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Conversations with Twilight Time's Nick Redman (UPDATED New Interview 9/8/13)

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#181 of 196 OFFLINE   Persianimmortal

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Posted October 23 2013 - 03:53 AM

Pathological behavior is defined as compulsive and obsessive. To me, the behavior of people decrying the lack of extras, and the constant, almost insatiable demand for the extras, seems to very easily fall into that category of behavior. You can enjoy extras, that's your personal choice. But my question still stands: why do people feel the need to shatter the illusion of movies by needing to know every tiny, nitpicky detail about how a film was made. Moviemakers and people in the business, yes I can understand their need to know. But how about the average fan? Why do people find it hard just to enjoy a good quality presentation of a movie without constantly asking for "extras"?



#182 of 196 OFFLINE   Yami

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Posted October 23 2013 - 04:04 AM

Pathological behavior is defined as compulsive and obsessive. To me, the behavior of people decrying the lack of extras, and the constant, almost insatiable demand for the extras, seems to very easily fall into that category of behavior. You can enjoy extras, that's your personal choice. But my question still stands: why do people feel the need to shatter the illusion of movies by needing to know every tiny, nitpicky detail about how a film was made. Moviemakers and people in the business, yes I can understand their need to know. But how about the average fan? Why do people find it hard just to enjoy a good quality presentation of a movie without constantly asking for "extras"?

 

'Extras' is a very non-specific term. Not all extras explain the nuances of production - they can be short films by the same director, interviews with people that the film has influenced, biographical documentaries etc. However, even those that do fall into the category that you describe do not necessarily "shatter the illusion". That may be the effect they have on you but, to me, they enhance the experience and allow me to appreciate the work in new ways. 



#183 of 196 OFFLINE   Persianimmortal

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Posted October 23 2013 - 04:53 AM

I explained in my first post on this topic that I completely understand that some extras can enhance the presentation. No problems there. For example, TT provides an isolated score on their discs, and that certainly is an enhancement that does nothing to ruin the illusion of a movie. But most of the extras I see included on discs (judging by their title at least), and often eagerly asked for by fans, seem to fall into the other category.



#184 of 196 OFFLINE   Jari K

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Posted October 23 2013 - 05:21 AM

No problems there.

 

But you have a "problem" somewhere? And if so, are you sure it isn't you own problem?

 

I mean does it actually hurt that DVDs and Blu-rays have these extras and that many people enjoy them? And I'm willing to bet that most people also enjoy them without any pathological behavior. It should be obvious that it's the consumer that's making the final decision: If you want extras and some release doesn't have them, you don't buy that particular release. If you don't care about the extras, then you just watch the film and move on. Simple, no?

 

The truth is that having some extra features on a disc is actually a long tradition. FIrst audio commentary (King Kong from Criterion) was released in 1984 on a laserdisc and I'm sure it didn't take long that also DVDs included extras (not sure about the "first wave", though). Yes, we consumers have used to them, filmmakers/actors have used to providing them and studios/labels have the budgets to produce them (with today's technology, they don't even cost that much). Extras are a "problem"? It seems that the filmmakers and studios missed that memo.

 

But who knows, perhaps the business model from TT is the way of the future. 30 bucks, no real extras (some releases) and limited to 3 000 copies. Perhaps the next stage is that we don't have those damn psychical discs anymore and we can also forget about the extras. But in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy movies AND extras. Both are essential for me.


Edited by Jari K, October 23 2013 - 05:23 AM.


#185 of 196 OFFLINE   Persianimmortal

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Posted October 23 2013 - 05:26 AM

My problem is in understanding why people seem to place more value on "extras", packaging and price than on quality movies.


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#186 of 196 OFFLINE   Douglas R

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Posted October 23 2013 - 05:31 AM

Pathological behavior is defined as compulsive and obsessive. To me, the behavior of people decrying the lack of extras, and the constant, almost insatiable demand for the extras, seems to very easily fall into that category of behavior. You can enjoy extras, that's your personal choice. But my question still stands: why do people feel the need to shatter the illusion of movies by needing to know every tiny, nitpicky detail about how a film was made. Moviemakers and people in the business, yes I can understand their need to know. But how about the average fan? Why do people find it hard just to enjoy a good quality presentation of a movie without constantly asking for "extras"?

 

My take on this is exactly the opposite. If one takes a serious interest in films then why not want to learn everything about the subject? Just as with any other hobby, knowledge aids to a better and wider appreciation of the subject. Maybe some of us have more of a natural curiosity than others but from childhood I not only enjoyed seeing films, I strove to find out how they were made - especially when it came to working out how special effects were achieved. I have read coulntless books about filmmaking over the years, lapped up magazines like "Cinefantastique" and "Cinefex" and never ever has any of this knowledge of the "nitpicky detail" detracted from my enjoyment of a film. I can quite easily compartmentalise my viewing of a film without having to draw on knowledge of how it was made. At the age of 12 I was fascinated as to how the effects in THE 7TH VOYAGE OF SINBAD were created. Nowadays almost everybody knows how those effects were achieved. Does that spoil their enjoyment of the film? Of course not.


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#187 of 196 OFFLINE   Mark Collins

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Posted October 23 2013 - 06:04 AM

Keith sorry I was not clear in my post which IS a bad habit of mine LOL  I like extras but I am on the side of getting the movie.  Nick explains about the extras as we all have heard in the interview.

 

Well folks another time to pre order is today!  I will be there for sure! 



#188 of 196 OFFLINE   rich_d

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Posted October 23 2013 - 06:21 AM

My problem is in understanding why people seem to place more value on "extras", packaging and price than on quality movies.

 

That's a bit much, but there really should be no denying that many so-called movie fans spend far more time discussing some aspect of the video over the movie itself.  That's quite laughable if it weren't so sad. 


Edited by rich_d, October 23 2013 - 06:22 AM.


#189 of 196 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted October 23 2013 - 09:46 AM

My problem is in understanding why people seem to place more value on "extras", packaging and price than on quality movies.


Because I can watch a quality film without buying it. Netflix streaming gets better and better all the time.

I can't get extras without buying the disc in most cases. That's the benefit of ownership. And as I said before in some cases the extras are more interesting than the main film...
Yes, these strange things happen all the time - PT Anderson, Magnolia

#190 of 196 OFFLINE   JoHud

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Posted October 23 2013 - 10:23 AM

Extras are almost never a deal-breaker for me.  The only time an extra feature is would be in the case of two separate editions using identical transfers that only differ in their extra feature content.  A pretty rare scenario.  The movie is always the main course.

 

My take on this is exactly the opposite. If one takes a serious interest in films then why not want to learn everything about the subject? Just as with any other hobby, knowledge aids to a better and wider appreciation of the subject. Maybe some of us have more of a natural curiosity than others but from childhood I not only enjoyed seeing films, I strove to find out how they were made - especially when it came to working out how special effects were achieved. I have read coulntless books about filmmaking over the years, lapped up magazines like "Cinefantastique" and "Cinefex" and never ever has any of this knowledge of the "nitpicky detail" detracted from my enjoyment of a film. I can quite easily compartmentalise my viewing of a film without having to draw on knowledge of how it was made. At the age of 12 I was fascinated as to how the effects in THE 7TH VOYAGE OF SINBAD were created. Nowadays almost everybody knows how those effects were achieved. Does that spoil their enjoyment of the film? Of course not.

 

Exactly my take.  I am just as much interested as how a movie was made as enjoying the movie itself.  Most of the time I'm conscious of who the actors are and compare performances as I'm enjoying the movie.  I'm always interested in how the film was made and when I do, more often than not, it enriched the experience.  If I ever see a very tricky shot or a very cool effect or stunt, I think "How did they do that?" and come up with my own theories.  Granted I don't actively seek those answers on every movie I see, far from it, but learning how it was done can be pretty enlightening.

 

That's not to say I only enjoy movies that are of the highest technical quality.  The special effects of Godzilla are patently obvious most of the time but I still love the movie and get drawn in every time I see it.  I'm personally more interested in being engaged in the story or mood of a movie, but I can't deny how cool it is to see those extra immersive technical touches.  Extra features can also shed light on the creative process of how the script was written, photographed, and acted at that particular time.  Sure sometimes it can be business as usual, but it can also be an interesting real-life story in its own right.



#191 of 196 OFFLINE   Persianimmortal

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Posted October 23 2013 - 02:52 PM

I suppose the best analogy I can come up with is that when we enjoy a good meal at a restaurant, most of us don't automatically want to know exactly how it was made, or every ingredient that was in it. Amateur or professional chefs, sure. But the average restaurant-goer, although perhaps having some natural curiosity, is generally happy enough just to enjoy the meal and walk away satisfied. I don't see people demanding that restaurants include a "making of" brochure with every meal. But with movies, there appears to be a real movement towards deconstructionism. In many cases, as I say, it appears to be almost compulsive: there will be a strong backlash from the average fan if a disc isn't loaded up with these sort of extras. It's gone from being a "nice to have" to being a "must include".

 

As to whether it spoils the movie, well I'm going to have to continue to disagree with others that in my case, it certainly does. Once I see the behind-the-scenes making of a particular film, it becomes much harder for me to then view that film with any sort of immersion. It seems curious that a filmmaker goes to all that trouble to craft a particular illusion, and then the audience goes to great lengths to break it down again and "see the wires" so to speak.

 

Anyway I think I've labored this point long enough. It's obviously a touchy subject for some, so I'll just accept that extras are important for many of you.



#192 of 196 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted October 23 2013 - 02:59 PM

I don't think many casual viewers care one whit about extras.  Most people not only don't obsess over them, but don't have much patience for them.  Of course, that's not true for the folks here, but we're not casual viewers.  We're those amateur or, in many cases, professional chefs you mention.

 

If it's a movie that's a true favorite of mine, i *do* obsess a bit, and want to learn as much as I can about what went into the making of it.  And not necessarily just from a technical standpoint, as the films I love tend to not involve a lot of overly-technical wizardry.  To further your culinary analogy, it would be like saying "That was delicious?   Can I have the recipe?"  or "How did you make that?"



#193 of 196 OFFLINE   haineshisway

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Posted October 23 2013 - 03:07 PM

I occasionally watch an extra and most likely end up wishing I hadn't, either because they're poorly put together by people who suddenly fancy themselves filmmakers (produced, written and directed by - really?), or, more importantly, because they sometimes make me end up not ever wanting to watch a film I once liked again because the filmmakers are so irritating or insane in their work methods that it simply ruins the film for me - case in point, The Social Network, a film I quite liked until I saw the behind the scenes with David Fincher behaving like a talentless jerk, actors yakking on and on about doing 100 takes of some nonsensically easy scene - it just nauseated me on every level.  So, I actually prefer no extras - just the film, which is why I'm purchasing the disc in the first place.  I have seen a few things that were interesting, and I will watch if it's an older film with some of the participants still living, but NOT if it's telling me how the magic was achieved - I have no interest in watching that stuff, ever.


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#194 of 196 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted October 23 2013 - 03:36 PM

I'm not really an extra guy unless the extras were produced at the time of the release to promote the film. The Newsreels and shorts such THE MOVIEMAKERS that were produced as fillers for CBS during the day of Movie Nights are always interesting and fun. You can add trailers and TV spots to the group and I'm happy. I also enjoy stars getting together and reminiscing the shoot.

I am not a huge fan of this is how it was done and how we fooled you.




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#195 of 196 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted October 23 2013 - 04:28 PM

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For the most part, I can't stand to watch extras for current films, ones that were produced in conjunction with the film itself.  It's nauseating to hear everyone going on and on and on about how brilliant their coworkers are and what a thrill it is to work with them.   I'd rather watch paint dry.   I'm more interested in extras devoted to films of the classic studio era.  Cleopatra's making-of documentary is far more compelling than the film itself!


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#196 of 196 OFFLINE   Jari K

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Posted October 23 2013 - 10:40 PM

My problem is in understanding why people seem to place more value on "extras", packaging and price than on quality movies.

 

How do you know this? I mean seriously? What you do is you assume that a comment like "Oh great, it has tons of extras!" actually means: "Great! I love extras more than the film/transfer itself!". I know that this is a internet forum so people assume, they read "between the lines", twist the words, etc, but sometimes what people write is what they mean and there are no hidden agendas or messages. Often people are just excited and it shows.

 

I mean you probably blatantly assume that e.g. I care "more" about the extras than the film itself because I dared to criticize the business model of TT. That's how it works on the internet, "I accept that".

 

The magic word is the "package". When I buy some film on Blu-ray (perhaps even in DVD) I actually get a package of nice things: Film/transfer, audio options and probably some extras. There are people who also enjoy the actual packaging/art work, subtitles, booklet, collectibles, 3D, etc.

 

Now the price. During the "golden days of DVD", we often got a very nice "package" with 30 bucks. Multiple discs (of course partly due the disc space limitations), different versions/audio options, loads of extras, special packaging etc. I guess the question is (or at least will be in the future) that what we get with 30 bucks now? Criterion-ish special edition with bells and whistles? Or "a quality movie and a decent/great transfer" like TT is putting out? Let's face it: E.g. Criterion and TT are roughly in the same price range.

 

Bottom line: Market has changed from the "golden days of DVD" era. Digital distribution (in a various forms) has arrived etc. What do WE (movies fans, collectors, A/V enthusiasts) want from the market?

 

That's a bit much, but there really should be no denying that many so-called movie fans spend far more time discussing some aspect of the video over the movie itself.  That's quite laughable if it weren't so sad. 

 

You've a point there, of course.


Edited by Jari K, October 24 2013 - 12:07 AM.






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