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Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray?

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#21 of 1643 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted July 21 2013 - 09:06 AM

Fox has distribution rights to Episode IV for good, and for Episodes V and VI until 2020. Lucasfilm own the actual films themselves, and all decisions relating to their release lie with them. If Lucasfilm (or their new Disney masters) want to release the original original trilogy, they will do, and Fox will distribute them like they did the last few times. I very much doubt they could even refuse (not that they'd want to).

 

Fingers crossed original elements have been preserved well. Personally, a new Blu-ray release would only interest me if new scans/transfers were done of said elements, with proper colour correction and the original soundtracks. If you're going to release the unaltered Star Wars Trilogy, you get one shot and it better be done right. The fans have gone through way too much of Lucas' bulls*** to settle for something like the 2011 Blu-rays with the original footage, poorly sourced, reinserted (no doubt with a myriad of "mistakes" were proper corrections haven't been done).



#22 of 1643 OFFLINE   Stephen Brooks

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Posted July 21 2013 - 09:34 AM

This should be done as a 2 part project. Pull all the best existing film elements out of the vaults, scan them in at least 4K, and have Reliance Media/Lowry Digital clean everything up using their latest tools. Then give the restored files over to 2 teams. The first will be in charge of reassembling the original theatrical versions. The second team, supervised by George Lucas, will created final Ultimate Editions of each movie, with whatever changes and VFX updates they want to make, and 3D conversions. Everyone wins. Sent from my SCH-S738C using HTF mobile app
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#23 of 1643 OFFLINE   Lord Dalek

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Posted July 21 2013 - 10:39 AM

Fox has distribution rights to Episode IV for good, and for Episodes V and VI until 2020. Lucasfilm own the actual films themselves, and all decisions relating to their release lie with them. If Lucasfilm (or their new Disney masters) want to release the original original trilogy, they will do, and Fox will distribute them like they did the last few times. I very much doubt they could even refuse (not that they'd want to).

 

I suspect some sort of exchange was made over international rights and getting the Fox logo on VII.



#24 of 1643 OFFLINE   Todd Erwin

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:00 AM

We may see something similar to the deal Disney made with Paramount over the Marvel Avengers series of movies, where Disney now handles distribution but the Paramount logo along with the Marvel logo bookends the films (even though Paramount has nothing to do with any future Marvel Avengers films).



#25 of 1643 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:14 AM

Mark this date in your calendar, 2017.  2017 is the anniversary date, a special 50th one and i expect to see not only the original unaltered editions out on blu ray but maybe even in 4k, i also expect a new and improved Phantom Menace without the grain reduction and probably 3D conversions of all the films, 2017 is the year Star Wars gets milked to death and many new toys are sold, i expect a new movie out that year too.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

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#26 of 1643 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:22 AM

i also expect a new and improved Phantom Menace

 

That's a bit hard hearing "new," "improved" and

"The Phantom Menace" in the same sentence. Wish those three films never existed in the Star

Wars universe.


 

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#27 of 1643 OFFLINE   HDvision

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:31 AM

We already had the new improved Phantom Menace in 3D, with a conversion so good it gave James Cameron Titanic 3D a run for his money.



#28 of 1643 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:31 AM

That's a bit hard hearing "new," "improved" and

"The Phantom Menace" in the same sentence. Wish those three films never existed in the Star

Wars universe.

 

I enjoyed them, that magnificent three way fight scene at the end of Phantom all set to Duel Of The Fates, fantastic, loved it, for me the best of the prequels was Attack Of The Clones, once again a great music score and yes i even enjoyed the love story, the dialogue was meant to be like that, the dialogue reminded me of old style forties flicks, very intentional, yep i truly enjoyed the prequels.

 

Not interested in 3D conversions, shoot native or don't bother, improved is an overused word, degraining a 35mm shot film and removing detail and then converting to 3D and everything is smooth as a baby's bottom, nah, i don't call that an improvement, not by a country mile, i want the original 35mm shot version with the film grain left in, the funny thing is they shot part 3 using new and improved digital cameras and added film grain to make it look more film like and that is left in the blu ray edition but they remove it from the Phantom Menace to make it look more digital, that's just crazy and does not make any sense to me.

 

The only thing i can think of is they used the degrained film print/master ( the one to be used on the 3D conversion ) of Phantom Menace for the blu ray and didn't want to pony up for a new film scan, it doesn't make sense that they add film grain to the digitally shot one but remove from the 35mm shot one.


Edited by FoxyMulder, July 21 2013 - 11:37 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#29 of 1643 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:42 AM

That's a bit hard hearing "new," "improved" and

"The Phantom Menace" in the same sentence. Wish those three films never existed in the Star

Wars universe.

Ha ha.  I'm not the biggest fan of the prequels either, but I watched episode 1 just the other night babysitting my niece(8 years old) and she absolutely loved it, and that upped my enjoyment of the film 100%.  My three nephews are all hooked on the prequels also.  I have heard the OT being quoted as "boring" from all of them. Different generation for sure, but liking Star Wars in any capacity is never a bad thing. 


housekeeping 2.jpg

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#30 of 1643 OFFLINE   Paul_Warren

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:48 AM

If this did happen unless they spent significant money on the transfer it would be a massive letdown in 1080P. ANH has colour issues where they used a different film stock which faded from scene to scene. Dig out your old LD/VHS look closely at the parts on Tatooine specifically around the dusk canyon scenes with R2D2 & C3PO hiding from the Jawa the red colour on the canyon walls keeps changing tone & almost breaking up the picture in large areas onscreen. This is more noticeable on a 60" plus display but its there. I think they replaced the film stock after shooting some of those scenes but the damage was done on the original footage already. The red colour pulses a lot in several scenes. Look close enough its there!

 

IMO Lucasfilm were not prepared to spend the $$$ to do the OT justice on Bluray (ROTJ has a very noticeble red line down one side of the screen at the end & ANH has a highly visible green line I detailed here back in 2011: http://www.hometheat...-4#entry3740537).



#31 of 1643 OFFLINE   Mark-P

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Posted July 21 2013 - 11:50 AM

Mark this date in your calendar, 2017.  2017 is the anniversary date, a special 50th one and i expect to see not only the original unaltered editions out on blu ray but maybe even in 4k, i also expect a new and improved Phantom Menace without the grain reduction and probably 3D conversions of all the films, 2017 is the year Star Wars gets milked to death and many new toys are sold, i expect a new movie out that year too.

50th anniversary? What happened in 1967 that has to do with Star Wars?



#32 of 1643 OFFLINE   Mark Walker

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Posted July 21 2013 - 12:14 PM

I was going to say, I will not be 50 in 2017 and I was alive when Star Wars IV was first released.  :)


Paramount, please release DRAGONSLAYER on Blu-ray

Dragonslayer_1981HTF_zps4e370848.jpg

 

 

Vermithrax Pejorative deserves to be seen in high-def.


#33 of 1643 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 21 2013 - 12:20 PM

50th anniversary? What happened in 1967 that has to do with Star Wars?

 

I'm going back to school to learn to add up. :D


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#34 of 1643 OFFLINE   EddieLarkin

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Posted July 21 2013 - 12:55 PM

and yes i even enjoyed the love story, the dialogue was meant to be like that, the dialogue reminded me of old style forties flicks, very intentional

:blink:



#35 of 1643 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted July 21 2013 - 01:00 PM

This should be done as a 2 part project. Pull all the best existing film elements out of the vaults, scan them in at least 4K, and have Reliance Media/Lowry Digital clean everything up using their latest tools. Then give the restored files over to 2 teams. The first will be in charge of reassembling the original theatrical versions. The second team, supervised by George Lucas, will created final Ultimate Editions of each movie, with whatever changes and VFX updates they want to make, and 3D conversions. Everyone wins.Sent from my SCH-S738C using HTF mobile app

 

I would prefer Reliance Media/Lowry Digital does NOT handle these films.  They botched these back in 2004 when the masters were first completed at 1080p.  They also have a long history of less than optimal discs.

 

I don't care for their processing of de-graining films and then re-inserting 'film grain'.  This process has caused more artifacts that one could count and lacks authenticity in my opinion.

 

I would rather see a company like Laser Pacific who has done a stellar job on Spielberg movies including Raiders of the Lost Ark.


Edited by Dave H, July 21 2013 - 01:02 PM.


#36 of 1643 OFFLINE   Stephen Brooks

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Posted July 21 2013 - 01:16 PM

I would bet a large number of Republic credits that the masters of the prequels that were created for the Blu-rays, and used for subsequent 3D conversion (they had to have been well into the process on II & III when the plug was pulled on the theatrical releases) are pretty much the final word on those movies. Those movies are always going to represent the infancy of digital filmmaking. The 1080p image we see on the BDs is more or less what ILM saw on their monitors while they worked on the movies. The degraining of Phantom Menace was a very deliberate decision to get it to look more like the other digitally-shot prequels. I seriously doubt a "Now With Film Grain!" edition is in the cards. You COULD go back and rescan the film footage in 4K, but you'd basically just have a bunch of people standing around greenscreen. There is literally only 1 shot in the entire movie without CGI. Nobody is going to take the time and expense to basically remake the movie just so it looks slightly sharper on 4K displays that hardly anyone has. AOTC and ROTS were shot in 1080p and that's how they're stuck. The originals are a different story altogether......shot entirely on film, there's no reason they can't look a lot better than they currently do, whether it's the originals or a new Special Edition using a state-of-the-art restoration as a starting point. Sent from my SCH-S738C using HTF mobile app
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#37 of 1643 OFFLINE   Stephen Brooks

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Posted July 21 2013 - 01:21 PM

I would prefer Reliance Media/Lowry Digital does NOT handle these films. They botched these back in 2004 when the masters were first completed at 1080p. They also have a long history of less than optimal discs.

I don't care for their processing of de-graining films and then re-inserting 'film grain'. This process has caused more artifacts that one could count and lacks authenticity in my opinion.

I would rather see a company like Laser Pacific who has done a stellar job on Spielberg movies including Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Disney has a long ongoing relationship with Reliance, so it's quite likely that that's who they'll use. Their process has improved considerably since 2004 (when they were also subjected to Lucasfilm's ridiculously rushed schedule of 1 month per film, forcing them to rely much more on automated software than they would've like). If we get Star Wars looking as good as Alien or the new Terminator BD, I'll be happy.

The biggest factor will be simply taking the time to do it right. Don't start the project with a specific release date that HAS to be made. Take however the hell long it takes to do it right.

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#38 of 1643 OFFLINE   FoxyMulder

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Posted July 21 2013 - 01:23 PM

I would bet a large number of Republic credits that the masters of the prequels that were created for the Blu-rays, and used for subsequent 3D conversion (they had to have been well into the process on II & III when the plug was pulled on the theatrical releases) are pretty much the final word on those movies. Those movies are always going to represent the infancy of digital filmmaking. The 1080p image we see on the BDs is more or less what ILM saw on their monitors while they worked on the movies. The degraining of Phantom Menace was a very deliberate decision to get it to look more like the other digitally-shot prequels. I seriously doubt a "Now With Film Grain!" edition is in the cards. You COULD go back and rescan the film footage in 4K, but you'd basically just have a bunch of people standing around greenscreen. There is literally only 1 shot in the entire movie without CGI. Nobody is going to take the time and expense to basically remake the movie just so it looks slightly sharper on 4K displays that hardly anyone has. AOTC and ROTS were shot in 1080p and that's how they're stuck.The originals are a different story altogether......shot entirely on film, there's no reason they can't look a lot better than they currently do, whether it's the originals or a new Special Edition using a state-of-the-art restoration as a starting point.Sent from my SCH-S738C using HTF mobile app

 

Yes but the whole point is that for Episode 3 they added film grain to make it look more film like and less digital, for the Phantom Menace they degrained to make it look more digital and less film like, i don't get the logic, surely if they wanted smoother and a digital look then they wouldn't have bothered adding in film grain for part 3, no for me i think Phanton Menace looks the way it does because they used a master intended for the 3D conversion, nothing else makes sense and when 4K monitors are all the rage they will redo all of them and upscale the digital shot last 2 films.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#39 of 1643 OFFLINE   Ejanss

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Posted July 21 2013 - 02:31 PM

And I know we're all having technical Monday-morning-quarterback fun with how Disney and Lucas should remaster them, and when to release them in time for this or that anniversary, with this or those extras, IF the originals still existed, like undated out-of-context quotes told us they must.

 

But, y'see, like Lt. Columbo always said--who also found the key clue in odd behavior on the suspect's part--there's just that one little question in the back of my head I keep coming back to, because no matter what I do, I can't get my mind around it:

Is it all just a HOAX?  Is it all just an elaborately planned ruse on Lucas's part, to lead us off the scent, and "greedily" make us buy inferior in-between double-dip editions while never, hee-hee, suspecting for a second that the pristine premium 4K UOT editions are just around the corner?

Because if acting twitchy, guilty, hyperdefensive, combative toward the fans, and changing the subject every time anyone brings up changes to the '97 and '04 editions is all really a performance....bravo, George:  Your sublimely deceptive "I have no regrets, honest!" is BEYOND OSCAR-WORTHY.  The sensitively realized red-herring depiction of an overly  autocratic director-producer who now fears he may have made one too many self-indulgent decisions in his past and now retreats from the public eye aware that he has no ability to atone for them anymore, goes far beyond Orson Welles in Citizen Kane--The strategically fictional character created in public has me convinced beyond the proverbial shadow of a freakin' doubt.  And I flatter myself that I'm rather hard to fool.

 

(And they say he never could understand actors...) 



#40 of 1643 OFFLINE   Adam_S

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Posted July 21 2013 - 03:47 PM

Gee, could that reliable source be George Lucas? Who has said, many times, that archival 35mm interpositives are in the Lucasfilm Vaults? Something confirmed by RIck McCallum, and Ron Howard, who actually asked to see them?

 

GL has stated that the 35mm elements need "a lot of work". My guess is that work may very well be ongoing or already done.

 

Also, the original negatives WERE re-conformed (not destroyed) to the 1997 SEs. Any Blus made from those would BE the 1997 SEs. GL himself admitted to that.

 

I suspect if they are coming, we won't see them untill the new movies comes out on video. Or, possibly, not untill 2017 which is the 40th anniversary.

iirc, robert harris said on this forum a few years ago that the original cut negative was not changed. a new duplicate negative was what all the work was done on prep star wars for the restoration and insertion of new footage to create the special editions.


 





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