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Apple iPhone 5S/5C Event: Everything You Need To Know


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#21 of 124 mattCR

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:10 AM

No optical image stabilization.. stabilization will be digital only.. (Engadget)


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#22 of 124 Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:10 AM

That's it?  No Apple TV software update news?  

 

That is a really short Keynote Event


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#23 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:16 AM

My DSLR is the 16ish megapixel full frame D4. There is a reason it has half the pixels of an entry level d3200. Tech heads buy megapixels, photographers buy the best pixels money can buy.

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#24 of 124 mattCR

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:17 AM

So, let's cover the bases as I see it: 

 

Big Upgrade: IOS7.

Motion Sensors.

Full 64 bit.

Thumbnail security (I'll wait for that to go wrong..)

 

Big Letdowns:   No idea on Camera MP, but even if you go with the idea sensor count matters (and it does) Apple's sensor is still smaller then the Galaxy III, way smaller then Nokia 1020.. and Samsung has another offering due soon.

 

New fitness apps coming (Woo-hoo!  fitness apps!  they always move the market)

 

What is missing:

NO NFC.   How do you introduce a phone now without highlighting NFC!?!?!  

 

My DSLR is the 16ish megapixel full frame D4. There is a reason it has half the pixels of an entry level d3200. Tech heads buy megapixels, photographers buy the best pixels money can buy.         

 

So, lots of photo people will be lured by a 5S with apparently a still 8 Megapixel camera with a photographic input lens that is significantly smaller then either of it's competitors?   That's not a techie issue, that's just a real world issue.    If you have a better, wider lens for more optical input and you have optical stabilization.. VS apple, which is giving you digital only stabilization, a smaller lens and less megapixel, do you really think they pull off incredible camera buffs because they can do 120fps in 720p video? 


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#25 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:18 AM

NFC is dead. Only tech heads want or will use it.

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#26 of 124 Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:20 AM

Apple Store back up.  They are stating 8MP camera

 

Since someone mentioned it, the next Samsung offering, The Galaxy Note III, is 13MP

 

Sam would be in a better position to talk about which would be a better camera as far

as sensor size is concerned.  Certainly Apple has something going with their TrueFlash 

technology.


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#27 of 124 Mike Frezon

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:22 AM

iPhone 4,4s and 5 are dead!!!

 

 

iPhone 4S death sentence revoked, $0

 

Forgive my stupidity, Sam...but what is the deeper meaning of these posts? 

 

I've got a 4S.  What does today's announcement mean for me?  Or, do your comments just refer to would-be new phone buyers? 


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#28 of 124 mattCR

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:23 AM

NFC is dead. Only tech heads want or will use it.

 

 

:)   Keep defending the faith Sam.   Only every Android and WP and even Blackberry user gets it.   And, frankly, once you've used it.. it's pretty awesome.  I wouldn't go back to not having it... or wireless charging.. how is it that Nokia and Samsung are both letting their phones charge wirelessly, NFC, better cameras.. Apple roles out a phone upgrade with an 8MP camera with no optical stabilization.... wow.

 

On the other hand, I guess if Apple just wants to write off the tech heads, maybe that will work for them.  They can start just living on brand name and selling to people who 'hear it's good'.  


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#29 of 124 Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 10 2013 - 10:26 AM

And docks return for the 5C and 5S

 

screen-shot-2013-09-10-at-2-20-02-pm.png

 

 


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#30 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:09 AM

MQs!

 

So, lots of photo people will be lured by a 5S with apparently a still 8 Megapixel camera with a photographic input lens that is significantly smaller then either of it's competitors?   That's not a techie issue, that's just a real world issue.    If you have a better, wider lens for more optical input and you have optical stabilization.. VS apple, which is giving you digital only stabilization, a smaller lens and less megapixel, do you really think they pull off incredible camera buffs because they can do 120fps in 720p video? 

 

Just a reminder, the iPhone 5 is the most used camera on both Flickr and 500px.  Not phone camera, cameras period.  I expect it will be quickly eclipsed by the 5c, will be interesting to see if the 5S ranks but I don't think it will be up there.  People use GOOD ENOUGH when it is handy.  Tech heads have many other choices available to them, but the average person is going to be THRILLED with the new 5S camera if they choose to buy it over the 5C.  I think the 5S is going to be niche and 5C mainstream. 

 

Forgive my stupidity, Sam...but what is the deeper meaning of these posts? 

 

I've got a 4S.  What does today's announcement mean for me?  Or, do your comments just refer to would-be new phone buyers? 

 

Right, it means nothing to you, only that nobody can buy them any more.

 

:)   Keep defending the faith Sam.   Only every Android and WP and even Blackberry user gets it.   And, frankly, once you've used it.. it's pretty awesome.  I wouldn't go back to not having it... or wireless charging.. how is it that Nokia and Samsung are both letting their phones charge wirelessly, NFC, better cameras.. Apple roles out a phone upgrade with an 8MP camera with no optical stabilization.... wow.

 

On the other hand, I guess if Apple just wants to write off the tech heads, maybe that will work for them.  They can start just living on brand name and selling to people who 'hear it's good'.  

 

Again, it comes back to upgrades on what matters and not just pointless shit that excites tech heads and not the average user.

Natural flash, wide aperture, high quality pixels and software that picks the best of 10 frames for you?  Regular people will lose their heads over that.

NFC?  Regular people will ask "when the hell would I ever use this".

 

You don't need more than 6 megapixels or so to print 16x20.  More megapixels gives you more room to crop of course but that means that you are wasting bandwidth and storage space on every picture you never crop.  Cropping is a labor of love for photographers that expends time and mental energy.  Joe Average isn't going to crop more than a very very small percentage of every shot they take.

 

WARNING.  Pogue / Rockwell alert!

http://www.kenrockwe...tech/mpmyth.htm

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

 

http://gizmodo.com/5...els-dont-matter

http://arstechnica.c...megapixel-race/

http://www.slrlounge...-megapixel-myth

 

Edited to add:  I expect Apple will eventually add OIS.  I will love it when they do.  I don't miss it in the meantime because THEY MADE SMART CHOICES to put a wide aperture lens and fat pixels that works great in low light as is.  If you have a bunch of megapixels stuffed onto a sensor you NEED OIS (and the energy it burns physically moving the lens around) to make up for that choice. 


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#31 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:15 AM

Re; ATV and iPad

 

That's it?  No Apple TV software update news?  

 

That is a really short Keynote Event

 

Agreed, but this was expected.  Get the mad dash for 20 million iPhones out of the way in mid september and introduce ATV and iPad updates in October / November in time for Holidays.

 

I CANNOT wait for iPad to get this new processor, an updated graphics chip, and OGL ES 3.  Big changes in there that will be great for mobile gaming.

 

Will be see a real Apple TV this year?  Dunno.  I'd say no.


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#32 of 124 mattCR

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:17 AM

MQs!


Just a reminder, the iPhone 5 is the most used camera on both Flickr and 500px. Not phone camera, cameras period. I expect it will be quickly eclipsed by the 5c, will be interesting to see if the 5S ranks but I don't think it will be up there. People use GOOD ENOUGH when it is handy. Tech heads have many other choices available to them, but the average person is going to be THRILLED with the new 5S camera if they choose to buy it over the 5C. I think the 5S is going to be niche and 5C mainstream.


Right, it means nothing to you, only that nobody can buy them any more.


Again, it comes back to upgrades on what matters and not just pointless shit that excites tech heads and not the average user.
Natural flash, wide aperture, high quality pixels and software that picks the best of 10 frames for you? Regular people will lose their heads over that.
NFC? Regular people will ask "when the hell would I ever use this".

You don't need more than 6 megapixels or so to print 16x20. More megapixels gives you more room to crop of course but that means that you are wasting bandwidth and storage space on every picture you never crop. Cropping is a labor of love for photographers that expends time and mental energy. Joe Average isn't going to crop more than a very very small percentage of every shot they take.

WARNING. Pogue / Rockwell alert!
http://www.kenrockwe...tech/mpmyth.htm
http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

http://gizmodo.com/5...els-dont-matter
http://arstechnica.c...megapixel-race/
http://www.slrlounge...-megapixel-myth

Edited to add: I expect Apple will eventually add OIS. I will love it when they do. I don't miss it in the meantime because THEY MADE SMART CHOICES to put a wide aperture lens and fat pixels that works great in low light as is. If you have a bunch of megapixels stuffed onto a sensor you NEED OIS (and the energy it burns physically moving the lens around) to make up for that choice.


Sam-

Nokia has inbuilt camera that picks the best shots for you in rapid sequence and has for a while and an android app does the same

We'll judge high quality pixels in a shoot out. But if they show their 8mp with smaller aperture and no optical image stabilization is better then either the galaxy 3 or the Nokia 1020, I'd be shocked. As to NFC, you'd be surprised the ability to instantly send mp3s, data, contacts, photos wirelessly is nice. And being able to charge a phone wirelessly frees me from worrying about a cable.

It's not just megapixels, its a camera with fewer features that do matter. Who cares about ten bet shots when you have no optical stabilization and an inferior lens to your competition?

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#33 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:26 AM

As to NFC, you'd be surprised the ability to instantly send mp3s, data, contacts, photos wirelessly is nice. And being able to charge a phone wirelessly frees me from worrying about a cable.

It's not just megapixels, its a camera with fewer features that do matter. Who cares about ten bet shots when you have no optical stabilization and an inferior lens to your competition?

 

Two words:  Air Drop.  No bumping needed.

 

I understand you can get wireless charging adaptors for iPhone with the new jeep I am looking into, I really don't see that as a huge advantage for Android overall  tho.

 

We'll see how the cameras shake out, but tech heads made the same claims about inferiority when the iPhone 5 was announced and they have been eating crow ever since.  I wouldn't bet against that happening again.

 

People genuinely love the iPhone 5 camera and the software that supports it (minus iCloud stream which I agree needs work, we will see what happens and the next iCloud keynote!)  There is no need for a regular person to have a 30-40 megapixel camera unless they are going to crop 100% of their pictures.  If that's a real use case, go for it.  I don't see it tho.


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#34 of 124 Sam Posten

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:32 AM

Also, can Apple PLEASE bring parity to the iPad and iPhone camera systems?


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#35 of 124 Nelson Au

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:37 AM

I've never considered this before. But I'm kinda interested in upgrading from my iPhone 5 to the 5s. I had the iPhone 4 for the full 2 years and waited for the iPhone 5. I was going to wait for the iPhone 6. But this 5s is tempting.

I'll have to read up what penalties are there to upgrade before the contract is over. But with so many ads out for allowing upgrades yearly, I have to see what AT&T is up to.

#36 of 124 Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:41 AM

Nelson,

 

I am trading up on a Galaxy Note II to Note III out of contract.

 

I know iPhone has a trade-in program but it may only be for new reduced contract prices.

 

The point I am trying to make is that if you are not eligible for the trade-in program, 

try selling your iPhone 5 on Gazelle.com.  I was quoted $360* for an iPhone 5 a few days

ago.  Not sure if it just went down today (it might have)

 

Though upgrading to the new iPhone will cost you about twice the price, at least you have

a $360* credit to use.

 

* Based on a 64 GB model


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#37 of 124 mattCR

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:45 AM

Two words:  Air Drop.  No bumping needed.

 

I understand you can get wireless charging adaptors for iPhone with the new jeep I am looking into, I really don't see that as a huge advantage for Android overall  tho.

 

We'll see how the cameras shake out, but tech heads made the same claims about inferiority when the iPhone 5 was announced and they have been eating crow ever since.  I wouldn't bet against that happening again.

 

People genuinely love the iPhone 5 camera and the software that supports it (minus iCloud stream which I agree needs work, we will see what happens and the next iCloud keynote!)  There is no need for a regular person to have a 30-40 megapixel camera unless they are going to crop 100% of their pictures.  If that's a real use case, go for it.  I don't see it tho.

 

People love it because they don't compare it, Sam.. they will always like what they own ;)   But the iPhone5 camera in comparison to the Galaxy 3 or the Nokia 1020 is just short of junk.   I mean, look at almost any image shootout/comparison.  And video and picture capture without optical stabilization is terrible... I haven't seen a (real world) test run by anyone reasonable that doesn't conclude this.

 

 

People genuinely love the iPhone 5 camera and the software that supports it (minus iCloud stream which I agree needs work, we will see what happens and the next iCloud keynote!)  There is no need for a regular person to have a 30-40 megapixel camera unless they are going to crop 100% of their pictures.  If that's a real use case, go for it.  I don't see it tho.

 

Yeah, no.  This is not the purpose of a high MP at all.  You don't get 41MP and just have a flat 41MP.  Most 24 and 41MP save already as a 10/12MP rate, they use pixel oversampling to verify color and avoid rainbow, as well as to increase light sensitivity.   Unlike just boosting MP by just boosting MP, they capture the native output of an optical lens rate in order to get a higher quality source to sample.. FYI, this is the same method that RED and others use in their 4K camera stream systems.

 

But now we're off base.   We'll see how the audience adopts it.  I'm sure Apple fans will go crazy.  All I know is this:  last year, I was ordered to camp out to make sure all senior staff within the enterprise recieved an Iphone5 on launch date.. it's almost 3PM.. and no one has even suggested an upgrade.  Not one.

 

We can debate this back and forth, but here's how it looks to me:

 

Samsung's next will feature Wireless AC.. and Apple is still Nx1.

You can debate MP, but end users do see the #, and think about it, so explaining it away won't be as easy, especially if online shootouts don't show what you think it will.

Wireless charging and NFC are cool features which do attract people who use them.. and Air Drop, frankly, sucks.  I mean, come on.. most people end up using DropBox with a connector VS airdrop.  I mean, if you want to bag how many people use which, I'd argue the # of people who use some form of NFC is -way- higher then the # of people.. who use Airdrop.

Apple hasn't provided a larger size screen, so it's still the same long body as the 5, which is a kind of neither fish nor foul compared to it's competitors.

 

Lots of Apple fans will quickly grab.  Huge success for them.   We'll see how the reviews come in from non-Apple fanboy sites :) 


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#38 of 124 Nelson Au

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Posted September 10 2013 - 11:46 AM

Thanks Ron, more to think about. Unfortunately, I'm one who likes to keep the phone and use it as an iPod. But this is good to know. One can upgrade, it just gets costly!

#39 of 124 Ronald Epstein

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Posted September 10 2013 - 12:00 PM

Keynote Event Now Available to View in its Entirety


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#40 of 124 Carlo Medina

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Posted September 10 2013 - 12:03 PM

I'm with the bigger pixels is better than more pixels crowd. I shoot with a Canon 7D 18MP and the files are huge, especially RAW but even with JPG at high quality. For a phone I'm okay with anywhere between 8-10MP. Bigger pixels [and the accompanying larger sensor] in general terms means better low light results. Combine it with a wider aperture lens and you have a recipe for success. And I don't know about the rest of you but a significant amount of my iPhone shots are at restaurants or outings where the lighting is low and you don't want to blind people with your flash, so anything that yields better low light results will be 100X more valuable to me than a megapixel count. YMMV.


Edited by Carlo Medina, September 10 2013 - 12:04 PM.

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