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Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray?

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#801 of 1552 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 22 2014 - 05:40 PM

Mike - gotta change your handle to Hanwastheonlyonewhoshot1138, because Greedo never got a shot off. That's how much of a badass Han was :D

 

Greedo would have been rubbish at poker, he talked too much and gave his hand away. ;)


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#802 of 1552 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted July 22 2014 - 06:16 PM

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Just realized how fitting this quote was given the Han/Greedo scene is essentially a homage of an early scene in this movie with The Bad (Lee Van Cleef) visiting the ranch to get information on Carson and the gold. In that scene too he shoots the other guy through the table, before the rancher has a chance to get a shot off.


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#803 of 1552 OFFLINE   hanshotfirst1138

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Posted July 22 2014 - 07:21 PM

And now he's been Lucas-ized too, turned orange and had his mono taken away :(.

I just saw "Episode IV" at the Film Forum in NYC as part of an Alec Guinness festival at the end of June. They showed an archival 35mm print of the 1997 special edition version. I saw that the AFI Theater in Maryland is doing a similar festival, and they will also be showing the 1997 special edition version, probably the exact same print I saw in NY.

I think if a theater wants to show "Star Wars", at this point, those are the options, and reading between the lines of what Film Forum was saying about getting the print, Fox may not be making it easy to get one of the special edition, and they're not providing the original version in any way, shape or form (of course, this is not news). The print was in pretty decent condition, it had obviously been run a bunch of time but scratches and fading seemed minimal. The 1997 versions of the new CGI seemed inferior to what's on the Blu-ray.

I'm actually a little surprised that "Star Wars" (any version) isn't shown in repertory more often, but maybe Fox makes it nearly impossible for it to be shown? If you live in NYC, you can see the original Robocop, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, Blue Velvet, The Shining, The Big Lebowski, Eraserhead, Jaws, 12 Monkeys and a few other titles multiple times in a year, they seem to rotate in and out of the various theaters that do midnight showings pretty regularly. With the possible exception of Raiders, Star Wars is a bigger hit than all of those movies, so I'm surprised there aren't more opportunities to see it on the big screen. I've been living in the NYC area since fall 2009, and last month was the first time any Star Wars film (not counting the Episode I 3D re-release) has been booked in a theater around here, and it was for one showing only, which sold out well in advance. Usually Film Forum will add showings for their most popular films, and seem to have planned gaps in the schedule to allow a one-day-only screening to be extended if there's demand. Considering the line for it went around the block, with a pretty decent sized standby line, there does seem to be demand.

Is there anyone in the know who might be able to comment on the Fox/Lucasfilm policy on letting theaters screen the film? Clearly they don't want the original, unaltered version shown but it is surprising to me that no versions of it are shown at really any time around here. Considering so many of its contemporaries are shown regularly in repertory here, it seems like it's something other than lack of audience interest that's keeping it from being shown.

Didn't Lucas go on a quest to destroy as many of the pre-SE prints as he possibly could and restrict that version ever being shown?

Let me ask you a couple of things:

1) Have you actually watched the Blu-ray?
2) Have you watched the Blu-ray on a professionally calibrated display with less than 3 delta error?


Never have, never will. I will watch Star Wars again when the OOT comes out in HD, not before. So basically never.

Edited by hanshotfirst1138, July 22 2014 - 07:26 PM.

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#804 of 1552 OFFLINE   Kevin EK

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Posted July 22 2014 - 11:37 PM

Will you settle for an HD transfer of each of the original trilogy movies as a bonus feature on a Blu-ray release?   I do think you may get that in a couple of years.  Will that be enough, or do you need to see an entire release based solely on the original cuts?


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#805 of 1552 OFFLINE   Steen DK

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Posted July 22 2014 - 11:48 PM

Never have, never will. I will watch Star Wars again when the OOT comes out in HD, not before. So basically never.

 

You know, there are... ways of watching the untouched OT in HD. Harmy has done a stellar job.



#806 of 1552 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted July 23 2014 - 06:13 AM

Will you settle for an HD transfer of each of the original trilogy movies as a bonus feature on a Blu-ray release?   I do think you may get that in a couple of years.  Will that be enough, or do you need to see an entire release based solely on the original cuts?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'd definitely settle for a good HD transfer of the OOT. I've seen more than enough SW special features to last me a lifetime. Right now, a good quality HD transfer of the OOT, as a barebones release or as a supplement to the SuperLucasized Extra Special Super Duper This Is Really The Final Final Version Edition would suffice (I'd use that version as coasters).


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#807 of 1552 OFFLINE   hanshotfirst1138

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Posted July 23 2014 - 09:05 AM

Will you settle for an HD transfer of each of the original trilogy movies as a bonus feature on a Blu-ray release?   I do think you may get that in a couple of years.  Will that be enough, or do you need to see an entire release based solely on the original cuts?

 

I depends on what you're asking. If it's a BS excuse like the non-anamorphic crap we go last time, then no. If there's a giant boxed set and the OOT is only available in it? If they are 100% remasters and no one has messed up the color-timing, the FX, or anything else, and they are properly remastered and restored? Then yes, I'll pay damn near any price.

 

You know, there are... ways of watching the untouched OT in HD. Harmy has done a stellar job.

 

I've heard about it, but I do always worry a little about owning them because of the legal grey areas where fan edits reside.

 

 

"But I'm still hoping that someone will ask the Lucasfilm reps that question in a direct fashion."

At the very least they could shoot the rumors down. I hope guys like Bill Hunt can do some digging. :)

 

I've learned to take what Hunt says with a grain of salt at this point.

 

I would think the earliest and most appropriate time for a re-release of the original trilogy with fresh new 4K scans would be 2017.

 

I cannot see them passing on the 40th anniversary, something good will happen around about then, it would take three years just to get everything perfect from the old CGI effects to the lightsaber consistency and all the versions of each film.

 

Unless of course they go cheap, very possible, in which case they will be out next year.

 

But even if they do, that's so far away :(.

 

It's all to grope about in the dark as nobody knows nothing ;)

 

Like I said, rampant speculation about this has been going around like an infection ever since the Disney buyout, but I don't think anyone has heard anything officially or unofficially besides fans with our fingers crossed.

 

As far as True Lies and The Abyss, rumors about those have been flying for years too. But now, I'm afraid the even if they do get released, we'll have to deal with another James Cameron teal wash :(. On that subject, how about a 40th anniversary version of The Terminator with the damn mono this time?

 

 

It's an HD master of the Lowry Digital restoration done for the 2003 DVD. It's the same color timing as the DVD with more resolution. The only difference is that it had a revised version of the shot of the jeep going over the cliff using digital effects. I have only seen it broadcast at 720p, but imagine there is a 1080p version. This used to be shown regularly in the US, but the most recent HD broadcasts I have seen used the blu master instead. I had it on my DVR for a long time, but finally deleted it for space, which I now regret.

 

See the revised jeep shot here (not my video, but it caused some controversy). I thought it

 

That Indy one is exquisite!!

Pity the Bluray isn't like that..

 

fine but I prefer the original:

 

 

My assumption was the that was for a Lucas-type SE at one point, but Spielberg wisely changed his mind. What does the Blu-Ray look like? What's different? Can I get a quick rundown of the controversy?

 

 The IMAX version definitely had the revised color scheme, but I haven't seen the DCP.

Isn't the DCP struck from the same master as the IMAX version? I had a chance to see the IMAX version at a cinema practically within walking distance, and didn't. I've never forgiven myself. Though I did get to see Close Encounters of The Third Kind in 35mm last night :D.

 

It seems like this happens with every single movie.

 

It gets remastered and some people don't like the color timing or contrast because it's not the way they remembered it or because it looks different than the previous laser disc or DVD.

 

The problem is memories are faulty and as Robert Harris has pointed out before, there were all sorts of issues with movie transferring prior to HD.

 

Maybe, but when a film has had specific aesthetic on home video and 35mm prints for years and get changed decades later, I get skeptical. In the case of Raiders, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's much like what happened with LOTF: FOTR and someone doing the mastering just messed up and the studio didn't want to do a recall and rerelese.


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#808 of 1552 OFFLINE   Worth

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Posted July 23 2014 - 10:08 AM

Isn't the DCP struck from the same master as the IMAX version?

 

No. The IMAX release was a one-off, though it may well re-appear at some point. It has the smoothed-over look that many uprezzed-to-IMAX films have. The DCP that's currently making the rounds looks much different, and much better, than the IMAX release.


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#809 of 1552 ONLINE   andySu

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Posted July 24 2014 - 06:26 AM

Greedo would have been rubbish at poker, he talked too much and gave his hand away. ;)

 

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#810 of 1552 OFFLINE   Kevin EK

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Posted July 24 2014 - 11:25 AM

Mike, when you say "properly remastered and restored", are you saying that you will only accept HD copies of the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy if they've had extensive restoration work?

 

My understanding of how this will likely play out is that Lucasfilm could have HD transfers done of the best materials they have of the original versions, and then take a couple of days to check the color timing, etc..   And that would be it.  These would be HD transfers, so they wouldn't be the little non-anamorphic treatments we saw on the 2006 releases.  Not sure what they'd do about the sound - it could well just be the same 2.0 sound that was provided before.  These could be released either as part of single movie Blu-ray releases in 2016, or perhaps as part of a new 6-movie set.  But they already did a big set of the 6 movies as well as 3-movie sets of each trilogy.   I agree that they could try to provide another uber-set, this time with the earlier cuts, but it feels more likely that they'd try to price point the individual releases so they'd make more money that way.

 

But are you saying that you will avoid these versions if you don't hear about a major restoration project on them?



#811 of 1552 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted July 24 2014 - 12:53 PM

I'm not speaking for Mike, but I'd be ok with what you've described right there, Kevin. I know the time for a true "film restoration" of it has passed, at least for now. What would be a nice "bonus step" would be if they did a bit of the "digital cleanup" that Criterion tends to do for their titles in lieu of a true restoration.That would be nice, but again I'd be fine with what you have described.


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#812 of 1552 OFFLINE   JColl

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Posted July 24 2014 - 01:35 PM

My understanding of how this will likely play out is that Lucasfilm could have HD transfers done of the best materials they have of the original versions?


That would be awesome actually. Considering the many criterions (and the theatrical Blade Runner) that are done that way, perfectly reasonable all around.

#813 of 1552 OFFLINE   Kevin EK

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Posted July 24 2014 - 07:29 PM

For Mark Booth:

 

I'm really hoping the guys from Lucasfilm will give you direct answers to the questions the fans are asking here.   The trick is not to let them just say "Oh, I'm sure there's more you'll see on Blu-ray and home video with these movies!"   That will be a standard answer, as would be "You'll just have to wait and see..."   The hope is that they can be asked specifically about whether 4K restorations are currently being done by Reliance of the original theatrical versions of the original trilogy.   If there's confusion about this from the guys there (and I'm betting there will be), it would be a matter of bringing up the website on one's smart phone or tablet and showing them what Reliance is saying they're doing.   If the response is still confusion, then we'll have a strong idea that this is what it looks like.   But maybe the guys will actually say something more.  We won't know until they're asked.   And by the way, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to try to find out about this.



#814 of 1552 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted July 25 2014 - 04:39 PM

I depends on what you're asking. If it's a BS excuse like the non-anamorphic crap we go last time, then no. If there's a giant boxed set and the OOT is only available in it? If they are 100% remasters and no one has messed up the color-timing, the FX, or anything else, and they are properly remastered and restored? Then yes, I'll pay damn near any price.

 

 

I've heard about it, but I do always worry a little about owning them because of the legal grey areas where fan edits reside.

 

 

 

I've learned to take what Hunt says with a grain of salt at this point.

 

 

But even if they do, that's so far away :(.

 

 

Like I said, rampant speculation about this has been going around like an infection ever since the Disney buyout, but I don't think anyone has heard anything officially or unofficially besides fans with our fingers crossed.

 

As far as True Lies and The Abyss, rumors about those have been flying for years too. But now, I'm afraid the even if they do get released, we'll have to deal with another James Cameron teal wash :(. On that subject, how about a 40th anniversary version of The Terminator with the damn mono this time?

 

 

 

My assumption was the that was for a Lucas-type SE at one point, but Spielberg wisely changed his mind. What does the Blu-Ray look like? What's different? Can I get a quick rundown of the controversy?

 

Isn't the DCP struck from the same master as the IMAX version? I had a chance to see the IMAX version at a cinema practically within walking distance, and didn't. I've never forgiven myself. Though I did get to see Close Encounters of The Third Kind in 35mm last night :D.

 

 

Maybe, but when a film has had specific aesthetic on home video and 35mm prints for years and get changed decades later, I get skeptical. In the case of Raiders, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's much like what happened with LOTF: FOTR and someone doing the mastering just messed up and the studio didn't want to do a recall and rerelese.

 

Seeing Close Encounters in 35mm would be very cool!  I plan on watching the Blu on my new front projector soon.

 

I am skeptical of past non-HD releases.  As Robert Harris and others in the industry have discussed, there were A LOT of issues involved in the NTSC mastering process and chain for VHS, LD, and DVD.  I have the original VHS of Raiders of the Lost Ark and it looks much different than the DVD - both of which looks different from the Blu.  I don't believe any mastering of Raiders was truly done right until it was done for Blu-ray.  And subjectively, the colors on the Blu look far more accurate and film-like to me than the DVD - and my JVC front projector is pro calibrated.  The Blu was sourced from the original negative and looks gorgeous on my set-up.  Not much can be said for other previous home versions.



#815 of 1552 OFFLINE   Dr Griffin

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Posted July 25 2014 - 05:47 PM

http://www.afi.com/s...ents.aspx#close

 

Seeing Close Encounters in 35mm would be very cool!  I plan on watching the Blu on my new front projector soon.

 

I am skeptical of past non-HD releases.  As Robert Harris and others in the industry have discussed, there were A LOT of issues involved in the NTSC mastering process and chain for VHS, LD, and DVD.  I have the original VHS of Raiders of the Lost Ark and it looks much different than the DVD - both of which looks different from the Blu.  I don't believe any mastering of Raiders was truly done right until it was done for Blu-ray.  And subjectively, the colors on the Blu look far more accurate and film-like to me than the DVD - and my JVC front projector is pro calibrated.  The Blu was sourced from the original negative and looks gorgeous on my set-up.  Not much can be said for other previous home versions.

 

Not sure of your location, but The AFI Silver Theater outside DC is showing Close Encounters in 35mm on August 9th and 10th.

 

http://www.afi.com/s...ents.aspx#close


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#816 of 1552 OFFLINE   Kevin EK

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Posted July 27 2014 - 12:30 AM

I've noted that the Lucasfilm people have been presenting materials on their animated TV shows, as we anticipated.  I've also noticed that the RMW USA website no longer has the Star Wars 4K entry on its projects page.

 

Has anyone been able to take the time to ask the Lucasfilm people at Comic Con about this?   It's looking like that may not have been a proper listing.



#817 of 1552 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 27 2014 - 09:00 AM

I've noted that the Lucasfilm people have been presenting materials on their animated TV shows, as we anticipated.  I've also noticed that the RMW USA website no longer has the Star Wars 4K entry on its projects page.

 

Has anyone been able to take the time to ask the Lucasfilm people at Comic Con about this?   It's looking like that may not have been a proper listing.

 

Maybe it's supposed to be top secret work and they removed it because it's three years from planned release date.


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#818 of 1552 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted July 27 2014 - 09:02 AM

I think that they removed it from their site is the weirdest thing of all. If it wasn't secret, why take it down? If it was secret, why did anyone in a position of authority in the company think it would be cool to put it up in the first place?


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#819 of 1552 OFFLINE   Konstantinos

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Posted July 27 2014 - 09:08 AM

I think that they removed it from their site is the weirdest thing of all. If it wasn't secret, why take it down? If it was secret, why did anyone in a position of authority in the company think it would be cool to put it up in the first place?

Oh they did?

I didn't know.

Maybe they removed it because they read all the reactions and speculations, and didn't want to cause all this false alarm..



#820 of 1552 OFFLINE   AshJW

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Posted July 27 2014 - 10:27 AM

Maybe they removed it because they read all the reactions and speculations, and didn't want to cause all this false alarm..

too late ;)


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