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Anoyone ever heard of a phono amp interfering with HDMI inputs?


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#1 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 09:18 AM

Hey all - strange thing I've got happening.  I just bought a refurb Marantz 6007 and it sounds great.. BUT:  A couple of days ago I noticed that when nothing was playing on one of my HDMI inputs ( in this case media player ) I was getting this strange static / white noise coming from my speakers.  Not overwhelming but enough to notice.  I unplugged the hdmi from said input,  and indeed everything else but the speaker connections from the back of my AVR,  still getting the noise.  I switched to another HDMI input ( blu ray ) and that seemed to solve the problem.  I was a little concerned but figured it wasn't the end of the world.    Yesterday I noticed that it started to happen with the Blue ray HDMI input - again whether or not anything was plugged into it.   I called Marantz and they said it COULD be a DSP hardware problem,  try resetting the processor.  I did,  and low and behold the fuzz was gone.  As I've only got a couple days grace before I can send this back to the dealer I did some further trouble shooting.  The only variable was trying to play a record over the last couple of days.   I plugged in the phono analog inputs,  played a record,  turned it off,  went back to my HDMI selection - and BOOM - the fuzz was back.  Seems like for some reason the HDMI input picks up distortion from the phono amp every time I try to use it,  and won't go away even after I've unplugged the turntable.  Weird.  I'm trying to send it back.  Anyone have any ideas? other then it's just bricked? ( more for out of curiosity,  I'm not taking chances with this problem )


Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 09:18 AM.

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#2 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 09:23 AM

Ground loop.

Have fun with that. It has nothing to do with the Marantz. Whatever you added last is the culprit.

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 10:14 AM

Ground loop.

Have fun with that. It has nothing to do with the Marantz. Whatever you added last is the culprit.

But when I unplug the record player completely - ground inputs everything,  it still happens - I mean to say that the fuzz continues on the hdmi input that I've got set up,  even after I've completely disconnected the record player,  where as it wasn't there before,  Do ground loops throw dsp's out of whack so that you have to reset microprocessors to get them back to normal?


Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 10:37 AM.

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#4 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 11:14 AM

A ground loop is an audible ground fault of 60hz. So, yes.

 

It is possible that you bought an MM and needed MC...or have MC needed MM???

 

I once had a ground loop cause I wanted HDMI to the AVR and component/analog to the TV(to watch news/DirecTV sans AVR)...the component/analog caused a ground loop.



#5 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 12:59 PM

What's mm and mc short for?

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#6 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 01:03 PM

http://www.zenn.com...._cartridges.htm



#7 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 01:20 PM

http://www.zenn.com...._cartridges.htm


Thanks for the link and info, but I actually just finished getting a complete turntable overhaul and tune up from a reputable audio shop yesterday... So that's not it.

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#8 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 01:23 PM

Thanks for the link and info, but I actually just finished getting a complete turntable overhaul and tune up from a reputable audio shop yesterday... So that's not it.

What does that have to do with possibly having the wrong phono pre-amp?

 

Or, did you buy them from the same place and/or this "overhaul place" knows you have the pre-amp and not an AVR/receiver/pre-amp with the correct MM or MC...

 

But, you didn't know what MM or MC was. So if you didn't know...did the "overhaul place" know(what you had it connected to and via what)?



#9 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 01:46 PM

Well it was bay blood radio, which is one of the more respected shops in Toronto, but although I might have mentioned the receiver I had, I didn't explain any problems I was having, beyond it doeant sound so hot ( the turntable ). As it was just today after resetting the microprocessor, then replugging the phono inputs, that I was able to re create the unusual static I was hearing from the hdmi inputs. So no, they have no idea I don't think. I'll re read your article,.

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#10 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 01:55 PM

What does that have to do with possibly having the wrong phono pre-amp?

Or, did you buy them from the same place and/or this "overhaul place" knows you have the pre-amp and not an AVR/receiver/pre-amp with the correct MM or MC...

But, you didn't know what MM or MC was. So if you didn't know...did the "overhaul place" know(what you had it connected to and via what)?

Well I've re read the article, and though I admittedly don't know what type of cartridge is on there, the person at the shop just plugged it into an old amp and it sounde good. I doubt my Dad would have used a pre amp for the more expensive cartridge type, never mind spent 1000 dollars on one. I also would think the tech, a vinyl guru as he's known there, would have neglected to mention to me that I had a special cartridge, during the hour I spent with him in his shop, while he meticulously took it apart and explained the minutiae of every operation of it ( he knew I was a rookie )

Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 02:00 PM.

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#11 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 02:17 PM

So, after this lesson, do you have the correct pre-amp? (I'm assuming you bought the pre-amp. MC and MM exist at all price points)

 

 

I'm just trying to get to the root here. I have a Technics SL-Q350 connected to an Onkyo NR1008 and Sota with a Grado MM connected to an Integra DTR 7.8.

 

Anyway, it is possible the pre-amp is the problem. The Technics needed a new ground wire once when it became corroded on the turntable end. The noise(which built over months) finally subsided when I took it in for a tune up and the guy goes "I replaced the ground wire, your hum should be gone"...(I didn't even mention there being a hum in the system)



#12 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 02:47 PM

So, after this lesson, do you have the correct pre-amp? (I'm assuming you bought the pre-amp. MC and MM exist at all price points)


I'm just trying to get to the root here. I have a Technics SL-Q350 connected to an Onkyo NR1008 and Sota with a Grado MM connected to an Integra DTR 7.8.

Anyway, it is possible the pre-amp is the problem. The Technics needed a new ground wire once when it became corroded on the turntable end. The noise(which built over months) finally subsided when I took it in for a tune up and the guy goes "I replaced the ground wire, your hum should be gone"...(I didn't even mention there being a hum in the system)

Well I've just got the phono amp built into the receiver, its the Sr6007 combined with a dual 606 cs
turntable... I'm at work so beyond that can't look at it. I don't have a seperate phono amp as the avr phono input is already amplified.

Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 02:48 PM.

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#13 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 19 2013 - 02:59 PM

Well, if I read into that correctly...

 

Turntable is already amped?

 

Connect it anywhere...not the turntable input...see if that works.



#14 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 03:31 PM

Well, if I read into that correctly...

Turntable is already amped?

Connect it anywhere...not the turntable input...see if that works.

no the turntable is not amped, its amplified at the receiver by The receiver.. another thought,, could my actual RCA extentions I'm using short the hdmi board out if its of poor quality or not shielded? I'm just using some cheap extention cable, looks more like low gauge speaker wire with the plastic coating, Ttached to RCA plugs then regular RCA cable. I've bought some Kew ones ill try when I get home if for nothing else then to rule that out.

Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 05:55 PM.

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#15 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 19 2013 - 10:33 PM

no the turntable is not amped, its amplified at the receiver by The receiver.. another thought,, could my actual RCA extentions I'm using short the hdmi board out if its of poor quality or not shielded? I'm just using some cheap extention cable, looks more like low gauge speaker wire with the plastic coating, Ttached to RCA plugs then regular RCA cable. I've bought some Kew ones ill try when I get home if for nothing else then to rule that out.

Update - this AVR is messed up.   I changed the cord,  did a micro processor reset - and actually got it for a short time to work distortion free on BOTH my phono and HDMI inputs.  For some strange reason though,  it was giving me an option of having DSX WIDE speakers to choose from under the phono setting.  I don't have wide speakers,  they are surround back speakers.   I got into setup to make sure I had them assigned to surround back,  and while I was there remembered I didn't run the setup assistant as I just reloaded my saved auddessey settings after the micro processor reset.  In any case as soon as I ran through the setup assistant and told the AVR what I had,  the crackle came back - on phono - then on my hdmi inputs.  So I reset the processor again,  and AGAIN,  and couldn't get it to recreate the brief period of success ( although with settings that didn't exist ) .. I finally gave up and thought the hell with the record player for now,  I'd have to buy another one ( without a ground ) to be able to compare and see if it was the turntable doing it.  Unfortunately,  now I can't get rid of that static over HDMI,  Even without the phono being plugged in,   ( ground or inputs ) - and even AFTER doing a micro processor reset.  It's just there - mind you only with the volume turned up loud.   I really can't see it being a fault of anything but the AVR itself at this point.  Hopefully the dealer will call me back soon ( I have a five day grace period from delivery of item,  I got it on Monday - and reported the first sings of trouble on thursday night ). 

 

 

t


Edited by sean1976, July 19 2013 - 10:35 PM.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of Wolves " -

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#16 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 21 2013 - 12:18 AM

Well I've been searching some forums and it seems the above hiss is actually an issue on the 007 line of receivers.  I just finished talking to a guy who went through the same thing,  and never could get it to right itself,  and just lives with it.  "I purchased this receiver last weekend and it sounds excellent! But I encountered a problem. The receiver keeps making noise through my speakers at every volume level and on every input. If I keep my ears to my speakers (all 5), I can hear a slight noise. This noise also occurs when the volume is down to zero. This noise doesn't get louder when I raise the volume.
 I had it tested today at my dealer, and they had the same issue."  ...

There also seems to be several people with the 7007's that had the same issue,  and the above poster got back to me and said he demoed several that were picking up floor noise.  I'm returning mine for an exchange anyways,  but am pretty dubious at this point it will make any difference whatsoever.  Too bad my dealer doesn't have the new 008 series,  sounds like it might be worth upgrading.  Oh well! 


"A nation of sheep will beget a government of Wolves " -

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#17 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 21 2013 - 05:22 AM

Funny, I never heard a Denon 2313 hiss.

Same basic receiver. All the Marantz is(beyond a few menu features) is a 2313.

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 21 2013 - 06:23 AM

Looking at the backs,  it seems the sr6007 has loads more connectivity options - some of the circuitry must be different.  According to this article http://www.audioholi...6007-sr5007-pre  it's the 3313 and sr7007 that share the most in common.  

Marantz sr6007 vs Denon 2313ci:

 

sr6007.jpg

2313.jpg

 

Perhaps it's some of that extra circuitry doing it?  Whatever the case - it unfortunately seems to be a minor bug with the Marantz.  I guess I'll find out this week more definitively when I get the exchange product this week.   And obviously I'm going to set it up and audition it before it comes NEAR my turntable just to see :)


Edited by sean1976, July 21 2013 - 06:40 AM.

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#19 of 22 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted July 21 2013 - 06:49 AM

I know there are differences between the 6007/2313.

But, look at an Onkyo 5010 and an Integra 80.3.

Do they look the same on the back either? Their "guts" are the same.

But the Integra gives you separate subwoofer control (for real .2...instead of .1 x 2)
More options of 12v configuration.

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   sean1976

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Posted July 21 2013 - 07:35 AM

I know there are differences between the 6007/2313.

But, look at an Onkyo 5010 and an Integra 80.3.

Do they look the same on the back either? Their "guts" are the same.

But the Integra gives you separate subwoofer control (for real .2...instead of .1 x 2)
More options of 12v configuration.

Well in any case I guess I'll find out in the next few days what the results of my exchange are.  I DID offer him an extra 300 on top of the money I spent to try to pry away an x-4000 he has for sale .. if not though I'll report back.  For what it's worth,  here's a link to the distortion I'm getting from the speakers:  http://vocaroo.com/i/s1vvtbxP9b6A


Edited by sean1976, July 21 2013 - 08:26 AM.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of Wolves " -

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