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A few words about...™ Halloween 35th Anniversary -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#21 of 142 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted September 24 2013 - 01:55 PM

Here is what I think, and this is by no means an official theory...the original prints were very flat and had hazy contrast,  but the color scheme was the same as the new Blu-ray. Look at the original 1998 restoration article on thedigitalbits.com (great read, btw). You can see a comparison shot, which helps my theory.


Edited by moviebuff75, September 24 2013 - 01:56 PM.

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#22 of 142 OFFLINE   bgart13

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Posted September 24 2013 - 03:27 PM

I don't wonder. It's ignorance, technicians doing what they want to do, people who think they know better but actually shouldn't be making the decisions but should be turning the knobs. Happens all the time, probably more often than not.

#23 of 142 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 24 2013 - 03:31 PM

The new disc looks great but the mono track is absolutely not the original one. I can hear the new sound effects from the 5.1 (and presumably 7.1) mix.



#24 of 142 OFFLINE   bgart13

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Posted September 24 2013 - 04:25 PM

You can't make claims like that without supporting evidence. Can you be specific? Times, examples, old VS new?

#25 of 142 OFFLINE   Michael Elliott

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Posted September 24 2013 - 05:09 PM

Has anyone compared the 1999 disc to a television recording from the original NBC broadcast?

 

I think we all agree that the new disc looks great but which version is the correct one is what interests me.  From reading other boards with "experts" and "fans," it appears we'll always have opinions and no true answer.



#26 of 142 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted September 24 2013 - 05:17 PM

Well, there is an audio clip on youtube from a 1979 theatrical screening. There is no clicking of the gun on that version either...at least I can't hear one. Which means that the new mono is most likely the original.


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#27 of 142 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted September 24 2013 - 06:18 PM

The new disc looks great but the mono track is absolutely not the original one. I can hear the new sound effects from the 5.1 (and presumably 7.1) mix.

 

Someone on Blu-ray.com who owns the VHS version of Halloween has compared the mono sound on the tape with the mono sound on the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray.  He says they sound identical.

 

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"]CONFIRMATION! The original original audio track from an 80s VHS tape does NOT have the empty gun click at the end. In fact, it sounds exactly as the original mono track on the 35th anniversary Blu-ray, same mix and everything.[/font][font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(230,235,240);"] [/font]

So there you have it. The new Blu-ray release does indeed have the true original original mono sound mix as was heard in 1978.

 

His full post is here:

 

http://forum.blu-ray...500#post8167500

 

Mark



#28 of 142 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 24 2013 - 06:23 PM

You can't make claims like that without supporting evidence. Can you be specific? Times, examples, old VS new?

I know what the movie sounds like so I know it's wrong but due to undiagnosed mental illness :), I noted the times while watching and then went back to rewatch those scenes. You can hear the 'new' thunder sound effects when Loomis and Marion are driving to pick up Michael that are laughably on the nose (when Loomis says he never wants Michael to get out, the thunder loudly cracks like it does in the DVD's 5.1 mix) at approximately 9:00, Laurie and Tommy's dialogue when they meet and walk to the Myers house is buried underneath the music at approximately 12:00, Laurie's teacher talking about fate is nearly inaudible at approximately 15:00, the laughter of the kids is missing at approximately 26:00 and the gun clicking sound effect is missing at approximately 1:27:00.

 

EDIT: Even if the gun clicking was buried in the music, there is no way that the mono mix ever had the music so much louder than Laurie and Tommy's conversation or nearly drowning out the teacher's dialogue.


Edited by TravisR, September 24 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#29 of 142 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted September 24 2013 - 07:05 PM

For those of you that are convinced the color timing on the 1999 THX DVD is the "correct" color timing (as seen in the original theatrical release), I present evidence to the contrary.

 

The guy on Blu-ray.com that owns the 1980 VHS tape copy took a screenshot (digital rip of the VHS) of the street scene.  It's not the world's best image, and the colors probably appear a brighter than they should, but those trees sure as heck don't look golden yellow!  So, with the 1980 VHS tape as reference, which one of these other three looks closest to the original look of the film?

 

 

1980 VHS Tape:
Posted Image
 
 
1999 THX DVD:
Posted Image
 
 
First Blu-ray:
Posted Image
 
 
35th Anniversary Blu-ray:
Posted Image
 
 
Again, 1980 VHS Tape:
Posted Image
 
 
Winner:  35th Anniversary Blu-ray!
 
The 1999 THX DVD is NOT the way the film originally looked in theaters!
 
Mark

Edited by Mark Booth, September 24 2013 - 07:14 PM.


#30 of 142 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted September 24 2013 - 07:15 PM

Thanks, Mark.  Very interesting. 



#31 of 142 OFFLINE   bgart13

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Posted September 24 2013 - 10:14 PM

Sorry. What does VHS' color abilities have to do with HD?

#32 of 142 OFFLINE   BJQ1972

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Posted September 24 2013 - 10:46 PM

Looking at those screencaps the 1999 DVD certainly looks the most autumnal.

#33 of 142 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted September 25 2013 - 07:10 AM

Sorry. What does VHS' color abilities have to do with HD?

 

So, you are contending that VHS/NTSC wouldn't have the ability to recreate the golden amber leaves in the trees in that scene (as seen in the 1999 THX DVD)?

 

I didn't present the VHS screen shot to prove how "accurate" NTSC color was (or wasn't).  I presented it to show that THERE IS NO HINT WHATSOEVER of any golden amber fall color look in the trees.  In the VHS screen shot, the trees along the parkway have green and light green/yellow leaves, not golden (Fall color) leaves.

 

Several people have claimed (in various forums) that the 1999 THX DVD is the way they remembering it looking in the theater.  That the THX DVD is THE correct color timing.  But the 1980 VHS (released back when color timing wasn't monkeyed with the way it is these days) proves that the original release had color timing closest to what we see on the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray release.

 

People can accept that, or continue to believe whatever they want to believe.

 

Mark



#34 of 142 OFFLINE   JoshZ

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Posted September 25 2013 - 07:45 AM

No offense, Mark, but I can't fathom how you have concluded that a crappy VHS transfer is "accurate" to the original theatrical look of the film based on nothing other than the fact that it was the first video transfer for the movie.


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#35 of 142 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 25 2013 - 08:10 AM

Several people have claimed (in various forums) that the 1999 THX DVD is the way they remembering it looking in the theater.  That the THX DVD is THE correct color timing.  But the 1980 VHS (released back when color timing wasn't monkeyed with the way it is these days) proves that the original release had color timing closest to what we see on the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray release.

I like Cundey's 1999 recoloring but I don't believe that the movie looked like that in 1978. However, there's no reason to think that the VHS is what the movie looked like in theaters either.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the new disc looks great and the 7.1 mix sounds fine. The only real problem with this release is that the mono track is not the original soundtrack.



#36 of 142 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted September 25 2013 - 09:39 AM

No offense, Mark, but I can't fathom how you have concluded that a crappy VHS transfer is "accurate" to the original theatrical look of the film based on nothing other than the fact that it was the first video transfer for the movie.

 

I tend to look at things in a logical fashion.  So, we have three transfers that show green/yellow trees in that scene..  VHS, 1st Blu-ray and 35th Anniversary Blu-ray.  Only the 1999 THX DVD shows golden/yellow trees in that scene.

 

Our experience also tells us that video tape and Laserdisc transfers back in the early 1980s had a LOT less monkeying around done to them.  They simply didn't have the same level of tools back then.  It wasn't until we entered the digital realm (DVD) that we started seeing an explosion in edge enhancement, color timing changes, etc.

 

Given the above, which seems more likely...  That the coloring of the trees in the VHS tape is wrong, or that the 1999 THX DVD is a "revisionist" representation of the film?

 

Yes, the THX DVD was approved by Cundey, but so was the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray!

 

My preference for ALL Blu-ray transfers is that they recreate the ORIGINAL look of the film as closely as possible.  The way it was presented in its theatrical run.  And, given the above, logic tells me that it is FAR more likely that VHS transfer is more representative to what the film looked like in theaters.  The VHS was released just 2 years after the film's release.

 

And, finally, we have the answer from Dean Cundey himself!!  Here's part of an interview with Cundey, published on Sept 8, 2013:

 

 

 

Q: What was the process like of putting together the Halloween 35th Anniversary Blu-ray?

 

A: Well, it was actually pretty straightforward.  I'd been disappointed by the fact that so many previous issuances of that, but also other films, they didn't call me in, they just said "well, we've got a print here, we'll just make it look like that." And by the time they got to making the second or third version of a film on a DVD, the iterations that they had gone through, somebody would subtly brighten up the film because the felling was "well, it's going to be on somebody's TV" and then the next guy would say "well, it's brighter but it looks like it's too blue" so over a period of two or three versions, the look would change, and so the fact they called me in to recreate the original look and feeling, it was a great thing to sort of protect all of our original visions.

 

Source article: http://www.horrorbid...p?f=279&t=24807

 

Cundey on the transfer for the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray: "...so the fact they called me in to recreate the original look and feeling, it was a great thing to sort of protect all of our original visions."

 

Right out of the mouth of the cinematographer, the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray is the definitive look and feel of the film.

 

Isn't it time to end this argument?

 

Mark


Edited by Mark Booth, September 25 2013 - 09:42 AM.


#37 of 142 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

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Posted September 25 2013 - 10:23 AM

I tend to look at things in a logical fashion.  So, we have three transfers that show green/yellow trees in that scene..  VHS, 1st Blu-ray and 35th Anniversary Blu-ray.  Only the 1999 THX DVD shows golden/yellow trees in that scene.

 

Our experience also tells us that video tape and Laserdisc transfers back in the early 1980s had a LOT less monkeying around done to them.  They simply didn't have the same level of tools back then.  It wasn't until we entered the digital realm (DVD) that we started seeing an explosion in edge enhancement, color timing changes, etc.

 

 

Well said.


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#38 of 142 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 25 2013 - 10:31 AM

Isn't it time to end this argument?

I'm not trying to argue with you but I think people are taking issue with you saying that the VHS is an indication of what the movie looked like in theaters and not the look of the new disc.



#39 of 142 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted September 25 2013 - 10:38 AM

I'm not trying to argue with you but I think people are taking issue with you saying that the VHS is an indication of what the movie looked like in theaters and not the look of the new disc.

 

I'm simply arguing that the odds are higher that the VHS is more likely to be closer to the color timing of the theatrical release compared to the COMPLETELY different color timing of the 1999 THX DVD.

 

And, between the THX DVD, the first Blu-ray, and the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray, it's the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray that is closest to the VHS.

 

But it's all a moot point since I found that interview with Cundey.  He says the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray transfer is the original look and feel, their original vision.  Case closed.

 

Mark



#40 of 142 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted September 25 2013 - 10:44 AM

But it's all a moot point since I found that interview with Cundey.  He says the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray transfer is the original look and feel, their original vision.  Case closed.

I'm glad to read confirmation one way or the other. It won't happen but I hope people stop talking about the video and start talking about the messed up mono audio.







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