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#41 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 09:25 AM

This is the same general public that has made Bose such a huge success. Onkyo is about lots of features at rock bottom prices and lots of features at rock bottom prices sells AVRs. However when you take the time to ask who does it best the answer probably wont be Onkyo.


That is the case 7 series and down. Not so once you get to 8 and up.

#42 of 60 Type A

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Posted August 20 2013 - 10:11 AM

In your opinion.  As long as we keep your tales of Onkyos flying off shelves in perspective those "naysayers" will be right there beside you sir ;)


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Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
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#43 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 20 2013 - 12:23 PM

well, i went with the 871.  sorry schan, no onkyo this time.  ive just had yamaha before and am familiar with it.  it is a good receiver and the price point (under $500) made it a good deal.

 

now i just need to start looking for some bookshelf speakers to go with it...any advice?  how are the KEF or boston acoustics, or yamaha speakers that they sell on A4L?  decent?



#44 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 12:56 PM

KEF(except the C series) is good to very good.

#45 of 60 gene c

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Posted August 20 2013 - 02:17 PM

Cograts on the 871. I think it was a nice choice. 

 

Recommending speakers is a whole 'nuther thing. You need to let your ears be the judge more than your computer screen. Right now I have Polk LSi's in my main room and see no reason to replace them anytime soon. I had Polk RTi's, Swan Diva's and Dynaudio Audiences before the LSi's. I'm still using the Infinty Beta's in my everyday room since I couldn'tpawn them off on Mike :) . Dont be afraid of used speakers. They're the safest used bet out there. I get most of mine off craigslist now. But I understand if you're not comfotable doing that just yet.

 

 I've had about +/- 20 receivers and pre-amp over the years (mostly out of curiosity) including 3-4 Onkyo's and a  couple of Integra's, and I've never had one fail either. The Integra 8.9 got so hot, even in Standby, that I had to unplug it when I wasn't using it. Never should have sold the Inegra 70.2. We all make mistakes I guess. But in all reality, they were all very good at what they did.  

 

Many times I thought about forking over the $600 for the Sherwood 772 just to see what all the fuss was about. Main reason I didn't is because of the huge amounts of money I'd probably lose when it came time to sell it, which I probably would.

 

The Sherbourn idea is another thing. I can't get myself to recommend it because I really don't know much about them. I have owned the Emotiva USP-1 stereo pre-amp which I thought was a real nice product. I also had the UMC-1 pre-amp which was probably just as good but I never really gave it a chance.

 

I now have a Marantz 7005, BDP 7006 and CC4003 combo and while it's very nice I'm not "wow'ed" like I'd like to be. Very easy to setup and operate off the main remote but I'm having trouble getting past the cyclops faceplate. I much prefer the looks 6005.

 

I hope Pioneer hangs in there. I'm a pretty big fan of their receivers. I'd love to have an SC-68 or 79 someday. Too many toys, not enough time.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#46 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 02:59 PM

That's sad...but par for the course...

I like the Cyclops look. What would be even cooler with it, if in (whatever Marantz calls it) Pure Audio mode...it turned into an old style-ish power meter.

#47 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 27 2013 - 03:36 AM

ok, so i have my rx-v871 set up, and I have the two P363 mains set up, the pc351 center channel is on its way.  For now, im still using the klipsch center, and surrounds.  Im finding that while it is better, it still seems like im having to turn the volume up too far to get any good sound.  It seems like im having to turn it up half way or more in order to be able to hear it clearly.  Again, this is really only for movies and such, not for music. 

 

Would the reason for this be that im still using the klipsch center?  I would think that using the two front mains would give plenty of volume but i could be wrong.  Im just afraid that by having to turn the volume up that far, im driving the amp too much and will cause it to run hot or damage it.

 

also, in the 871 amp configuration settings, there are 3 options, they are something like "basic", "7ch +1zone", and "5.1 bi-amp".  I left it on basic as im not using 7 speakers and im not bi-amping.  is this the correct setting?

 

ran the ypao and it set everything up, but, it says that my center and left surround are reversed (out of phase), even though the speakers are hooked up correctly.  also it set all the speakers to small and put the sub crossover at 120Hz.  I didnt change the speaker size, but I did change the sub crossover to 80Hz.  Im assuming that if i change the speaker size to large, it will be like it was on my sony AVR, that I will lose the ability to set the AVR's crossover.  should i leave this setting alone?

 

thanks



#48 of 60 FoxyMulder

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:04 AM

ok, so i have my rx-v871 set up, and I have the two P363 mains set up, the pc351 center channel is on its way.  For now, im still using the klipsch center, and surrounds.  Im finding that while it is better, it still seems like im having to turn the volume up too far to get any good sound.  It seems like im having to turn it up half way or more in order to be able to hear it clearly.  Again, this is really only for movies and such, not for music. 

 

Would the reason for this be that im still using the klipsch center?  I would think that using the two front mains would give plenty of volume but i could be wrong.  Im just afraid that by having to turn the volume up that far, im driving the amp too much and will cause it to run hot or damage it.

 

also, in the 871 amp configuration settings, there are 3 options, they are something like "basic", "7ch +1zone", and "5.1 bi-amp".  I left it on basic as im not using 7 speakers and im not bi-amping.  is this the correct setting?

 

ran the ypao and it set everything up, but, it says that my center and left surround are reversed (out of phase), even though the speakers are hooked up correctly.  also it set all the speakers to small and put the sub crossover at 120Hz.  I didnt change the speaker size, but I did change the sub crossover to 80Hz.  Im assuming that if i change the speaker size to large, it will be like it was on my sony AVR, that I will lose the ability to set the AVR's crossover.  should i leave this setting alone?

 

thanks

 

I think you will find one of your speakers is not as good as you think it is, possibly the center channel, that's why the sub has been set at 120hz, ignore the phase warning only if you are absolutely sure the speakers wires are hooked up correctly, i would certainly triple check all that, although YPAO sometimes gets that wrong, it's sometimes possible a speaker could leave the plant wired out of phase, i'd want to test this using a calibration disc for those two speakers, they could well be out of phase, make sure Adaptive DRC is off unless you listen late at night as that is when it becomes useful.

 

I would like to know your volume level, my Yamaha has + and - figures and 0, what volume are you playing at, if it's more than +15 you could run into trouble, i'd certainly want to keep it nearer the 0 figure, i have mine running at -10 and using my sound pressure meter i can see that's very loud and getting close to home theater movie reference volume.

 

I'd also choose 5.1ch + Bi-Amp, that just switches on the two unused speaker amps, i'd actually use those two amps for bi-amping my front speakers.


Edited by FoxyMulder, August 27 2013 - 04:28 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

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"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#49 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 27 2013 - 05:17 AM

Modern AVR use "reference to 0" volume.

 

When you see the number go up 3(like 15 to 12) what you are doing is doubling power.

 

So way down at -40(where I have my initial "turn on volume") you are only producing around .000000005 watt.

 

And 0db equals "max power".

 

So -3 is half power

-6 is 1/4

-10 is 10% of power

-20 is 1%

-30 is .1%

-40 is .01%

 

Which is why you "turn it up so high".



#50 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:04 PM

the p363's are not bi-ampable.  on the 871 AVR, the volume control is measured in decibels.  The range apparently is from -80db to +16db.  also along with the decibel reading, there is a bar graphic that comes up that shows how far your volume is.  in order for me to attain reasonable listening volume, i.e., in order to be able to clearly make out the dialogue, i have to go up to about -25.5 dbl, which according to the little bar indicator below it, is roughly half way, if not a little more.  I would think that this AVR would be able to produce much better volume at lower levels than that.

 

anyway, maybe once i get my center channel and new surrounds hooked up, and a new sub, ill run the YPAO again and maybe that will fix all of it.



#51 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:07 PM

so what you are saying schan is that, if i have to get to -25db in order to hear everything clearly, im only using less than 1% of the power of my amps?



#52 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:10 PM

You apparently never read my post(right above yours). Read it.

My Onkyo NR1008(a lot stronger than your 871) is used at -25. Action movies around -15.

#53 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:17 PM

so what you are saying schan is that, if i have to get to -25db in order to hear everything clearly, im only using less than 1% of the power of my amps?


You also, apparently have no idea how power/db works in a speaker.

I'll take a guess the speakers you bought are 91db efficient.

At 1 watt, you have 91.
At 2 you have 94.
At 4 you have 97.(this is "rocking")
At 8 you have 100.
At 16 you have 103. (Almost BD reference volume)
At 32 you have 106. You are going deaf.

#54 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:19 PM

i apologize, i did read your post, i was just making sure i understood it correctly



#55 of 60 gene c

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:20 PM

For most receivers I'd say -25 is a fairly normal volume setting. -15 for a good movie experience.That's the range I've used for many years. Of course, there are many variables involved.  If you have to go around the 0 mark or into the + range then I'd be concerned. Or have some ear plugs nearby.

 

Think of the volume numbers like an earthquake scale. -40 to -25 is fairly quiet. -25 to -10 things begin to change a little more quickly. -10 and above the volume increases rappidly as you turn the volume knob.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#56 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:25 PM

you are correct, i do not know how power/db works in a speaker.  the 363's are "rated" at 93db efficiency, but the tests done at audioholics say they actually found that the sensitivity was actually around 91db, so you are correct.  also, the speakers are rated 8ohm from infinity, but again, audioholics tests say they are actually a 4ohm speaker.



#57 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 27 2013 - 04:25 PM

Your speakers are 93db efficient, adjust my numbers +2. 100Db is deafening.

You get there on 5 watts.

#58 of 60 gene c

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Posted August 27 2013 - 05:37 PM

If you're sitting 3+ feet from your speakers (one meter) :) .

 

But I have some Primus 160's (90 db) bookshelves hooked up to my little Elite vsx-23 right now in a two channel system. I normally have the volume set around -17 to -22. Watching a baseball game  I turned it up to 0, stood 3 feet from the speaker(s) and it was hardly deafenning. Loud, yes. But tolerable.

 

That's why I only look at these numbers and statistics in general terms. They just don't seem to add up in the real world. Too many variables. 

 

Bottom line is, if -25 isn't doing it for you then turn the dial to -10 :) . Or, whatever puts a :)  on your face.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#59 of 60 Type A

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Posted August 27 2013 - 07:37 PM

the 363's are "rated" at 93db efficiency, but the tests done at audioholics say they actually found that the sensitivity was actually around 91db, so you are correct.  also, the speakers are rated 8ohm from infinity, but again, audioholics tests say they are actually a 4ohm speaker.


This is because speaker impedance is rarely cut-and-dry and that power/db breakdown never tells the whole story.  People that tell you that AVR power is ear bleeding, based solely on the power/db breakdown,  likely have little knowledge of lower output impedance or higher current reserves.   Thats why I mentioned in your Bic thread that the Primus speaker line loves good power.  Hooking the Primus up to an AVR (even one rated at "4 Ohms")  wont give you nearly the same results as a good dedicated amp.   


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#60 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 27 2013 - 07:53 PM

I'm at the opposite of that spectrum, as I've proven time, and time again, that 95% of people can't tell the difference between 10 watts from a 15wpc t-amp and 10 watts from a McIntosh MC1000.

 

Now if you want to talk about absolute musicality though...how about we fire up a pair of 3 watt Heathkit...after they've warmed up, of course.






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