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Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray?

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#1481 of 1490 TravisR

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Posted Yesterday, 11:50 AM

I was 10 in '77 and have vivid memories of the time. Save for the comic and novelization, merchandising was non exisitent until late summer early fall and then a flood of stuff by Christmas (though famously, not the main Kenner toys...you literally got a I.O.U to put under the tree instead).

 

I said it before but they had licensing agreements for toys, cards and comic books all in place before the release of the movie. If the movie had been something of a surprise hit with kids, they wouldn't have had those licenses in place until after it was proven that kids were into it (like Planet Of The Apes).



#1482 of 1490 Joel Fontenot

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Posted Yesterday, 03:01 PM

I was still 11 when Star Wars came out.  I wouldn't turn 12 until later that fall.

 

I don't recall the deal with the toys at the time, because, honestly, I wasn't interested in them.

 

I was interested in the models.  I seem to recall that MPC put out the models pretty quickly after the movie came out.  Although it still could have been later in '77 as I know that the R2-D2 and C-3PO models were the first.  Later came Luke's X-Wing fighter.  '78 is when Vader's TIE fighter came out.

 

I always wondered why they never released the regular TIE fighter back then.


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#1483 of 1490 TravisR

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Posted Yesterday, 03:16 PM

I was still 11 when Star Wars came out.  I wouldn't turn 12 until later that fall.

 

I don't recall the deal with the toys at the time, because, honestly, I wasn't interested in them.

 

I was interested in the models.  I seem to recall that MPC put out the models pretty quickly after the movie came out.  Although it still could have been later in '77 as I know that the R2-D2 and C-3PO models were the first.  Later came Luke's X-Wing fighter.  '78 is when Vader's TIE fighter came out.

 

I always wondered why they never released the regular TIE fighter back then.

 

Who needs a TIE Fighter model when you could have this? :)

vadervan.jpg'

 

The 1970's were a weird and wonderful time.


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#1484 of 1490 Persianimmortal

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Posted Yesterday, 04:07 PM

As far as it being a film aimed at kids...this is a fantasy likely perpetuated by people who were young children when Jedi was released in '83. That film was absolutely aimed at them. The other two, not nearly as much.

 

From this Interview with John Dykstra (Dykstra being the special effects supervisor on Star Wars) first published in the Fantasy Film Journal volume 1, issue 1 Winter 1977:

 

[Star Wars] was made for kids. It was made for twelve year olds, in fact...Absolute broad appeal. Appealing to the kid in all of us is what it was designed to do.


#1485 of 1490 gizzy2000

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Posted Yesterday, 05:02 PM

There's a difference between making a movie that appeals to the "kid in all of us," and making a movie like Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace (and even Return of the Jedi to a degree) where it's clear that the goal was to sell toys and make small children laugh at obnoxiously juvenile jokes. Someone said earlier that Star Wars and The Phantom Menace were both aimed towards the exact same audience, and you can tell from the overall tone of both films that that just isn't the case. Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back were by no means juvenile, but they were adventurous, exciting, and creative, and that's why younger audiences and kids liked it. Phantom Menace was clearly aimed at a much younger demographic, and it didn't attempt to be as mature (but still mostly lighthearted) as the first two, and parts of the third films were. Maybe they were directed at the same audience, but if that's the case then Lucas' standards of entertainment for children has changed dramatically. I've always suspected that the whole, "this film is made for the kiddies," idea was just an excuse for the negative reaction to the Phantom Menace, because by the time he got to Revenge of the Sith it's clear that he didn't care about aiming anything at children anymore.



#1486 of 1490 SilverWook

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Posted Yesterday, 05:14 PM

Didn't Lucas try to make the Star Wars more Kid friendly by making Han look like a victim shooting Greedo in self defense instead of blasting him into the upholstery without warning?  Also the clone issue.  Sure, the good guys kill of a lot of stormtroopers, but as it turns out they are clones, and not real people so its OK, or easier to swallow at least.  

It was never said onscreen that stormtroopers in the OT are clones. I do recall some magazine articles that claimed it at the time, but no idea where they got it from. The "official" story from Lucasfilm is that the Empire's ranks had been filled by non clones by the time of Episode IV.

 

Thank goodness Lucas didn't re-dub all the Stormtroopers to sound like Jango Fett.


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#1487 of 1490 Paul Scott

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Posted Yesterday, 05:36 PM

Here is a post I drafted for another forum last fall when Rinzler's book on Jedi came out.

 

There has always been a huge gulf to me in just who the first two films were aimed at compared to the final film of the OT. It's always been as obvious to me as the nose on Jimmy Durrantes face. ROTJ is when this property started becoming infantile.

 

and here is just part of the reason for why I have always said that

 

 

Character Continuity from Empire to Jedi

Even Brad Bird in his forward, after making sure to be as complimentary and positive as possible (he is after all a peer and counts Lucas now as a personal friend and mentor) admits that as excited as he was as a teen for the film's release, he walked out of the theater in May '83 with many of the same 'beefs' I'd had.


Quote:
Brad Bird writes
The disconnect between Jedi's Luke Skywalker and Empire's Luke who had cut short his training against the advice of his Jedi Mentors to save his friends, then (a) failed to save his friends; (b) got his ass kicked, losing a hand in the process; and ©, found out the most dastardly villain in the galaxy is also his dad
Luke is one humbled Jedi at the conclusion of Empire, so I had trouble connecting that guy with the cocky dude who shows up at Jabba's palace in the beginning of Jedi. I also wished the film had followed up on Vader's plan (as Vader himself stated in Empire) for Luke to join him in his overthrow of the Emperor...

For ayone who was here 10 years ago leading up to the release of the DVDs,  these ciriticims are almost word for word what I'd written (and re-wrote ad nauseum) in those months.

Interesting then that in one GL's very first pass at a story treatment he has in the first act

  • Vader first face to face with the Emperor has them talking then arguing
  • the Emperor and Moff Jerjerrod then are shown plotting against Vader
  • Leia does not abandon her duties to Alliance to run off and help save her boyfriend. In the first act she is already involved in a separate mission (on the moon similar to mission in the final film).
  • In the first act Luke is also shown trying to resolve things with Yoda and Ben before going to Tattoine.
  • The rescue of Han takes place in the second act.

A subsequent variation has Lucas toying with the idea of having the Emperor capture Luke (on or near Tatooine) with the purpose of keeping him away from Vader.

While all this unfortunately still operates within a basic lazy plot of "there's a new Death Star we have to destroy", at least we now know the characters were being considered with an eye toward stronger emotional and expressed continuity.
Key here for me is a first scene between Vader and the Emperor that would have been VASTLY SUPERIOR to what ended up on film- not only because it flows organically from the stated convictions and mindsets of these two characters from the last film, but because it also points the way to more interesting and mature conflicts that would have had to play out and get resolved over the course of the film.

This would have been the first scene from the film, as Vader is summoned to appear before the Emperor



Quote:
The Emperor
Lord Vader, you have been away from us far too long. You seem...much weaker. I'm afraid that prolonged stay in the outer systems did not agree with you.

Vader
Yes, my master.

The Emperor
But we ask impossible things of you, don't we? Perhaps it is time for a task less demanding?

Vader
No, My Master, I beg you. I have all but turned him to the dark side.

The Emperor
Have you? We don't think so. Young Skywalker is more powerful now, than before your feeble attempts to convert him. He must be destroyed...DESTROYED do you hear?

Vader
Master you must give me...

The Emperor raises his hand and Vader's breathing suddenly stops

The Emperor
You are weak. More machine than man. You should be thankful we don't destroy you along with your troublesome offspring.

Vader collapses on the floor and the Emperor lowers his hand

The Emperor
Your son has become stronger with the force than you. It is as we have foreseen. Only WE can destroy him now.

Moff Jerjerrod looks on nervous. Vader clutching his throat, starts to breath again and rises to a kneeling position.

The Emperor (continued)
We want him here. We will tolerate no more discussion on the subject. The boy is ours.

Vader
Yes. Forgive me, Master.

The Emperor
Leave us... we have other matters to attend to.

Vader exits the throne room and the elevator door closes silently behind him.
As he passes the guards they snap to attention. Vader doesn't notice.

Moff Jerjerrod is beckoned closer to the Emperor. He on a step of the throne.


Moff Jerrjerrod
Yes, master.

The Emperor
Watch him closely. Lord Vader is still strong enough to cloud his thoughts. We suspect his motives in trying to convert the boy, but, in time, young Skywalker will embrace the dark side of the force.

At this point Vader tries to establish a mental contact with Luke, warning him of the Emperors plan and reemphasizing their need to join forces and defeat him.
At this point Yoda enters his dream state and warns Luke not to be confused by Vader. Luke questions both Yoda and Ben on why they didn't tell him sooner...

There are several things here I just love.

1) continuity from ESB.

  • Vader was given an assignment and failed and there is consequence from the Emperor for it.
  • Vaders petitioning to luke to join him was a concrete idea that is followed up on ...and the all powerful Emperor is shown to be suspicious immediately.
    This is a FAR more powerful and commanding conception of the character rather than the passive wizend crone that changes his all important goals for no real reason.
    (" eh, forget what I said in the last film. There's no urgency in getting luke. Eventually he will come to us.")
  • Luke is early on shown as wracked with doubt and confusion over what he has learned in the last film. He is NOT a swaggering bad ass. He has clearly been impacted by the last films events and that is carried right over here.

2) New and interesting conflict is established right off the bat

  • Vader is now in clear conflict with the Emperor
  • Jerjerrod is also positioned as a point of conflict for Vader to navigate around
  • the very first scene with Lukes is where we see the conflict raging in his psyche. This isn't put on pause for the first act so we can have a feel good set piece and then we hit play again. We are going to see the character have to function throughout the film with this underpinning all his actions and motivations.

 

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#1488 of 1490 TravisR

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Posted Yesterday, 06:18 PM

I've always suspected that the whole, "this film is made for the kiddies," idea was just an excuse for the negative reaction to the Phantom Menace...

Somewhere in the last couple of pages, there's a quote from George Lucas saying how he made Star Wars for kids growing up without myths, etc. which pre-dates his writing of The Phantom Menace. That's not to say that he felt that way in 1977 but he definitely said it years before the prequels.

 

 

It was never said onscreen that stormtroopers in the OT are clones. I do recall some magazine articles that claimed it at the time, but no idea where they got it from. The "official" story from Lucasfilm is that the Empire's ranks had been filled by non clones by the time of Episode IV.

I know it's somewhat in flux right now but is that considered canon? Since Attack Of The Clones, I've just figured that Stormtrooper ranks were a mix of humans and clones (more humans as the more rapidly-aging clones aged, died or retired).



#1489 of 1490 Persianimmortal

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Posted Yesterday, 06:34 PM

Why the need to overanalyze a movie? We've now had people connected with the original movie cited as saying, way back in 1977, that it was primarily a children's film (in one case, a specific mention of twelve year olds as the target audience). This doesn't mean that adults can't enjoy the original trilogy, or the prequel trilogy, if they so wish. Conversely, if you don't enjoy any of the movies, then no amount of quotes or debating will suddenly make you enjoy them.

 

The nonsensical attacks on George Lucas are, to my mind at least, far more infantile than anything found in the prequel trilogy. Must ageing Star Wars fans insist that the films are aimed at them? Are they embarrassed to just enjoy the movies for what they are?

 

If we employ Ockham's Razor, the simplest theory as to why Lucas aimed the prequels at kids is because that's who he's always pictured as the main audience for the movies. The competing theories are all needlessly convoluted and ascribe malicious intent on Lucas' part, as though he was deliberately ignoring the majority of fans and trying his best to screw up the franchise.



#1490 of 1490 hanshotfirst1138

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Posted Yesterday, 09:16 PM

I kind of think that somewhere between the original trilogy and the prequels, Lucas took a genuine interest in adding some sort of political overtone to things and tried to deal with that with the prequels. The problem is that he was still trying to do it with the fantasy serial format, and the tones clashed wildly.

Anyway, sounds like we contribute to speculate in circles about any restoration with official word from Disney, which doesn't seem to be forthcoming. I'm still reticent to hope. P





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