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Am I missing something...(just some "for me" info)

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#1 of 6 OFFLINE   schan1269


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Posted July 28 2013 - 03:33 PM

I remember, back in the day(early 90s to 2003), that every AVR you could buy handled 4ohm speakers.


Of course, back then...we still had Technics, Kenwood and JVC(few others as well). On another thread here is a guy with Polk SDA 2. Back then, you could buy any AVR you wanted and be fine. Cerwin Vega D series were 3-5ohm. Infinity didn't have anything floor standing over 6ohm.


In the last 5-8 years...what happened?


Craptitude of the market taking over?

Less competetion(from, what...12 viable AVR makers down to...5(???) now)?


I came across this weekend  with my first "my AVR died" situation(I design home theatres)...where the manufacturer is denying the claim...due to the speakers.


The AVR in question was $1800. The speaker set was $14,000. In the process of the AVR imploding...the main channel tweeters were fried(speaker company is making good on them...as even they are shocked).


Anyway...any ideas?

#2 of 6 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted July 29 2013 - 03:23 PM

Haven't speakers gotten more efficient and 8 ohm loads tend to be the norm now?  Doesnt powering $14k worth of speakers with an AVR seem unusual?   I understand uber efficient speakers exist but as far as I know theyre not in that price range, save maybe one or two exceptions (namely older Klipsch).  What were the make and model of these speakers you are using in this example? 

JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#3 of 6 OFFLINE   schan1269


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Posted July 29 2013 - 04:03 PM

The speakers in question are Ohm Walsh.

He has 9.1 wide. Chose an AVR because the speakers are all 88db-ish.

Ohm claims 6ohm. However a sweep reveals they dip into 3 under 1k. The worst offender is Ohm's Tall Center 3000.

The theater is a pair of 5000, 3000 center and(I think) 3 pairs of 1000.

The 5000 are the ones the tweets died in when the AVR died.

#4 of 6 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 29 2013 - 04:48 PM

How can a cheap $120 htib power it's own 3 ohm speakers if a $600 and up name brand receiver can't power 4 ohm speakers?


Why do they even produce 4 ohm speakers if 90% of the receivers on the market can't power them?


Obviously all of this is way over my head.


I've always thought that as they add all the new must-have features to new models while keeping the same price point that something had to give somehere and it's over-all lack of quality and beta testing and especially the quality of the amp secton. Since so many products are bought on-line now they're surely trying to keep weight down which means a smaller power supply.


And I agree with Ty. Using an $1800 receiver to power $14,000 worth of speakers was asking just for trouble. Maybe it should have been up to the task, but not these days. I recently bought a Marantz 7005 to replace the 6005 just because I was worried about the same thing happening to my 4 ohm speakers and/or receiver. And I'm still going to keep my little AMC 5 channel in the closet just in case. It's funny how the quality of automobiles has gone through the roof while the quality of electronics has gone through the floor. Have you driven a Ford...lately? This isn't your fathers Oldsmobile! Opps! Bad example.

"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.


#5 of 6 OFFLINE   Phil A

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Posted July 31 2013 - 02:17 PM

I agree that using a receiver can cause issues with speakers like that.  Receivers like that share power supplies (and so do many entry level separate amplifiers).  I am in process of a move and picked up a pair of Ohm Micro Walsh Talls for a secondary system.  I'm just going to do 4.1 in that room and have an amp and due to the quality of the speakers just picked up a 2 channel preamp with HT Bypass and ordered a separate DAC.  Obviously the latter couple of things are for 2-channel music.  I had 4 ohm speakers in the bedroom system (not a horrible load - 3 ohms minimum) and was using that outboard amp for the left and right until I took things apart for an upcoming move and only doing 4.1.  Even in the basement I have which is a huge room (perhaps almost 700 sq. ft, where I am doing 8.1 and have a big (9 channel) Onkyo 1008 with 8 ohms speakers (3.5 minimum), I have an outboard amp driving the height channels.  If the receiver only uses 6 of the 9 channels, it's not going to be put in a situation where it is pushing the limit.  I had a friend many moons ago who took out a driver on an Ohm F (and the drivers were titanium and in those days like 30 years ago cost $600 each) due to inadequate amplication and playback levels.  In the old days, some of the receivers were really hefty as they had amplifiers and power supplies that could handle more.  I just sold an old Marantz 7300 OSE (orig. spec. ed. with all copper chassis) that had 6x110 and could drive things tons better than the Marantz 6003 I have in the bedroom system now.

#6 of 6 OFFLINE   schan1269


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Posted July 31 2013 - 02:54 PM

The AVR didn't die from abuse. The claim was denied simply from a sweep test showing 3.2ohm minimum.

The AVR in question is 4ohm stable. Has separate block construction. And as the claim was denied, it even said...

"AVR shows no sign of over-heating, never went into protection."

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