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THE OTHER

Twilight Time

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#1 of 47 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 10 2013 - 01:34 PM

Just thought this should have its own thread here, as sometimes folks don't visit the review section.

 

The Other is an almost impossible film to pull off due to its literary conceit, which works perfectly in the novel - one of the great literary hat tricks ever and right up there with Ira Levin's hat trick in A Kiss Before Dying, whose film version also struggles to pull off what is almost an impossibility.  I won't say more than that, but anyone who has either read or seen the film of The Other knows whereof I speak.  That said, Mulligan does a wonderful job of trying - the film is beautifully shot, and wonderfully acted and Jerry Goldsmith's score is one of his very best.  But where this Twilight Time Blu-ray really shines is in the transfer - Fox has done glorious work here.  This film's theatrical prints were not so hot, and this is the best this film has ever looked.  The color is completely accurate and glorious, and the film's photography by Robert Surtees is perfectly rendered throughout.  I don't mention any softness or any other issue that is a part of the principal photography of the film because that is irrelevant since it is rendered true to the source, which is all anyone could ask for.  This is a five-star transfer straight down the line and if you love or even like this film, it's a purchase well worth making.  And it's great to have the isolated score track, too, which has several cues that weren't used in the film.

 

 



#2 of 47 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 10 2013 - 02:11 PM

Also, I thought it might be worth mentioning the brouhaha going on on another Blu-ray site, one which thinks it is the only Blu-ray site people frequent, and one which has been so very vocal in their dislike for Twilight Time, regurgitating the same thing over and over and over again in hundreds upon hundreds of pages of postings, most made by the same ten or fifteen people ad nauseum.  I have had people there say the most specious and personal things about me, and when I have responded my posts were removed and I was banned - repeatedly.  

 

Recently, Twilight Time took them off their promo list and now one of their reviewers has posted the reasons, only those reasons have little to do with why the action was taken.  And naturally, there are a lot of brickbats being thrown in the direction of the HTF.  So, let's at least set the record straight.  Here is what their reviewer posted in response to queries about there not being a review of The Other (there since is, so the reviewer obviously bought it):

 

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]"To those who have posted here and sent me so many emails and PMs, here's what's going on in a nutshell: yes, Twilight Time has stopped sending screeners. Mr. Redman has had issues with the fact that (in his perception) so many people here (including some Mr. Redman felt were posting as "official" representatives of the site) post negative comments about his label. [/font]

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]I find this particularly disheartening for several reasons, including the fact that I was among the first champions of the label, being one of the first journalists to interview Mr. Redman about the label and then covering each and every release (giving so many positive reviews that some of you here accused me of being a label shill [/font]Posted Image[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]), and in fact every time Mr. Redman has brought something particularly objectionable to my attention (and there have been some posts here I personally feel have crossed the line), I've attempted to deal with it as quickly as possible. [/font]

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]This all of course ignores the fact that we live in a free society where dissenting opinion is constitutionally protected (even about Blu-ray releases LOL), and it also ignores the fact that the vast majority of posts here are "pro-Twilight Time", which I think ultimately is the real disservice that has been done to our readership. Unlike other sites that censor negative posts, we have a more liberal policy, though I will state up front we have a very active and professional moderation team that keeps things within the bounds of propriety. (The fact that I and the readership are being "punished" for other people's opinions is a bit strange, but I digress.)[/font]

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]The good news here is that I will be picking up occasional Twilight Time releases myself and posting reviews as I have the time. I truly appreciate all the inquiries I've had from those who prefer the Blu-ray.com reviews of this material. It means a lot to receive such generously positive feedback."[/font]

 

 

Point One: Mr. Redman's issue was not in any way with the relentless negative and repetitive posts being lobbed in the Twilight Time direction, and usually by the same people.  As he has said, if he was to stop sending screeners to all the sites where there are negative posts and reviews they'd send out no screeners at all.  That has never been the issue - he gets that it's the same people doing the complaining over and over again.  His issue is not with those people, but with the moderators of that site's board, who fan those flames repeatedly and stir the pot repeatedly.  For my money, that is the exact opposite of what a moderator should do.

 

Point two: When the person who posted says the vast majority of the posts are pro Twilight Time that is especially humorous, as even a perfunctory read over there will tell you the exact opposite.  But it's the moderators who rankled Nick and Brian - even though they will deny it (and amusingly the two mods in question have been conspicuous by their absence since the above post was made), they have nuked many pro Twilight Time posts, they have, as stated, fanned the negative flames relentlessly (two of them in particular and one being the worst) - any negative post is allowed to stand, but something positive gets posted and it's pulled down?  Where is the defense of that?  They will, of course, deny this, but I've watched it happen time and again with my own eyes.  And they banned a poster we all know here, RoClock, and the reason for banning him?  "Banned for being a Twilight Time booster" or words to that effect.  

 

If I posted this same thing in the Twilight Time thread there you can be certain it would be removed instantly, while all the other snarky posts lobbed in my direction would stay.  The bile that is being spilled there even now is breathtaking in its negativity and vindictiveness.  According to these people, most of the Twilight Time sales come from that site.  Really?  All I read is how the majority hate the business model, refuse to pay the prices asked and blah, blah, blah.  I'm sure some sales have come from people who read that site, but they really do think they are the most read site on all the Internet and I think the people calling for a boycott there will result in exactly zero sales being lost.  And yes, there was a boycott Twilight Time thread - it seems to have disappeared because I do think that they ultimately would like to be back on the promo list, which is why I also think those two moderators have been silent since the post was made.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, but why would anyone send people like that screeners when two of the moderators do this negative stuff repeatedly?  As to whether they are owners of the site or not, who knows and it doesn't really matter.  If they are not owners, then the owners should slap them silly and tell them it is not their job to fan the flames of negativity.  If they want to do that it's fine, but not as moderators.  Moderators should be dispassionate and moderate issues between posters.

 

Reading this stuff over there, and especially the negative stuff being said about this site's reviewers and board, is a lesson in why this board, despite the occasional dust-up, is a much more fun place to be.  And yes, there have been plenty of posts that are negative about Twilight Time made here and isn't it funny that the HTF reviewers still get their screeners.  I think that says everything that need be said.  They put down Mr. Harris repeatedly as well as the reviewers here, trumpeting their own.  Really?


Edited by haineshisway, October 10 2013 - 02:26 PM.


#3 of 47 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted October 10 2013 - 02:53 PM

I read a little bit of that earlier today.  When I got to the first couple of remarks about HTF, I only had to think about it for a moment, in the context of this very brouhaha and the flaming opinions being voiced, to once again realize how damned lucky I am to have found and settled into this place a few years ago.  I happen to be very good at finding the things or places or people that are the right ones to have around me or in my life to any extent at all, and I just want to thank those asinine posters over there for making me once again pause and smell the coffee and reflect for a moment on how incredibly good we have it right here.



#4 of 47 OFFLINE   Richard Gallagher

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Posted October 10 2013 - 03:31 PM

I occasionally read reviews at Bluray.com but I have never gotten into their discussion threads. Life is too short. Twilight Time's business model is what it is, and nothing we say or do is going to change it.

 

Twilight Time gets mostly positive reviews for their Blu-ray releases here because most of their releases are very good to excellent. I often get feedback from Nick and Brian and Julie. Nick didn't agree with my middling review of The Disappearance, but we had a friendly back and forth about it, which is as it should be.

 

One nice thing about HTF is that the moderators do get involved when arguments start to get out of hand. As they say, it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.


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#5 of 47 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 10 2013 - 03:39 PM

And now this yokel called hyperrealist, who is one of the worst over there, has invoked me and has the person who made the post I reference above.  I'm being told that I somehow have ties and relations to Twilight Time.  I will not ever post on that sorry site again, even though I can because I have been reinstated for months now, but I don't believe I've shy about saying that Mr. Redman is a former business partner of mine (back in the late 1980s at our label, Bay Cities) and a dear and close friend, but they have repeatedly tried to say that I'm somehow involved in Twilight Time in some other way - because I think they will continue to be successful, I wish that were the case, but it isn't.  But have I occasionally defended both Nick and his company when they've made vile and vicious and personal posts about him - you bet.  Of course, the person who hyperrealist was responding to when he brought my name into it, was really talking about RoClock, acting as if HE had an investment in Twilight Time.  Since I am intimately knowledgeable about the company I can assure you he was a fan and had nothing to do with it, just as I have nothing to do with it other than knowing the players very well.  It's really pathetic.  And yet, all of hyperrealist's vile postings remain - funny that.



#6 of 47 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted October 10 2013 - 04:11 PM

Uhm...did I just die or something? Suddenly, all of this talk about me - as well as on my behalf - in the absent third person. I mean yeeeesh Bruce, at least get the name right! Unfortunately, like most visual puns, it simply doesn't work any other way.

 

In any case, what in the name of all that's cinematically holy does any of this intersite p*ssing have to do with Robert Mulligan's overlooked and underappreciated little occult thriller finally coming to Blu-ray? Mine still hasn't arrived* but that's what I'm interested in reading about on a thread titled The Other. :P

 

* Since I live and work exactly where stated in my profile, and have to wait patiently for next dogsled.



#7 of 47 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 10 2013 - 06:06 PM

Uhm...did I just die or something? Suddenly, all of this talk about me - as well as on my behalf - in the absent third person. I mean yeeeesh Bruce, at least get the name right! Unfortunately, like most visual puns, it simply doesn't work any other way.

 

In any case, what in the name of all that's cinematically holy does any of this intersite p*ssing have to do with Robert Mulligan's overlooked and underappreciated little occult thriller finally coming to Blu-ray? Mine still hasn't arrived* but that's what I'm interested in reading about on a thread titled The Other. :P

 

* Since I live and work exactly where stated in my profile, and have to wait patiently for next dogsled.

Well, you could just say, yeah that happened, because, as you know, it did :)  And I don't think you were happy about it, unless I've been told wrong.  I posted it here because of the obnoxious, smelly comments about this site, which I thought were unfair and really silly.  

 

And you've read plenty about The Other in this thread and you can read more in MattH's review thread, which I wish were on the main page like it used to be.  I always forget about the review threads.  And there you have it.



#8 of 47 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted October 10 2013 - 06:29 PM

Quasi near-apology accepted. :rolleyes:



#9 of 47 OFFLINE   Ejanss

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Posted October 11 2013 - 01:54 AM

I occasionally read reviews at Bluray.com but I have never gotten into their discussion threads. Life is too short. Twilight Time's business model is what it is, and nothing we say or do is going to change it.

 

Although it does need changing.  BADLY.

They adopted their name in honor of all the handwringing about the "death of physical media", and now put out limited niche titles that sell out within days or weeks of their release. 

Boy, it's really wheezing its last gasp, ain't it?  Sure we shouldn't change the name of the company to "Hotcakes", instead?

 

It would be nice if we realized the "twilight" was starting to turn into breaking dawn for the collector-catalog industry (gotta stop with the metaphors, it's reminding me of bad teen movies ;) ), and reevaluated the niche-disk industry--

Maybe if titles could have a limited commercial run, and sellout titles could be brought back as hi-quality Warner-style MOD titles after, say, the usual six-month to a year double-dip absence, at a lower cost, and maybe fewer extras.  Not sure how the third-party title licensing would work in those cases, or how long TT has access to video rights as opposed to studio vaults doing their own MOD's, but it would certainly address the two main fan torch-and-pitchforks:  Future availability and "collector" pricing.  And cooler heads might prevail.

But no.  TT, or at least our public perception of them, is that they want to be stubborn, because they're "mavericks".  And stubbornness isn't exactly the most admirable of qualities, where public PR is concerned.  A little more open dialogue might change their OWN opinion of the industry, and everyone could benefit.

 

And on the subject of The Other, at least the cover, generic as it is, is better than Fox's last DVD release, containing one of the all-time Spoiler-Blab twist-ruining covers:



#10 of 47 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted October 11 2013 - 06:08 AM

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Interesting.  I just would like to state for the record that owners and moderators here do nothing to encourage or censor a particular viewpoint with our reviewers.  Rich and our other reviewers do a fine job and call them like they see them without any interference from us.  We really appreciate the time and effort they put into their reviews and the contributions they make to the site.



#11 of 47 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted October 11 2013 - 06:12 AM

You encourage a place of civility.  And it makes all the difference.



#12 of 47 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted October 11 2013 - 06:32 AM

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Although it does need changing. BADLY.They adopted their name in honor of all the handwringing about the "death of physical media", and now put out limited niche titles that sell out within days or weeks of their release.

As someone who has run businesses, if a business model is not working after three years, then I would have changed it, not added more titles to the same business model. I would believe now that the owners of Twilight Time are perfectly happy with the business model and it is working as they envisioned. It actually has been tweaked some over the past couple of years, so they are looking at it as all good businessmen constantly do. I really expected THE OTHER to be down to limited copies left, but that has not happened yet. It is a good creepy movie and perfect for this time of year.
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#13 of 47 OFFLINE   jmk56

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Posted October 11 2013 - 06:36 AM

As with ROClockCK, I'll speak for myself, thank you very much.  :)  Jeffrey Kauffman from Blu-ray.com here.  As Ron and Adam are only too well aware, not only was I a writer for HTF, I've continued to enjoy an e-quaintance (Trademark) with them.  I am more than happy to print the full text of Mr. Redman's email to me, which clearly states *exactly* what I recounted.  I'd also be happy to print Mr. Redman's other emails to me, frequently obscenity laced rants for which I received numerous email apologies from both Mr. Jamieson and Ms. Kirgo (also all still in my possession).  There have been exactly ZERO  "positive" posts taken down in Blu-ray.com's Twilight Time thread.  Zip, zilch, nada.  The reason we decided to go public yesterday is that I have received literally hundreds of inquiries asking why our reviews of Twilight Time releases hadn't gone live yet.  As I specifically mentioned to Mr. Redman in our very first phone conversation, I was and am more than happy to support the label by purchasing the releases I'm interested in, and that will continue.  But attempting to "spin" this situation is not going to work.  I have the emails, and I also can see each and every moderated post in our Twilight Time thread, and not ONE of them was taken down for being positive.  By the way, I also have emails from a certain Haineshisway lambasting *this* site and specifically one of the owners, but I digress.  Bullying tactics don't work with me.  Thank you for your time. 



#14 of 47 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted October 11 2013 - 07:22 AM

By the way, I also have emails from a certain Haineshisway lambasting *this* site and specifically one of the owners, but I digress. 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]Boy, I can't seem to get a break.   :D[/color] 


 

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#15 of 47 OFFLINE   jmk56

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Posted October 11 2013 - 08:38 AM

P.S.  I actually took time to sort through all 6,861 (as of this morning) posts in our TT thread.  While I may have miscounted one or two, my unofficial tally is 5,742 positive (or neutral, meaning they're things like release announcements), 1,119 negative.  I'll let a math major figure out the percentages.  :)



#16 of 47 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 11 2013 - 09:05 AM

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(242,242,242);]Boy, I can't seem to get a break.   :D[/color] 

Selectivity is, of course, an amusing pastime, Ron, and that is what JMK is doing here.  While he may have an e-mail from me lambasting this here site, it would be from times gone by when I used different names here and when I was a persnickety Internet presence :)  This is no secret.  Since I've been back, well, no.  But we all have e-mails we could print, oh, yes, we all have e-mails we can print, but I'm sure decorum will prevail on THIS site.  But that's not the only selectivity at work here.  

 

I really only made my post here to refute certain things and because of the brickbats being lobbed at this board, which I found amusing and which, of course, someone blithely ignores, along with selectively offering figures from ONE of but many Twilight Time threads.  And I've seen posts disappear, so there's that.  And I've seen what's allowed to stand, including specious personal attacks, so there's that.  If one were to go through the Night of the Living Dead thread alone, well, there's that :)

 

Also ignored completely and selectively, is Mr. Redman's real reason for stopping the screeners - the two moderators who continually fan the flames of discontent, one of them especially relentlessly, so there's that.

 

Back to The Other: I don't remember what the DVD cover was like - did it really spoil?



#17 of 47 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 11 2013 - 09:14 AM

This is exactly why I couldn't give a rats ass about any particular studio.

 

It is about the movies. Plain and simple. I have given equal time to lambasting both TT and Criterion.

 

I don't bemoan TT's business model, what I bemoan was the "Let one person buy a crapload and let them create a false shortage". That has, apparently, been rectified.

 

My Criterion "contempt" stems from cherry-picking titles and leaving many to die and whither. That also stems from people thinking Criterion is already a "niche market". Haha, Criterion being Niche? Laughable...



#18 of 47 OFFLINE   jmk56

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Posted October 11 2013 - 09:22 AM

Before I move on to more important matters, a couple of things.  I can only go by what Mr. Redman himself told me, not what Mr. Kimmel reports secondhand.  I in fact explicitly mentioned Mr. Redman's anger (to put it mildly) over those he deems "officially" associated with the site and their negative comments.  As Mr. Redman is also certainly aware, each and every time an offensive post has been brought to my attention, I've had it removed--immediately or nearly so.  I am on record as having told Mr. Redman and Mr. Jamieson (on multiple occasions) that I personally have found some posts to be completely out of line and I've had them removed as soon as humanly possible.  Moderators are allowed to have opinions on our board, just like anyone else.  Whitesheik's comments may well have been moderated, but that has absolutely nothing to do with his pro-TT stance, but rather his continued (in his own words) "persnickety internet presence."  Mr. Kimmel strikes me as the selective one here, ignoring facts and perhaps understandably defending his friend.    The emails I have from all three Twilight Time principals tell a rather different story.  And at least one of Mr. Kimmel's emails to me regarding this site is in fact quite recent.  Nothing selective about that--just stating pure, unadulterated facts.



#19 of 47 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 11 2013 - 09:23 AM

Oh yeah...differences of how BR.com and "here" reviews and comments are even handled...

 

I have probably given "constructive criticism" to 10 or so BR.com reviews. I go over there for the odd movies. Their main plus is the inclusion of other countries editions.

 

One BR.com review struck me as complete bullshit. The bullshit stemmed from the reviewers contempt(it seemed) from the movie even existing in the first place. The movie was obviously not in his wheelhouse of movies to watch.

 

People who can't review a movie outside their own wheelhouse and see the artistic merit have absolutely no business reviewing movies.

 

Over here, when presented a movie not in their taste...the reviewer has the ability to say so.

 

That is the reason I'd like to review the Bava BD(which one is it again?) and MS. 45.

 

I shiver to think what those two reviews will look like on BR.com...if given to people that don't get the genres.



#20 of 47 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted October 11 2013 - 09:27 AM

For what it's worth, Steve, I've always thought of you as "RoClock" And why on earth would TT change a business model that works? Just becuase it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for them in allowing a sustainable buisness so these titles get released.
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