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#21 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 19 2013 - 07:38 PM

Quite true, we do differ. Personally I dont consider the fact that they "still work" as a huge accolade. Theres much more to a good AVR than longevity.

 

My best sounding AVR(and if I wasn't hooked on multiple crossovers...) was my RX-V2400

 

One of the ones I still have is the HTR 5490.

 

My last Yamaha was the 6180.



#22 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 19 2013 - 07:49 PM

hmmmm...you may have something there :)  it could be something to do with speaker size in combination with the signal processing.  when listening to the abacus app, the sound IS in 2.1 format, however, i can select the esurround mode (which is set at PLII) or i can select multi stereo (same sound through all speakers) and all sounds fine, but when selecting auto format (signal processing is done via whatever signal the AV is receiving) may have problems again, due to speaker size and acoustic wave cancelation, as you mentioned.  i guess ill have to start looking at speakers sooner than i thought :/



#23 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 19 2013 - 07:56 PM

New speakers aren't going to cure the Sony EQ being set up for your prior residence.

 

That being said...

 

There are two ways to say the same thing...one a drag racing axiom, the other a crude joke...(if you get the original meaning...ahem)

 

Small speakers in a large room. Simple physics, lots of air in the room, you need lots of driver(woofer) area...which the Quintet falls way short in that regard...hence...

 

"There is no replacement for displacement"

 

The crude way to say it...

 

"The Quintet in this room are akin to throwing a hot dog down a hallway..."



#24 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 19 2013 - 08:07 PM

lol, sounds like i need a bigger hot dog...



#25 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 19 2013 - 08:32 PM

ok, so the brands im interested in, and due to my price constraints, ive narrowed it to these 4:

 

Marantz NR1604 - $649

 

Onkyo TX-NR727 - $700

 

Denon AVRx-2000 - $649

 

Yamaha RX-V675 - $550

 

in general, id have to say im leaning toward the yamaha because ive heard them before and they seem like a quality product, but would definately let you change my mind about one of these other products.

 

thanks for all the help.


Edited by Raptor382, August 19 2013 - 11:55 PM.


#26 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 19 2013 - 08:58 PM

Kinda surprised you didn't consider the Onkyo I linked right at $700.

 

Why the slimline Marantz?(there is an Amazon WH-Deal on the 5007 for $579)

 

Pretend the E series Denon don't exist.



#27 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 19 2013 - 11:54 PM

i didnt include the Onkyo because ive never dealt with them.  Ive also read they seem to have problems with HDMI port failiures.

 

E series doesn't exist..check!

 

i looked on amazon, didnt see the marantz 5007 for $579, the one they have listed is for $759.  possibly i overlooked it?



#28 of 60 Raptor382

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Posted August 20 2013 - 12:38 AM

ok, after having looked at accessories4less, there are a bunch of good options, all priced very well:

 

Yamaha RX-V871 $499

Yamaha RX-A720 Aventage $399

Denon AVR-3313CI $630

Denon AVR-X2000 $450

Denon AVR-X3000 $600

Marantz SR-5007 $500

Marantz SR-6006 $600

Marantz SR-6007 $680

Onkyo TX-NR818 $650

Onkyo TX-NR727 $600

 

and one that im curious about, though someone on here alluded to stay away from this brand, but:

 

SHERWOOD R-972 Newcastle, new, not refurbished, listed at $1799 new, accessories4less has it for $600...what's up with that?

 

other than that, all the other ones i listed are refurbished.  I guess they are all great recievers, I just have to figure out which one of those would be the best, and if I should trust a refurbished item....



#29 of 60 FoxyMulder

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Posted August 20 2013 - 02:03 AM

The Yamaha will give you real world figures of somewhere between 42 and 47 watts per channel with all 7 speakers going, that is actually typical for receivers in this price bracket, the figures they usually quote are for 1 or 2 channel driven.

 

I like the Aventage range but my experiences are with the higher priced ones of which i own one, not sure of the lower priced ones but they should be okay, i couldn't say if they are better than the ones you list, my advice is Google them all for reviews, don't just read one review, read many and read between the lines and try and get in the reviewers head, not all reviews are accurate but if you can read many reviews and all say the same thing it is a starting point, then read the forums and owners opinions and if a consensus is reached you make a decision.

 

I personally think calibration and working on speaker placement and room modes can get you much better sound than just buying a receiver and hooking up speakers and thinking the work is done, sound and room interaction with that sound play a huge part in home cinema.

 

Looking at your list, if it was me, i'd probably buy the Marantz 6007, they are tuned slightly different to Denon even though they share the same design and innards.

 

The Sherwood had a lot of problems when it was released but apparently those issues are all fixed now with firmware updates, it also has Trinnov 3D sound calibration, i hear good things about this, might be worth considering if very good sound quality is all you want in a receiver.

 

Small speakers in a big room, well you could try a couple of decent subwoofers and also place the speakers nearer to you, this can cure some room mode issues, it's really a case of experimenting and you could use something like this, link below, to really make your sound much better, it will require additional equipment, i'll go so far as to say that room calibration could enhance your sound so much you will think you have a brand new receiver without needing to buy one.

 

http://www.hometheat...ack.com/roomeq/

 

The receiver will have sound calibration built in via a mic you hook up, it might be YPAO or Audyssey MultEQ XT or Audyssey MultEQ XT 32 or Trinnov or Pioneers MCACC, they do a decent job but i don't think they are as good as doing it manually yourself, i found the higher frequencies were lost with YPAO calibration and preferred tweaking the settings myself, i let the auto calibration do the speaker distances, it gets the subwoofer spot on because it takes into account reflections before the sub hits your listening position, other than that i prefer manual calibration using equipment and discs i own.


Edited by FoxyMulder, August 20 2013 - 02:27 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

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"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#30 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 05:15 AM

The two "beasts" of your list are the NR818 and V871. Hands down, they will out-muscle the rest.

 

Onkyo, sure they've had issues. Their "HMDI board failures" are legendary on the X06 models. That was 4-5 years ago. Their X08 had a flat-wire issue that is part of a permanent recall that Onkyo will fix forever. If you search Ebay, there are "We'll fix your Onkyo board" listings for $85-$125, depending which AVR you have.

 

So all the Onkyo naysayers have a point, but only give half the story.(most of the  naysaying is because the last 6 years Onkyo has been eating up market share*. The last 5 years, each year...the top 10 selling AVR, a minimum of 6 each...were Onkyo. It was so "bad" during the X07 model years that Best Buy used to keep the 607, 707 and 807 in stacks 20 feet from the front door so people could walk in, grab one and leave. When I worked for the wholesaler of Onkyo that year...Onkyo ran out of product in the US in December. The model year doesn't end till March. The early release of the X08 models, that had the flatwire problem, their rush to market 2 months early...is partially to blame for the recall.)

 

The Sherwood is a user experience nightmare. Trinnov is the only reason to even try it. From a pure sound standpoint, it is probably the best there is. 

 

I have owned Denon and currently have a 4308 collecting dust in a closet. It was my office AVR for 2 years. Paired with a DVD 3910(I think that is the one I had) the DVD-A and SACD was out of this world. I replaced it when I got a screaming deal on the Integra DTR 7.8 that resides in there now.

 

Depending on the user experience you need...

 

Onkyo and Yamaha are the two easiest for learning the basics. IE, grandma comes over to babysit the kids, and she can figure out enough stuff to watch Murder She Wrote.

 

If you get an activity based remote(Harmony 1) then it won't matter(relatively speaking) which AVR you get when it comes time to "push play" for a BD.

 

*Yamaha could, if it wanted to, bump heads with Onkyo...from a sales standpoint. They'd rather chase profits.

Denon is "finally" back from the effects of the earthquake and tsunami(their product offerings over $1200 have been a joke the last 3 years...so they've been no competition). 

Pioneer/Elite. Where do we begin. This is a company that acts like they're are planning their own exit from the home market like Kenwood did ages ago.

Marantz is now a "Denon in fancier clothes". They can't compete yet with Onkyo over $1200.

 

So yeah, people will whine and cry when "another person chose an Onkyo". But...besides Yamaha, who who else has product to compete?



#31 of 60 FoxyMulder

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Posted August 20 2013 - 07:01 AM


So all the Onkyo naysayers have a point, but only give half the story.(most of the  naysaying is because the last 6 years Onkyo has been eating up market share*.

 

Yeah that Onkyo TX-NR818 has almost everything, lots of features the XT32 version of Audyssey and DTS Neo, probably sounds great, i just can't get over how ugly Onkyo AV Receivers are, if they would just work on a more pleasing design they would get my vote, i know it should just be about sound quality but for me i would take a good looking receiver which gives very good sound quality over an ugly receiver which does the same.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#32 of 60 GlennF

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Posted August 20 2013 - 07:48 AM

It is interesting that the person who started this forum is debating between exactly the same two receivers I am - the Yamaha RXV 675B or the Denon AVRX 2000.  I got some opinions (thanks to those who responded)  - equally divided down the middle - although one post said the Denon is easier to set up.  So far no one seems to think one receiver is definitively better than the other, unless someone has something new to add.



#33 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 07:49 AM

I thought you were supposed to watch in a dark room...then you can't see it.

I will give you the looks though. Marantz went with the Cyclops look. Except for that tacky "looks like a button" cover over the AV input, the AVR do look good.

#34 of 60 Type A

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Posted August 20 2013 - 07:49 AM

The Sherwood R-972 is an extremely well-built AVR, unbelievable for the money,  but its video is terrible even just as a switcher.  Excellent room correction and great sound,  it might work well for your gear but I had video handshake issues constantly with my displays.  It also lacked features Ive come to expect from my AVR, things like an OSD overlay (volume/mute, DSP modes, sources), no max/power-on volume settings, no dual subs, no dual HDMI outs, no network, ect...

 

Read reviews, lots out there.  Got in on the $600 brand new A4L sale but I was glad to get it sold 9 months later.

 

The 720 doesnt have all the features of my 3010 but see my little mini review of the Yamaha Aventage line here, gives some good perspective on different manufactures also:

 

http://www.hometheat...amaha-rxa-2030/


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#35 of 60 schan1269

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Posted August 20 2013 - 07:54 AM

It is interesting that the person who started this forum is debating between exactly the same two receivers I am - the Yamaha RXV 675B or the Denon AVRX 2000. I got some opinions (thanks to those who responded) - equally divided down the middle - although one post said the Denon is easier to set up. So far no one seems to think one receiver is definitively better than the other, unless someone has something new to add.


Overall easiest to set up and use is Onkyo/Integra.

Best "wow" GUI is Yamaha's Advanced GUI.

Best Apple integration is Denon/Marantz. A close 2nd is Yamaha.

Best overall networking, Onkyo/Integra. I doubt anybody else ever catches up.

#36 of 60 Type A

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Posted August 20 2013 - 08:18 AM

I found the Onkyo networking to be a royal PITA to use, maybe newer versions are more user friendly than the 3007 I experienced.  My Yamaha networking, on the other hand, begs to be set up and used on a regular basis.  Very simple and user friendly.


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#37 of 60 Dan Driscoll

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Posted August 20 2013 - 08:33 AM

I'm going to throw in a curve-ball; checkout the Sherbourn SR-8100. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the mass market brands, but for pure sound quality it's as good as or better than anything else on your list. It has everything needed for great sound, without all the fluff. What that means is there are great amps, DACs and decoders in chassis, but no AirPlay, no iPhone dock and no networking. However, if you just have to connect your Android or Apple device, it does have Bluetooth.

 

Emotive (Jade Design) acquired Sherbourn a few years ago and is now merging the product lines. The Sherbourn nameplate will go away, but most of the products will be updated and continued under the Emotive and Emotive Pro nameplates. Right now Emotive is clearing our all of the Sherbourn branded products at ridiculously low prices and you can get the SR-8100 for just $549 while they last. Emotive will honor the 5 year warranty.

 

FTR, I owned a 5/1500A for almost 10 years and I just bought an SR-8100.

 

If you must have AirPlay and networking, Yamaha and Marantz are your best options, IMO. However, if sound quality is your top priority the Sherbourn will be very tough to beat, especially at that price.


Edited by Dan Driscoll, August 20 2013 - 08:34 AM.

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#38 of 60 GlennF

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Posted August 20 2013 - 08:40 AM

Actually, Airplay and all the rest is not of real interest to me. I don't even have my current receiver hooked up to the internet. I use the receiver to play blu-rays, for my television, and my CD player. That is about it. I don't even have an IPOD. I have an MP3 player - but Sony - because I use it principally in the gym so the Sony suffices as it takes a bit of a beating. It would be nice to be able to plug the MP3 into something so I can play it through the receiver. Does this change the recommendation? Not sure Sherbourn is even available up here in Toronto.

#39 of 60 Sam Posten

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Posted August 20 2013 - 08:41 AM

Huge fan of the Denon 3000 series. I've got a 3806 that is still going strong powering my computer speakers, a 3312 in my living room and a 3313 in my basement.

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#40 of 60 Type A

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Posted August 20 2013 - 08:44 AM

So all the Onkyo naysayers have a point, but only give half the story.(most of the  naysaying is because the last 6 years Onkyo has been eating up market share*. The last 5 years, each year...the top 10 selling AVR, a minimum of 6 each...were Onkyo. It was so "bad" during the X07 model years that Best Buy used to keep the 607, 707 and 807 in stacks 20 feet from the front door so people could walk in, grab one and leave. When I worked for the wholesaler of Onkyo that year...Onkyo ran out of product in the US in December. The model year doesn't end till March. The early release of the X08 models, that had the flatwire problem, their rush to market 2 months early...is partially to blame for the recall.)

 

This is the same general public that has made Bose such a huge success.  Onkyo is about lots of features at rock bottom prices and lots of features at rock bottom prices sells AVRs.  However when you take the time to ask who does it best the answer probably wont be Onkyo. 


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106".  Secondary:  Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST30.
Paradigm Studio Version 5: 20 (5) &  ADP-590 (2).  Hsu: VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2).
Yamaha RXA3010 & Emotiva XPA5. Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP5000. Xbox 360, Integra DPT1.
*My Home Theater Photo Journal*




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