minutes found in the 70 mm ‘roadshow’ version of the film. Once this process is complete, all of the elements of the original content will be intact and there will not be a need for further restoration of the film at this time.” So it could be said this was done as a "preservation" effort, but no word that I am aware of for it being released in any form yet. RAH had stated elsewhere in this thread that it would be more than 20 minutes of roadshow footage, more like 30 or so.

 

Additionally, I read that statement as, we really don't know what we're talking about and we don't want to commit the money it would take to do it right. :mellow:

One more thing, next year is the 55th anniversary! :cheers:  :popcorn:

This post from RAH a while back is probably where a blu-ray idea was rooted...

 

Latest rumors that I'm hearing are not good.

 

From what I'm led to believe, MGM seems to have selected a post-facility, is prepared to create a Blu-ray of the roadshow version, and thereby allow the large format film, and all original elements to die.

 

Happy 90th!

 

RAH


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#1048 of 1057 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted October 03 2014 - 05:57 AM

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img064.jpg


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"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#1049 of 1057 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted October 03 2014 - 10:31 AM

OK. I see three cameras in the picture above. Are they all 65mm? Are they getting ready to film the next scene?  Or is this just a publicity photo to show they use multiple cameras to film The Alamo.


Roland Lataille
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#1050 of 1057 OFFLINE   Richard Stammer

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Posted October 05 2014 - 05:39 PM

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Just got back to Florida from New Zealand after 8 months away. After living over there with this thread the whole time, I immediately dug out my road show laserdisc and created 2 DL DVDs. They look pretty good - not DVD quality, but very watchable on my Pioneer Elite 60" plasma. It will have to do until Hell freezes over or MGM releases their Blu-Ray. Knowing MGM, Hell will probably freeze over first.
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#1051 of 1057 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted October 06 2014 - 09:35 AM

Watched this for the first time in the cut version at the 70mm Todd-AO festival in Karlsruhe.

 

It was reddish/pinkish already, this picture gives an exaggerated idea of how the print looked, being there it did not look THAT bad:

 

http://www.in70mm.co...es/DSC_2528.htm

 

The sharpness and detail however were very impressive - very good work by cameraman William H. Clothier who shot two of the most detailed 65mm productions I have seen with The Alamo and Cheyenne Autumn.

 

I have Blu-rays from many movies shot in large format but brought to Blu-ray via harvesting standard 35mm elements and they all look disappointing, sometimes very much so (El Cid) and sometimes less (Exodus). To give an idea of the visual splendor of movies shot in 65mm or Super Technirama 70 there must be a harvest from large format elements as close as possible to the original negative and its abundant detail and I hope that will be done for The Alamo, the detail to justify it certainly is there.

 

As far as the content of the movie goes the battle scenes were quite impressive and the speeches less so. John Wayne certainly wasn't the second coming of John Ford or Howard Hawks but overall it struck me as a surprisingly entertaining movie from a rather bad director ;)


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#1052 of 1057 OFFLINE   David_B_K

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Posted October 06 2014 - 09:52 AM

 

 

As far as the content of the movie goes the battle scenes were quite impressive and the speeches less so. John Wayne certainly wasn't the second coming of John Ford or Howard Hawks but overall it struck me as a surprisingly entertaining movie from a rather bad director ;)

 

I think Wayne was pretty good as a director. According to a couple of biographies, he directed more than was ever publicized. Also, due to his clout, he often had a lot of input on films he did not actually direct. Had he not been in the movie, I think The Alamo would have been more impressive. It was a bit much to expect him to helm a massive spectacular while playing a lead role as well. Also, Wayne stuck by his friend James Edward Grant's script, which should have been trashed and replaced with something better. Grant wrote some pretty good scripts in the past for Wayne (Angel & The Badman and Hondo come to mind), and doctored some other scripts. He had a good feel for dialog that suited Duke. By the time of The Alamo, Grant's skills were depleted. Wayne's loyalty to Grant was such that he sacrificed script quality for friendship.


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#1053 of 1057 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted October 06 2014 - 01:59 PM

I think Wayne was pretty good as a director. According to a couple of biographies, he directed more than was ever publicized. Also, due to his clout, he often had a lot of input on films he did not actually direct. Had he not been in the movie, I think The Alamo would have been more impressive. It was a bit much to expect him to helm a massive spectacular while playing a lead role as well. Also, Wayne stuck by his friend James Edward Grant's script, which should have been trashed and replaced with something better. Grant wrote some pretty good scripts in the past for Wayne (Angel & The Badman and Hondo come to mind), and doctored some other scripts. He had a good feel for dialog that suited Duke. By the time of The Alamo, Grant's skills were depleted. Wayne's loyalty to Grant was such that he sacrificed script quality for friendship.

 

Whatever it was imo it was an entertaining movie despite its flaws so stories about Wayne being a bad director seem to be rather exaggerated to me.



#1054 of 1057 OFFLINE   gizzy2000

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Posted October 13 2014 - 10:49 AM

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused on the whole blu ray release. If they're doing a blu ray release (is this for certain?) then would that mean that they're going to just digitally insert the Roadshow footage back in with whatever source they used for previous home video releases, or would they actually be restoring the cut segments of the Roadshow film and letting the rest deteriorate as their statement implied?



#1055 of 1057 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted October 14 2014 - 03:49 AM

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused on the whole blu ray release. If they're doing a blu ray release (is this for certain?) then would that mean that they're going to just digitally insert the Roadshow footage back in with whatever source they used for previous home video releases, or would they actually be restoring the cut segments of the Roadshow film and letting the rest deteriorate as their statement implied?

 

There is the possibility that no photochemical work will be done but that would be necessary to preserve the Alamo in the best possble way and for future generations.

 

So far MGM has not announced anything officially, but there has been some speculation or others would say educated guesses about the possibility of a release on the cheap. Previous examples of cheap and subpar releases of Spartacus or The Greatest Story ever Told show that even a bad release usually is enough to allow the studio to be left alone by most customers and critics just a short while after the release, horrible quality or not.

 

Regarding what will be done with a cheap release that is anyones guess but it seems that there is a 35mm element of the long version that could be prepared with a (for such a movie) very low 5-figure budget. That means that the whole movie would be available in some kind of HD quality but of course not nearly as good looking as possible.



#1056 of 1057 OFFLINE   gizzy2000

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Posted October 14 2014 - 06:13 PM

Regarding what will be done with a cheap release that is anyones guess but it seems that there is a 35mm element of the long version that could be prepared with a (for such a movie) very low 5-figure budget. That means that the whole movie would be available in some kind of HD quality but of course not nearly as good looking as possible.

That's another thing there seems to be some confusion on. Obviously the huge issue is the original 70mm film print that has been allowed to deteriorate to the extreme. Did MGM make duplicates of the original film?



#1057 of 1057 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted October 14 2014 - 11:00 PM

That's another thing there seems to be some confusion on. Obviously the huge issue is the original 70mm film print that has been allowed to deteriorate to the extreme. Did MGM make duplicates of the original film?

 

For the bulk of the film, the general release versin, this is not an issue of film prints of which several still seem to be in existence but of the original 65mm camera negative (OCN) from which new 70mm prints were usually struck in those days and the trims that only continue to exist in indeed 35 and 70mm prints. It seems that more than anything this is an issue of neglect that still continues as there is no movement by MGM towards working with the OCN. It is all in this thread though or at least some links are here that are also helpful for further reading. You should probably take the time to read it from start to finish if you are really interested in The Alamo.

 

The basic issue is however easily described: To do the right thing with the Alamo costs money and MGM is neither willing to pay for it themselves nor do they want to accept outside funding. While nobody really blames them for not having the money themselves there is a certain amount of frustration about the fact that they don't allow outside funding.







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