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would this be a good sub..


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#21 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 09 2013 - 05:04 PM

The power is only 5% of the story. The pathetic 35hz yours attains is 90% of the issue.



#22 of 36 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted September 09 2013 - 06:21 PM

Remember that a good sub is for life. Regardless of what speakers you may go with, now or in the future, your sub will be there to provide the frequencies that your speakers won't efficiently produce with the same SPL. A larger amp, like in the Outlaw, will give greater headroom and serve larger rooms but thats about it. So Sam's post above nailed it. A sub that has good output below 20 Hz should be your goal but beyond that only a huge room would demand greater power than the Hsu or Outlaw models youre considering will provide.
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#23 of 36 OFFLINE   Raptor382

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Posted September 09 2013 - 07:12 PM

thanks guys.  so it sounds like one of the 3 subs ive listed will do the job nicely, all 3 have enough power, all 3 are under 20Hz capable, and all 3 are similarly priced....i just need to figure out which one is going to be the better buy.

 

Looking at them, however, i do have another question.  They rate their subs at xHz if you plug a port, or not plug a port.  seems like with both ports open, you get the lowest frequency, and that plugging one or both ports will result in a slightly higher low frequency range.  my question is, why would you need to plug a port?  if you get the lowest frequencies with open ports, wouldnt that be ideal?  does it have to do with making the bass more "punchy"?

 

is it a case of, if you are listening to music, put the port plugs in, but when watching movies, take them out?

 

thanks...and...again, for the above reasons mentioned..(price, specs etc), between those 3 subs (or another similarly priced sub that i havent mentioned), would you rate one over the other?  or would they all be pretty much the same? 

 

thanks again...i know..too many questions...i just want to make sure :)



#24 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 09 2013 - 07:28 PM

I think you are reading what plugging the port(s) does wrong.

Sealed subs play lower, ported play louder to the "port tune" then are dead under the ported tune.

In other words, say a sub has a 28hz port.

If you plug it, it plays down to 22hz at 105db.

If you unplug the port it will play to 108db to 28. Everything under 28 will disappear.

Which one do you want?

#25 of 36 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted September 10 2013 - 05:26 AM

Yep you got the plug effects backwards.  Both ports open will give you a stronger SPL but the sub wont go as low.  Ive always ran my pair with the plug in one port on both subs as obviously a pair of VTF2 MK3 is plenty of SPL for my 17x20 room.  Unless I was dropping this sub in a large room, where it was barely going to be enough to pressurize the room,  I would always run it in the one-port-open mode.  But the nice thing about this design is you can experiment and see what you like more.  A lot will depend on your install location and specific room as to whether youre getting the SPL you want from a single port open.  IF youre not you can always get another sub or experiment with opening both ports.


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#26 of 36 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted September 10 2013 - 06:42 AM

I have two of the three ports plugged in mine and it's set to 16hz.


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#27 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 10 2013 - 06:45 AM

I have two of the three ports plugged in mine and it's set to 16hz.

 

Yeah, he's not getting a 16hz port at $600. Twice that, sure. Or he could build one...



#28 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted September 10 2013 - 05:42 PM

As they explained, you have the port plugging backwards.  The port/enclosure combination is just a Hemholtz Radiator.  Pick up a Coke bottle and blow across the top.  Whatever frequency you hear is the bottles Fb (tuning frequency of the box).  Playing a tone at Fb, the driver moves very little because the impedance is extremely high and most of the sound comes from the port.  If you play higher, more sound comes from the driver and less from the port.  Below tuning frequency, the driver acts more like it is in free-air.  No air behind it as a spring.  The reason why all ported subs have an electronic filter usually set right below the tuning frequency.

 

Also, as Sam explained, power is almost a meaningless number.  You have to know much more about the designs to make a proper determination on which one is "best".  Sort of like comparing two vehicles.  One has 200 horsepower and one has 500 horsepower.  Which one will win a drag race?  What if the 500 hp vehicle was a dump truck? 

 

Since DIY was mentioned, it's not for everyone.  If you have to go out and buy $500 worth of tools, then you are behind the curve on building.  Like Sam, I use my tools for a little bit of everything.  My wife couldn't find 7 foot curtain rods.  A hack saw, spray paint and electrical conduit and she was as happy as could be.  If you are handy but this is the only time you will do something of this magnitude, then a flat pack enclosure may be your best choice.  For the same price as the most expensive sub on your list, you could get an enclosure for an 18, a good 18 and a very good amp.  It would blow away anything on that list.  In fact, if you bought all 3 subs on your list, they would have a difficult time on both SPL and extension.  All you need is a screw driver and glue.



#29 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 10 2013 - 06:19 PM

Heck, there is this as well...

 

http://www.amazon.co...oofer enclosure

http://www.amazon.co...ords=15" driver

http://www.amazon.co...inger amplifier

 

I'm sure Robert could chime in on a "better choice" than that driver, but at PartsExpress, every 15" driver says 35hz at the low end. But I'm not a subwoofer genius. I would gather though that those three things bought would still outperform your three choices.



#30 of 36 OFFLINE   Raptor382

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Posted September 10 2013 - 07:32 PM

Yeah, he's not getting a 16hz port at $600. Twice that, sure

Im confused at this statement.  Is this to mean that the 16Hz advertised on http://www.outlawaud...ucts/lfmEX.html , a $649 subwoofer, would never actually be achieved?

 

 Sort of like comparing two vehicles. One has 200 horsepower and one has 500 horsepower. Which one will win a drag race? What if the 500 hp vehicle was a dump truck?

So, which of the subs ive listed would be considered the dump truck? :D

 

A DIY sub might be something i would look forward to down the road, there are too many variables i'd have to learn.  Such as, even if I got the enclosure, the amp, and the woofer, what about things like phase control, the crossover, on/off/auto switch, and LFE connectors.  Are they all built into the amp?  Do I line the box with some sort of material or just leave it bare wood. 

 

I'd want to have a sub that looked good.  Perferably a wood vinyl finish, or wood.  I wouldnt want a sub that was a car box enclosure covered in fabric.

 

I don't have any tools and dont have a workshop.  I live in an apartment so it makes building anything a tad more difficult.  I know that may be an excuse, but for now, I think i'd rather just get a sub that is already made.

 

I was just wanting to see, of the 3 that I listed, since they are in my price range, which is generally the better sub?  I can't listen to any of them, so I will rely on those of you who may have listened to them, or have more in depth knowlege of them to help me.

 

I believe I read somewhere that the port of the HSU subs is longer than the outlaw subs, thus giving it a bit more oomph. 



#31 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 10 2013 - 07:40 PM

I'd like to know how Outlaw configured a 12" subwoofer, that size, with a 16hz(or is it EQ'd?) extension with a port. Sealed completely I could believe it.

 

But again, I'm not the subwoofer genius.

 

That stuff I linked, you could build in your living room in 25 minutes, Don't like the carpet? Remove it(or better yet, as them to send one w/o the carpet). Cover in whatever you want.

 

And a "car box with a woofer" couldn't give a crap less if it was in a trunk or your living room. Bass is bass.



#32 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 10 2013 - 07:53 PM

By the way, AudioHolics like the Outlaw EX.



#33 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_J

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Posted September 11 2013 - 03:20 AM

From the 3, I'd go with either Outlaw model.

 

For Sam's design, I'd use the Stereo Integrity 15" http://stereointegri...index.php?id=60 It's about 1/2 the price of the driver he picked and has better low end performance.  The box is a little small but with 3 cheap pillows from Wal-Mart, it will work.



#34 of 36 OFFLINE   Tom Vodhanel

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Posted September 11 2013 - 05:25 AM

I'd like to know how Outlaw configured a 12" subwoofer, that size, with a 16hz(or is it EQ'd?) extension with a port. Sealed completely I could believe it.

 

But again, I'm not the subwoofer genius.

 

That stuff I linked, you could build in your living room in 25 minutes, Don't like the carpet? Remove it(or better yet, as them to send one w/o the carpet). Cover in whatever you want.

 

And a "car box with a woofer" couldn't give a crap less if it was in a trunk or your living room. Bass is bass.

 

 

  Goto basic response chart here http://www.data-bass...m&id=58&mset=58  Pretty solid extension down to 16-17hz and this is measured outside at 2m. I'm sure there's some EQ involved, you can see it starting around 35hz. Not a big deal of course as just about every subwoofer available includes some sort of response shaping. 

 

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#35 of 36 OFFLINE   Raptor382

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Posted September 11 2013 - 07:46 PM

went ahead and ordered the LFM-1+, hoping it will be here sometime in the next 2 weeks (outlaw audio says orders will be shipped withing 5 working days of the order placement, so I assume that 5 days + another 4 or 5 days ground shipping means i should see it in roughly 2 weeks).

 

anyway, I need to now offset some of the cost of this.  So, I am going to sell all my old gear, I just dont know how to price it and never really worked with selling things online much, and not really familiar with pay pal.

 

this is what im thinking: (all items are in good working order)

 

Sony STR-DG820 100w/ch 7.1 AVR - $100 (have remote and manuals, but do not have the optimizer mic)

Klipsch Quintet 5 channel speakers $100

Klipsch RPW10 10" subwoofer $150

 

so, basically, $350 for a full working 5.1 surround system, no blemishes on any of the items that I can see, there might be a scratch or two on the AVR, but i'll have to check again.

 

im just wondering if that is too much to ask for this older equipment?  also, do I pay for shipping or have the buyer pay?  reason i ask is because, if I sell this for $350 but have to pay $150 to ship it all, im really not gaining much.

 

I had hoped that all of this is priced for a quick sale, in order to get rid of it fairly quickly, to offset the cost of the equipment i just bought a little.

 

let me know if this looks like a good deal or a bad deal, and I will then put it over in the exchange forum (unless someone here has an eye for it :)



#36 of 36 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted September 11 2013 - 09:41 PM

Best bet is Craigslist. 

 

Not sure why you think that Sony is "old". It is still HDMI 1.3. There are three on Amazon for $140, so you are gifting it at $100...if you can sell it local.

 

Anyway your pricing is almost too low. If you price too low,. people will think something is wrong with it.






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