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Replacement for VSX-1021


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11 replies to this topic

#1 of 12 OFFLINE   jackbur23

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Posted July 23 2013 - 09:53 AM

I want to upgrade my pioneer VSX-1021...there is simply not enough wattage and it sounds too bright.  I am looking at the Denon 4311 ci,   Yamaha RXA-3030, or the Onkyo TX-NR-3010.  Which of these would sound the best?  I have Polk RTi-8's, with blackstone surrounds (which I hate) and would like to upgrade to FXi-6 dipole surrounds.   Any help is appreciated...thanks!



#2 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 23 2013 - 04:56 PM

The Yamaha can do 11.1.The Onkyo delivers the most power.The 4311(being 4 model years old) is the best deal.

#3 of 12 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 23 2013 - 05:29 PM

Have you done any calibration with your old receiver and tested whether the room is having an effect on your sound quality, i seriously doubt there is a wattage issue going on here unless you are playing at extremely high ear bursting levels, maybe your speakers don't play well with this particular receiver, what make are they. ?

 

All the receivers you listed will do an excellent job, you can spend less and still do an excellent job, depends on your speakers though.

 

The Onkyo can do DTS Neo X, not many blu rays with that but there are a few including The Expendables 2, i like the idea of more advanced sound codecs so if you can afford it i'd go for the Onkyo for the DTS Neo X reason alone, you need to be able to have the space for front wide and front height speakers and would need to buy additional speakers if you want to listen to DTS Neo X.

 

If you don't care for DTS Neo X then go for the Yamaha, that's my opinion, don't even go for the top model, buy the 2030, if you need more control over the subwoofer, and save yourself some money, if you don't need more control over the subwoofer then get the 1030 model, i have an 1010 model and it is excellent sound quality and can go to reference level volumes with no problem, calibration is important to get the best from your speakers and room.

 

One last final thing, do not pay any attention to the quoted wattage, you need to double it to hear just a 3db increase in volume level and most manufacturers seriously cheat when they quote the figures, they are misleading and should be ignored.


Edited by FoxyMulder, July 23 2013 - 05:30 PM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#4 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 24 2013 - 06:44 AM

The problem is mostly your speakers. Pioneers Advanced MCACC offers the most "tweaking" abilities of all the room correction eq's so if you can't re-adjust things to your liking I'd think about looking for some softer, warmer speakers. I use Infinity Beta's with an Elite vsx-23 and they sound very nice together. Beta's are on the other end of the sound spectrum from RTi's being fairly laid-back. They're also an excellent value on the used market.Polk RTi's are very bright compared to most other brands except Klipsch of course. I had RTi8's and 6's, 4's, CSi5 and just couldn't get used to what I felt was a harsh sounding mid-range. I even swapped tweeter and the small bass port to lower the tweeter (which actually helped more then I thought it would) but eventually had to relace them with Swan Diva's. The newer RTiA's have been toned down a bit. The Diva's were an improvement but I now have Polk LSi's which are much better than both imo. I'm sure there are better speakers out there then the original LSi's but I can't forsee any reason to look any further. That Dual Ring-Radiating tweeter is yummy!Polk RTi's are fairly efficient speakers and don't require a whole lot of power to play very loud. But the 1021 uses the same amp section as the 521 and 821. The 1121 added a bit more umph! but as others have said, you really need to crank it up to to tell any, if any, difference. I currently have a Marantz 5005 (100 wpc), 6005 (110 wpc) and 7005 (125 wpc) and all three sem to power the 4 ohm LSi's nicely to moderate levels.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#5 of 12 OFFLINE   jackbur23

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Posted July 24 2013 - 10:23 AM

I tend to disagree about it being the speakers only cause I heard them hooked up to a denon before I bought them and the sound was 100% better....so if not wattage maybe the way an individual receiver reproduces the sound? if everyone is pretty sure about the polks I'd love to hear recommendations...i have abot 2k to spend initially...thanks!

Edited by jackbur23, July 24 2013 - 10:24 AM.


#6 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 24 2013 - 11:53 AM

Maybe your ears hate class D.Most people, when their speakers are actually good...like yours, can actually tell the difference in amp styles.

#7 of 12 OFFLINE   jackbur23

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Posted July 24 2013 - 01:27 PM

I never hear the Blackstone surrounds at all, even after calibrating. Maybe I have the wrong surrounds too:(:(

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 24 2013 - 04:26 PM

Have you adjusted anything since MCACC?



#9 of 12 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 24 2013 - 04:43 PM

I tend to disagree about it being the speakers only cause I heard them hooked up to a denon before I bought them and the sound was 100% better....so if not wattage maybe the way an individual receiver reproduces the sound?if everyone is pretty sure about the polks I'd love to hear recommendations...i have abot 2k to spend initially...thanks!

 

If you can't "hear" the surrounds then it isn't a speaker problem but a calibration problem. Try upping the volumes on the surround speakers (if you haven't already done so). If the volume is fine but you don't care for the sound then it's a speaker problem.

 

I know "100% better" is a number you kind of threw out there. We all do it. But a receiver should not have made that much of a difference. I've had over 20 different mid-range receivers over the last 3-5 years (I have 6-7 somewhere around here right now) and while there is some difference in sound quality it really isn't that much. "Usability" and "funability" are what make me like a receiver these days. Marantz receivers are very easy to setup and operate (usability) so it's what I have in my livingroom now. In my family room is a Pioneer Elite. I love the tweaking and flexability of Pioneers (funability). Speakers can sound quite a bit different when heard in different rooms. Certainly more then receivers.

 

I've always thought Pioneers had a crystal clear sound to them. Not cold persay, just clear. Probably not the best match for bright speakers. Maybe Audyssey or YPAO can do a better job of toning down those RTi's.

 

Sorry Sam, but I couldn't tell the difference between the vsx-23 I already had and the SC-35 I bought a couple of years ago. Couldn't jusify the price difference so I sold the 35. More powerfull amp section and updated features yes but it didn't sound any different to me.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#10 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 28 2013 - 12:25 PM

"Sorry Sam, but I couldn't tell the difference between the vsx-23 I already had and the SC-35 I bought a couple of years ago. Couldn't jusify the price difference so I sold the 35. More powerfull amp section and updated features yes but it didn't sound any different to me."

 

Not that I want to pick on Class D amplification, but.(yes I know the RTi-8 is "nominal" 8ohm)

 

Over on Magnepan's website they wax prophetic over the shortcomings of Class D amps dying on <4ohm speakers(which the Maggies certainly apply).

 

They don't care if the Class D resides in an AVR(Pio/Elite at the moment) or an actual separate amp.

 

Maybe the "sound of impending death" makes it through the speakers?????



#11 of 12 OFFLINE   jackbur23

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Posted August 10 2013 - 10:05 AM

Are the rti12's any better? I really hate buying speakers again but if I have to....

#12 of 12 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted August 10 2013 - 10:55 AM

Better how?

 

Bass? Yes.

Overall sound? That is for you to decide.






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