Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests to win things like this Logitech Harmony Ultimate Remote and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

speakers, BIC America?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#1 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 20 2013 - 10:52 PM

hello, just ordered a Yamaha RX-V871 AV receiver and will be in the market to start building a speaker system to go with it.

 

the speaker brands i generally know of, paradigm, klipsch, and one that ive heard of but never used, Axiom.  But after doing some looking around on the net today, i came across the BIC America line, and for the price, it appears they have some amazing speakers.  I'm just wondering if it's too good to be true.  Looking for anyone who has ever heard the bic speakers.  I would probably be looking at the BiC America brand and not the Acoustech, because im not sure how I would like the horn tweeter, and would probably defer to the dome tweeter.

 

anyway, the lineup im looking at would be from:

 

Axiom

Paradigm

Klipsch

BiC

 

feel free to throw in some other decent ones if you like...ill be looking and try to read up on them to see where I should go with this.

 

also, in the SW department, aside from the BiC subs, which seems fairly good, i was looking at SVS, but their prices are a bit high. other options would be outlaw audio, axiom, lava subs. 

 

also, how do you know when you need a ported sub, or a sealed sub? what is the difference? 

 

when choosing surrounds, how do you know when you need normal speakers, dipole, bipole etc.  also, somethign ive wondered about, why do they use full floor standing speakers for the fronts and the small bookshelf speakers as surrounds.  Would it be possible, and even better to use full floor standing speakers for your mains AND surrounds?  just curious on that one :)

 

thanks.

 

ill try to make a diagram of my living area and post it so you get a better idea of what im dealing with.


Edited by Raptor382, August 20 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#2 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 05:30 AM

Don't want Accoustech because of the horn, but you are considering Klipsch... :huh:

 

BIC(British Industries Corporation) has been around eons. They were the original importers of Dual turntables and Wharfedale(there was a time BIC "sorta owned" Wharfedale), amongst other stuff.

 

Time has passed, BIC was one of the first speaker brands to retreat 30 yards, punt and kick into the "internet sales zone"(in other words...vanished from B&M with American made speakers, only to resurface months later with Chinese speakers that "looked" exactly like the American made ones in stores. This was 1995-ish, around the same time Amazon was a fledgling).

 

BIC's success eventually led to "every other" Internet Direct speaker company out there(BIC used to sell from their website and on Amazon, till Amazon was going to drop them for "being cut out").

 

Anyway, because of the BIC/Amazon relationship...that is why trying to buy <$1500 home theater speaker set is something you can't do in person anymore(not like you could prior to 2000).

 

Di/Bi-pole is exactly what it looks like. A speaker meant to be diffuse. They only work if you have the exact placement for them. Equally, directly, exactly to the side of your seating, and equally, directly, exactly to the rear from the edges of your seating(for 7.1). If you can't put them there, don't buy them.

 

Back to Klipsch(still confused), if you are looking at Synergy, most people consider the Accoustech to be the better choice.



#3 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 05:40 AM

Ported vs sealed(makes zero difference in the meaning if a fullrange speaker or a subwoofer)

 

Sealed (also called Acoustic Suspension) means the speaker is sealed. No port.

 

Ported means it isn't sealed cause it has a port. (side version of ported is "acoustic radiator". You'll see that with Def Tech speakers and ssubwoofers)

 

Sealed is usually more accurate(in subwoofers it means a flatter deeper response)

Ported is more efficient with a "bass peak" because of the port(in subwoofers where ever the "port is tuned" that is as low as it plays)



#4 of 48 Type A

Type A

    Supporting Actor

  • 794 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 07 2007
  • Real Name:Ty
  • LocationPortland Oregon

Posted August 21 2013 - 06:31 AM

I did a lot of research on Bic when shopping for speakers.  For some reason Bic is just too good for pro reviews, pretty crappy policy for an ID company regardless of their return policy.  Frankly, I dont trust my own ears any more than I trust the thousands of gushing user reviews for the Bic speaker line.  Just as a simple example a quick search of Infinity Primus (a direct competitor to Bic in price) reveals pro evaluations in great enough numbers to form a consensus of the line, mostly older reviews but they do exist.  That right there made it very easy to check Bic off my list regardless of their following or their company past.  I want measurements and evaluations by persons with far more experience than myself and that wont be possible with a company with a great following and arrogant company policy like Bic.  Bic kinda reminds me of Bose in that way, and thats not a good thing.  Seems to me the other lines that you are considering are all well reviewed but I encourage you to listen to the horn-loaded Klipsch before purchasing, horned-loaded are a unique beast that isnt for everyone.

 

Seems youve got a good handle on sub manufactures.  Outlaw (and Bic IIRC) is designed by Hsu so dont leave Hsu off your list.  Look for the highest amp power and lowest frequency response possible within your budget.  Generally speaking ported usually go louder but sealed usually go lower and tighter, many manufactures these days use a combination of the design to obtain the best of both worlds. I wouldnt concern myself with that aspect of the design as long as the amp and freq response (and reviews) are what they should be.

 

As for the placement restrictions of the bipole/dipole design I am in complete disagreement with Sam. In my opinion this design is actually more flexible in placement (as surrounds or rears) than direct firing (monopole) designs.  The primary job of surround channels is ambience and bipole/dipole designs provide a reflected and more diffused sound than a monopole design, which is exactly what you want from your surround or rear channels.   Like all speakers they do have an ideal install location however they can be installed either above or at ear level and either to the side or behind the seating and even within 6' of a listener.  To the side and slightly above the seating is preferred but because they are diffused they are more forgiving than a direct firing speaker.   A direct firing speaker radiates direct sound, its placement it more critical and should be a distance of at least 6' from the nearest seated position to prevent the 'speaker-in-the-ear' effect. I personally have always found that I do not have the room width or depth for traditional monopole designs and Ive been much happier with my dipole designed surrounds.  However your front stage channels (LCR) should be direct radiating speakers as these channels are highly directional by nature and image with the display. Ironically enough you do not want reflected/difused sound with your front stage speakers, this is why bi/di designs are never recommended for a front stage in a home theater application.   


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#5 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 07:08 AM

First, it is BIC, not Bic. Same nitpic when I see Kef.

Second, you got it backwards. Sealed plays lower and ported plays louder(what I already said above).

Third, the BIC DV62 is the "same" speaker as the BIC V62. They've used the same tweeter and woofer since 1979. Want a review, find one on the V62.

#6 of 48 Type A

Type A

    Supporting Actor

  • 794 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 07 2007
  • Real Name:Ty
  • LocationPortland Oregon

Posted August 21 2013 - 07:52 AM

Yeah I caught that and corrected already, thanks.  I knew what I meant lol


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#7 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 07:58 AM

I'll add this tidbit of the DV62.

Yes there are better speakers. For $135(last I checked) there isn't much else. Should they be compared to a KEF Q100? Heck no.

But, it is based on the LS5/3A(or is it LS3/5A ?? Salk has a killer version for $1000)

#8 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 21 2013 - 08:00 AM

ok schan, you caught me on the horn tweeter/klipsch thing :)  I currently have the quintet speakers, which are a horn tweeter set.  they are small speakers so I dont think the horn tweeter really shows through much, compared to a how a larger speaker would.  In the past, ive been told that horn tweeters are bright and while i want good crisp highs, I wouldnt think I would like a shrill "tinny" sound.  Which is why I was going to look more toward the dome tweeter.

 

To be honest, likely I wouldnt look to much toward synergy speakers as they are just one step above the icon series, meaning they are one of the klipsch bottom line speakers.  While price is a concern, I have a feeling I could do better for a comparable price from another company.

 

The problem where I live is that it is a smaller town (about 63,000 people) and there are no home theater shops other than best buy, and the best buy here is a small one and doesnt have a good audition setup.  This would leave me with having to drive at least two hours (houston, austin, or san antonio) in order to audition speakers, and then I would have to find where the stores are, which brands they carry etc.  I know that is probably a smart thing to do, and I may have to break down and take a couple Saturdays and do it.

 

I am not opposed to full floor standing speakers, actually, i would prefer it, however, because I can get bookshelf speakers cheaper, and because I live in an apartment, it may be that bookshelf speakers are all that I need, I had originally wanted to go in that direction.

 

I am kind of looking at the Axiom bookshelf line as they are reasonably priced, but need to find someone with real world experience with them (not just reviews on a website), I would like to hear from someone who has actually owned them and can tell me how they perform (since there really isnt any way to listen to them in person, you pretty much have to buy sight unseen).

 

So, as far as BIC, from what I gather, they may not be a good choice because of the lack of reviews on them from pro audio websites?  That is a shame because, their specs are great, their prices are great, and their parts and labor warranty are pretty good.

 

I think you mentioned, or someone mentioned in my other thread, schan, that you owned the infinity primus?  can you give me some input on them?

 

as far as HSU goes, I tried looking them up and could not find a website for them.  Everytime I typed in "HSU speakers" in yahoo, it came back with a link for 'hsuresearch.com' and when I clicked on it, it brought me to a suddenlink page with other links on it.



#9 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 09:22 AM

One of my theatres has Infinity Crescendo.

HsuResearch isn't coming up?

#10 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 09:23 AM

hsuresearch worked for me

#11 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 21 2013 - 09:34 AM

i cannot get to the hsu research page.  every time i type the link into the browser, or search for it and click on the link provided by the search engine, i get brough to a page from suddenlink.  it basically says that the page is a partnership with suddenlink and yahoo, and that if you get page not found error, it takes you to this other page that has useful links on it instead.  i tried disabling it, but that didnt work.  ill just have to use google or bing or something instead.



#12 of 48 Type A

Type A

    Supporting Actor

  • 794 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 07 2007
  • Real Name:Ty
  • LocationPortland Oregon

Posted August 21 2013 - 11:17 AM

I owned the Infinity Primus;  362, 162 and PC350.  At one point 11 speakers in all.  Still own two pair of 162,  a pair in the guest bedroom and a pair in the master bedroom, light music duty only.  Theyre a nice detailed speaker and accurate, towers developed some serious SPL but in a home theater environment I found the highs just too fatiguing.  After one movie I was exhausted and ready to turn the system off.  You actually find reference to this fatigue in a review of the 160, that reviewer mentioned it but I figured it was just him and bought them anyway.  In the short time I owned the complete system I lined the insides of the cabinets with a sonic dampening layer, tightened the bass and made them an even better speaker.  Pics of this little project are in my photo journal, link can be found on the bottom line of my signature.  Theyre great speakers and have gotten great reviews but for me its just too hard to recommend them because the highs are so fatiguing. On a side note dont underestimate the bookshelf speakers in the Primus line, theyre big bookshelf speakers that develop serious bass, they love good power.  Dont let me scare you off to BIC, everything I have read says theyre a great speaker. I just so happen to insist on good pro reviews for anything I purchase.  Its a philosophy that has served me well, for the most part,  but I can be a little too anal about it at times as well.

 

Hsu site seems to be working fine for me.


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#13 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 21 2013 - 11:21 AM

ok, here is the layout of my apartment, keep in mind, the measurements are not "exact" there might be an inch or two here and there that i was off, but it's close

 

the apartment has faux hard wood floors an 9 foot ceilings.

 

if one of you engineer type people could look at this and kind of give me an idea of a good layout, and what kind of speakers you would recommend, for now, a 5.1 system, i'd appreciate it.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • layout.jpg


#14 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 11:31 AM

No you can't use di/bi-pole on the sides.

I wouldn't recommend them 6/7 either.

#15 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 21 2013 - 11:35 AM

thanks Ty, i finally got to the hsu website, another good option.  so many options and no way to preview them, i guess im just going to look at specs and basically just flip a coin and go with one.  BIC, HSU, Axiom, infinity,  i pretty much ruled out that paradigm and klipsch are going to be too expensive for me in the scheme of things, seems like i can get just as good with one of the afore mentioned brands, than i could with those two.



#16 of 48 anthony_b

anthony_b

    Screenwriter

  • 1,074 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 18 2000

Posted August 21 2013 - 11:38 AM

I've never owned BIC speakers, but if you're ordering from amazon , then go for it. You can always return them. They have pretty decent reviews for there price. I went ahead and blindly ordered a BIC F12 sub that's arriving tomorrow.
Think before you speak....Peace always

#17 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 12:01 PM

Don't forget HTD level 3. With the Kapton tweeter.

#18 of 48 Raptor382

Raptor382

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 71 posts
  • Join Date: May 23 2011

Posted August 21 2013 - 12:37 PM

i think you are just torturing me now schan :D by adding another brand into the mix..just kidding.  i appreciate the input and making me aware of other brands out there to look at.  Unfortunately for me, without ever having heard any of these, all I have to go on are the numbers, and reviews from people like you.

 

Like every other person, I am trying to get as good a sound as I can, for the cheapest price i can.  Sounds familiar right?  For me, what qualifies as a good speaker is the ability for a speaker to sound clean, crisp and clear.  I want my highs to "tinkle" and my lows to be smooth and accurate, not "boomy".  I like to have my bass articulated in such a way that you can differentiate between low tones, not just have them all rumble together.  I like the bass to be felt as well as heard, which im sure any subwoofer with a <30Hz capability and a decent amp will do.  But to have that bass be distinguishable is important.

 

I know im asking a TON for my budget, and i know im not going to get exactly what I want for the money i can spend, but, i think i can get close.  As an example, my current sub is a Klipsch RPW10.  It actually does a good job, and I like the way it sounds.  For the most part, it does have good bass, though, probably not the deepest bass as its frequency range is 35Hz to 120Hz.  But it does have a 400w peak 200w rms bash amplifier, which is fairly good.  While it does good for the moderate low tones, i think it drops out on the lower low tones, which is to be expected from a sub of this quality.  But, having said that, the lows that it does produce, for the most part, are good.

 

So, im certain that the new sub i get, with a 12"-15" woofer, something down into the 22-24Hz range, with at least a decent amplifier will likely suit my needs fine.

 

The mains and surrounds, however, will be harder to choose for me.  Again, I like a full bodied sound.  "Tinkling" highs, rich mid range.  I like to be able to hear all apsects of the music and movies im playing, but, again, i know that im not going to get that without spending a load of money.  So, hopefully, with you folks' help, I can get as close to that as possible without breaking the bank.

 

Also, keep in mind here, i'm going from a klipsch quintet speaker system, which I think actually sounds pretty good.  I'm sure that whatever speaker I choose is going to be miles ahead of what I currently have, so likely i'll be happy with most anything that I get.  I like good sound, but im sure im not the audiophile that most of you are.


Edited by Raptor382, August 21 2013 - 12:43 PM.


#19 of 48 schan1269

schan1269

    HTF Expert

  • 12,612 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 04 2012
  • Real Name:Sam
  • LocationChicago-ish/NW Indiana

Posted August 21 2013 - 01:27 PM

Well you could remove that amp and DIY your own 12".

#20 of 48 gene c

gene c

    Producer

  • 5,655 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 05 2003
  • Real Name:Gene
  • LocationBay area, Ca

Posted August 21 2013 - 02:34 PM

I'm currently using a set of Primus 160's which are temporarely replacing Infinity Beta 20's. Even though the Primus series uses a 3/4" tweeter vs a 1" in the Beta's I aggree that the Primus seems to be a bit hotter on the top end. It also doesn't put out quite the bass that the Beta 20 does which I feel comfortable using with two channel music without a sub. With the 160's I do feel like I'm missing a little on the bottom end but with a subwoofer it wouldn't matter. Frys often has the Primus 363 tower speakers on sale for $234 a pair. That's a great price if you have a Frys in the Metro Austin or San Antonio area's. They also have the 163's, 153's and 143's but no center channel speakers that I remember seeing.

 

If you do have a BestBuy near you then see if they have the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers. That 871 should be able to drive them  well enough. Probably a bit softer and warmer then the Klipsch speakers you've been using.

 

Don't forget the Polk Monitors from Newegg.com or Amazon.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users