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A few words about...™ The Wizard of Oz 3D -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About Warner

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#21 of 60 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted September 22 2013 - 02:18 PM

Does the new 2D disc feature a DTS HD track, or is it the same Dolby True HD track. Leaving the DTS HD audio on the 3D edition only?

 

The 2D disc offers DTS-HD MA 5.1 and Dolby Digital monaural...


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#22 of 60 OFFLINE   Lockjaw

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Posted September 22 2013 - 06:54 PM

The 2D disc offers DTS-HD MA 5.1 and Dolby Digital monaural...

Do you know this for sure? Because there have been disturbing rumors the 2D version is the old transfer with the old TrueHD !!

 

I sure hope you are right!!



#23 of 60 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted September 22 2013 - 07:51 PM

Yes, I know this for sure - I watched the disc myself.

 

I believe it's the same transfer but it uses a different audio encoding...


Edited by Colin Jacobson, September 22 2013 - 07:52 PM.

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#24 of 60 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted September 22 2013 - 08:14 PM

If the glitch is there, it's the same transfer. So, the 3D version gets extra cleanup with scratches removed during the opening credits, better sepia, and no glitches...and the original is now technically inferior due to said mistakes.


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#25 of 60 OFFLINE   Lockjaw

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Posted September 22 2013 - 08:45 PM

Yes, I know this for sure - I watched the disc myself.

 

I believe it's the same transfer but it uses a different audio encoding...

Okay, thanks that's great on the audio, but by saying it's the same video transfer you are in effect saying it's NOT the same new transfer they used for the 3D version---which corrects a couple of problems from the 2009 release.

 

These problems are scratches in the opening credits and a technical glitch as Glinda leaves the munchkin city in her bubble where the picture freezes momentarily as the munchkins rush to wave goodbye. It's subtle but there in the 2009 version.

 

  People who have seen the 3D version in the theater say it has been fixed in the 3D transfer.

 

Do you own the 2009 version and can you compare if it's not a problem?

 

I know this is pretty trivial stuff to some, but for a few folks who don't own a 3D TV it makes the difference between buying the new 3d version or sticking with the 2009 Blu-ray which was very good except for these minor glitches.

 

As for me, I gave away my 2009 copy and knowing they at least went to a new DTS-MA audio track makes it worthwhile.

At any rate I appreciate your confirmation of the Audio !! Many thanks.


Edited by Lockjaw, September 22 2013 - 08:45 PM.


#26 of 60 OFFLINE   Stephen Brooks

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Posted September 22 2013 - 09:46 PM

Did they really do a brand-new 8K scan prior to the conversion? What could possibly be improved on the 8K scan from just a few years ago?


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#27 of 60 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted September 22 2013 - 10:40 PM

If the glitch is there, it's the same transfer. So, the 3D version gets extra cleanup with scratches removed during the opening credits, better sepia, and no glitches...and the original is now technically inferior due to said mistakes.

 

It probably also gets grain reduction, well actually it gets complete grain removal which is needed for the 3D treatment, hopefully they gave some film texture back even if it is artificial, as for the Dolby True HD vs DTS Master Audio nonsense, the only thing which will make a difference there is a brand new sound mix and not because the lossless codec is different.

 

@Stephen

 

That was an internet myth, the scan from a few years back was done at 4K.


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#28 of 60 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted September 23 2013 - 05:21 AM

Did they really do a brand-new 8K scan prior to the conversion? What could possibly be improved on the 8K scan from just a few years ago?

 

Yes, they did a new Northlight scan in 8k.  I'm not an expert on taking films to 3D, but one might presume that it allows just the slightest bump in resolution, as they work in 4k.

 

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#29 of 60 OFFLINE   Lockjaw

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Posted September 23 2013 - 07:45 AM

................. as for the Dolby True HD vs DTS Master Audio nonsense, the only thing which will make a difference there is a brand new sound mix and not because the lossless codec is different.

 

 

Exactly, if they use the old True HD---then for sure it is old sound mix, but if it is DTS-MA then there is the possibility of a new sound mix--which is what I was hoping for.



#30 of 60 OFFLINE   bryan4999

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Posted September 23 2013 - 08:35 AM

I saw the IMAX presentation yesterday. I was impressed with how respectfully they treated the film. I think they could have made it gimmicky, which they didn't. In fact, there were a few moments that I thought a "pop-out" would have been appropriate where they didn't take the opportunity.

 

Unfortunately, and this may have been specific to the venue where I saw it, the colors seemed muted, and it had a rather "cold" look. There was some ghosting, particularly during the Tin Man's dance and often when the background was "busy". Also, the sound was almost unbearably loud, and the high frequencies were torture. I finally tore a few pieces off a tissue and stuffed them in my ears. I should add that I have a high powered sound system at home and enjoy playing soundtracks at a robust level, but this was like a rock concert. That 1939 soundtrack just couldn't take it. The IMAX intro was awesome, in sepia tone and 1.33 ratio to match the film. Terrific 3-D there.

 

I have to admit to a bit of sticker shock at $18 for a matinee ticket. The theater was about one third full. I really believe that if Warners ran an aggressive television ad campaign they could fill theaters, even if for only one week. It was obvious that there was a great deal of affection for the movie in that auditorium.

 

Personally, while I think this was a well-done effort, I do not think that WoZ needs 3-D.


Edited by bryan4999, September 23 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#31 of 60 OFFLINE   David Weicker

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Posted September 23 2013 - 09:42 AM

I also saw the IMAX presentation, and came away unimpressed.

I don't feel they 'ruined' the film, or there was anything bad. In fact, I felt it was a very respectful, subtle conversion.

And that was the problem. For the majority of the film, I really didn't notice any 3D. Oh yes, it was there. I knew there was a bit of additional depth, but most of the time it didn't feel different from the regular 2D.

I came away thinking I had just wasted $15 for what seemed to me the same presentation as the current 2D. It all felt pointless. I expected more


There were also audio-sync problems at my showing. Especially noticeable in the two 'knocking' scenes (Tin Man's chest, Emerald City front gate). This might be a theater (Woodfield - Chicago area) thing , but it was there

#32 of 60 OFFLINE   Virgoan

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Posted September 23 2013 - 12:10 PM

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I, too, have seen the IMAX 3-d of this wonderful film and it was a whole new and eye-opening experience for me.  The 3-D is quite wonderful.  I've seen the film many dozens (if not hundreds) of times over the years, yet in this IMAX 3-D presentation I saw things I'd never noticed before.  The most wonderful aspect for me was that I truly felt I was on a vast soundstage, especially during the sepia section.  That's not a negative, at least not for me.  It gave the opening sequences more interest for the eye and spatial perception. The MGM logo surely did pop, as did the lettering of the title.

 

In Oz, the colors popped.  No loss of color, no dimming, it was exceptional projection.  The sound levels were perfect and there were no synch problems of any kind.

 

What amazed me were the number of closeups of characters.  I'd never noted how many closeups the actors had in this film.  When the Munchkins come out of hiding, we are treated to wonderful depth as the little heads and hats pop up at different distances.  Glinda's pink bubble gets attention, too and is more than just some effect on the screen that grows larger and larger.  You feel as if it is moving closer and closer before Glinda materializes.   And, boy howdy, are we ever treated to incredible details of Glinda's costume.  In one scene, I began worrying that Dorothy's skirt might blow up in a sudden gust of wind, so real did the 3-D make it look. 

 

Also quite wonderful is the depth/dimensionality given to the backdrops....we all KNOW they are painted.  We all KNOW that if Judy skips just a few more feet she'll slam into a backdrop.   But in the IMAX 3-D, the backdrops were given depth...the paintings stand out.  Those patchwork hills have dimension.  When you're on the yellow brick road and walking through forests, you see many difference dimensions among the limbs...true depth is achieved.  The fields of poppies are wonderful.

 

The hallway into the wizard's throne room is immense and deep.  Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

 

Ditto the trek into the Wicked Witch of the West's domain...the rocks outside the castle, the steps inside the castle.  All sorts of details emerge without being overpowering.

 

It was a most unique experience for me.  I loved it, and I highly recommend it to anyone who loves the film and is intrigued at what technology can do to enhance a wonderful film.


Edited by Virgoan, September 23 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#33 of 60 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted September 23 2013 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for such an in-depth description. Reading it made me feel as if I had been there to see it myself.



#34 of 60 OFFLINE   lukejosephchung

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Posted September 23 2013 - 01:10 PM

For 3D fans who can't wait for this, Best Buy has broken street date and is already selling their retail stock at their B&M locations...I'm being a good boy and waiting for my copy to arrive from Amazon next week... :P



#35 of 60 OFFLINE   SFMike

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Posted September 23 2013 - 01:36 PM

We went to see the 75th anniversary re-release of The Wizard of OZ in IMAX 3D. Wow...what a great restoration and even better conversion into 3D. The IMAX image was so bright and colorful that is was hard to believe the movie was so old. This film (and Titanic) should also put to rest the idea that 2D to 3D film conversions do not work well. Warner Brothers and Prime Focus have done a masterful job in bringing this project to us in truly stunning 3D. Like Virgoan I was very impressed with the way the painted backdrops/mattes were converted. Also finally, Glinda's bubbles appear round...the flat looking bubbles have bothered me since I was 5 years old. If this is one of your favorite movies you owe to yourself to catch this "one week only" showing at your local IMAX theater.


#36 of 60 OFFLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted September 23 2013 - 02:55 PM

Also, the sound was almost unbearably loud, and the high frequencies were torture. I finally tore a few pieces off a tissue and stuffed them in my ears. I should add that I have a high powered sound system at home and enjoy playing soundtracks at a robust level, but this was like a rock concert. That 1939 soundtrack just couldn't take it. The IMAX intro was awesome, in sepia tone and 1.33 ratio to match the film. Terrific 3-D there.

 

Actually, this was the one false note (literally) during my IMAX 3D viewing too...a sound level riding w-a-y too high throughout. I thought this was just a choice unique to our venue, but your experience suggests a juiced sound spec throughout the chain.

 

Sometimes the side effect of the overall sound boost was very effective (e.g. the thunderous low end throughout the tornado sequence). I've survived a real tornado and that soundscape was eerily accurate...in fact, those scenes have never played with such visceral terror, as originally intended. But for the rest of this movie, those dialled-to-11 sound levels were really annoying...especially during the softer, sweeter moments. Evidently someone at IMAX thought this gentle musical fantasy should sound like Transformers.

 

FWIW, I didn't detect any serious audio sync problems during our showing, but I was so transfixed by the 3D visuals I could have easily missed something.  



#37 of 60 OFFLINE   Charles Smith

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Posted September 23 2013 - 03:16 PM

I, too, have seen the IMAX 3-d of this wonderful film and it was a whole new and eye-opening experience for me.  The 3-D is quite wonderful.  I've seen the film many dozens (if not hundreds) of times over the years, yet in this IMAX 3-D presentation I saw things I'd never noticed before.  The most wonderful aspect for me was that I truly felt I was on a vast soundstage, especially during the sepia section.  That's not a negative, at least not for me.  It gave the opening sequences more interest for the eye and spatial perception. The MGM logo surely did pop, as did the lettering of the title.

 

In Oz, the colors popped.  No loss of color, no dimming, it was exceptional projection.  The sound levels were perfect and there were no synch problems of any kind.

 

What amazed me were the number of closeups of characters.  I'd never noted how many closeups the actors had in this film.  When the Munchkins come out of hiding, we are treated to wonderful depth as the little heads and hats pop up at different distances.  Glinda's pink bubble gets attention, too and is more than just some effect on the screen that grows larger and larger.  You feel as if it is moving closer and closer before Glinda materializes.   And, boy howdy, are we ever treated to incredible details of Glinda's costume.  In one scene, I began worrying that Dorothy's skirt might blow up in a sudden gust of wind, so real did the 3-D make it look. 

 

Also quite wonderful is the depth/dimensionality given to the backdrops....we all KNOW they are painted.  We all KNOW that if Judy skips just a few more feet she'll slam into a backdrop.   But in the IMAX 3-D, the backdrops were given depth...the paintings stand out.  Those patchwork hills have dimension.  When you're on the yellow brick road and walking through forests, you see many difference dimensions among the limbs...true depth is achieved.  The fields of poppies are wonderful.

 

The hallway into the wizard's throne room is immense and deep.  Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

 

Ditto the trek into the Wicked Witch of the West's domain...the rocks outside the castle, the steps inside the castle.  All sorts of details emerge without being overpowering.

 

It was a most unique experience for me.  I loved it, and I highly recommend it to anyone who loves the film and is intrigued at what technology can do to enhance a wonderful film.

 

Just got back, and:   DITTO.  

 

A wonderful conversion, and another flawless presentation at my local Loews which continues to hit 'em out of the park -- The Birds, Lawrence of Arabia, Cleopatra, etc. -- all beautiful.  Never a complaint.  

 

Knocking wood.



#38 of 60 OFFLINE   moviebuff75

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Posted September 23 2013 - 07:22 PM

1998 quote from Ned Price:

“I want to stress very strongly that this track is not a replacement for the original by any means. It’s just an alternate version for theatrical release.”

Read more: http://www.seneschal...l#ixzz2fmE2CXtX
 


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#39 of 60 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted September 23 2013 - 07:32 PM

Okay, thanks that's great on the audio, but by saying it's the same video transfer you are in effect saying it's NOT the same new transfer they used for the 3D version---which corrects a couple of problems from the 2009 release.

 

These problems are scratches in the opening credits and a technical glitch as Glinda leaves the munchkin city in her bubble where the picture freezes momentarily as the munchkins rush to wave goodbye. It's subtle but there in the 2009 version.

 

  People who have seen the 3D version in the theater say it has been fixed in the 3D transfer.

 

Do you own the 2009 version and can you compare if it's not a problem?

 

I know this is pretty trivial stuff to some, but for a few folks who don't own a 3D TV it makes the difference between buying the new 3d version or sticking with the 2009 Blu-ray which was very good except for these minor glitches.

 

As for me, I gave away my 2009 copy and knowing they at least went to a new DTS-MA audio track makes it worthwhile.

At any rate I appreciate your confirmation of the Audio !! Many thanks.

 

I did compare to the 2009 disc - other than the change to DTS-HD, they're as identical as identical can be...


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#40 of 60 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted September 23 2013 - 07:44 PM

Exactly, if they use the old True HD---then for sure it is old sound mix, but if it is DTS-MA then there is the possibility of a new sound mix--which is what I was hoping for.

 

Is it possible that there are some mix differences between the 2009 TrueHD and the 2013 DTS-HD tracks?  Sure, but don't hold your breath.  I didn't hear anything in the DTS mix that made me think it differed/improved on the TrueHD one - and since it still has the same missing line of dialogue, odds are very good that it's the same source simply re-encoded for DTS-HD.

 

Seriously, I believe the only reason to repurchase this movie would be to get the 3D version.  The visuals are absolutely identical, and I believe the audio is identical as well. The new documentary is nice but not revelatory - it's just another general overview of the film's creation and release.

 

It's a nice package but not necessary for fans who own the old one and who don't care about 3D...


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