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1776 playing in Santa Monica tomorrow

Sony Pictures

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#101 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 07 2013 - 07:31 PM

Well John you don't have the right to speak as the arbiter of taste on the value of the Overture/Intermission as you presumed to do with your bewilderment that "anyone" could have a contrary opinion to your own on the subject.   So I suggest you learn to practice what you preach.    Your post helped change my attitude from "maybe I'll get it for archival reasons" to no sale.


Edited by Jack P, July 07 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#102 of 131 Mike Frezon

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Posted July 07 2013 - 09:14 PM

All right, everyone.

 

Let's just take a deep breath now.

 

We all are passionate about this film.  And we can passionately disagree.  But let's keep the discussions about the film and not about the people making posts about the film. 

 

And, let's keep in mind that this is a release that is still a ways from being fully realized.


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#103 of 131 Ethan Riley

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Posted July 07 2013 - 09:38 PM

Blythe Danner is way hotter than Betty Buckley.


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#104 of 131 ahollis

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Posted July 07 2013 - 09:58 PM

I believe in a an issue of Perfect Vision Magazine Joe Caps stated that he included the overture, Intermission and Entr'acte in 1776 laserdisc and that it was never intended for the theatrical release. He said he used stems to create the overture. While I think it was enjoyable this is certainly not an issue to get hot about. This is just my opinion I will welcome any Blu-ray that Sony and Mr. Hunt release. And yes Miss Danner is hot, especially in Philadelphia.

Edited by ahollis, July 07 2013 - 10:30 PM.

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#105 of 131 haineshisway

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Posted July 07 2013 - 10:16 PM

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If it doesn't restore the LD cut as I have experienced it every year and in every viewing for the last 22 years (as I did again on July 4) it isn't a "kitchen sink" version I'd watch more than once as a curiosity.

 

I have come to enjoy the Overture/Entr'acte as something that elevates the film to the last of the great roadshow style musicals in my viewing experience and it also provided a much needed natural break point in my recent viewing with family.     If  Hunt is truly of the belief that a "kitchen sink" version should be for the home, he shouldn't have any objection to leaving that in or the scene of Jefferson with the girl over the Paine quote.     Why should it matter to him if this is in a kitchen sink cut or not?

 

Likewise, if the underscore for the Abigal/John conversation prior to "Compliments" remains out, that scene too remains ruined from my standpoint.    The moment of the underscore and when John turns and sees her after she says, "There you have me, John, you are pigheaded" was always a beautifully effective moment.

 

I would much rather continue to watch Dr. Hall and Mr. Rodney in B/W for a few seconds then see a version of the film with changes that would be more annoying from my viewing standpoint.     The only concession I'd make for a "kitchen sink" version as is being described in this thread is that I would likely buy it from an archival standpoint as I felt I reluctantly had to do with the compromised Blu-Ray release of "Major Dundee" (so I could rip the Amfitheatrof score to CD) but my viewing copy every July 4 will remain the version that still suits me fine after all these years and that's the LD cut (transferred to DVD for long-term safety).

 

If it's somehow obnoxious to simply appreciate that version of the film which for so many like me was the greatest thrill I ever experienced after seeing a new home video release of a favorite title, then I'll plead guilty since the whole release of the DVD a decade ago brought out a lot more obnoxious and dislikable behavior on the part of certain other parties who shall remain nameless.

What a presumptuous post this is.  Horrifying really.  Mr. Hunt directed the stage version of 1776 and he directed the film version.  Not you, not Joe C. - if an overture was never intended for this film, if no intermission was ever intended (the stage show had none and the show does not work with one inserted and I've seen many productions - the ones that insert the intermission have NEVER worked because it interrupts the show of its forward momentum at exactly the time it can't - people who add the intermission do so for venal reasons - to sell their little drinks and trinkets) who exactly do you think you ARE demanding these things?  Oh, I forgot that we live in the land of entitlement.  Mr. Hunt seems very willing to have his preferred cut and another which puts back a lot of stuff for the "fans".  That seems most reasonable.  But if he says no overture (there was NEVER EVER an overture for this film) and no intermission - that's it.  The End.  Mr. Hunt is as much responsible for 1776 being the surprising hit it was as are the authors.  As Moe says, and as Mr. Hunt's brother Gordon has confirmed to me, this was a very unworkable piece before Mr. Hunt's involvement and he shaped it and worked with the authors to get it to the place where it was a success.  If I were Mr. Hunt and saw your post I would simply say, "Screw it - do my cut and forget the rest because there will never be any pleasing these people.  Since Mr. Hunt was there at the beginning, I think we should all allow him to present his film as he sees fit - the fact that he's willing - WILLING - to allow some other version is very nice of him and everyone should be saying "Thank you, Mr. Hunt" rather than making with these kinds of completely off-putting posts.


Edited by haineshisway, July 07 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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#106 of 131 JohnMor

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Posted July 07 2013 - 11:00 PM

Well John you don't have the right to speak as the arbiter of taste on the value of the Overture/Intermission as you presumed to do with your bewilderment that "anyone" could have a contrary opinion to your own on the subject.   So I suggest you learn to practice what you preach.    Your post helped change my attitude from "maybe I'll get it for archival reasons" to no sale.

 

No, there is a difference here, Jack.  As you stated, I expressed my bewilderment.  My personal bewilderment.  At no time did I say that "the home theater viewer" or "Hunt" (or any of the other creators of the piece) shared my bewilderment or had to share my bewilderment.  I spoke only for myself.



#107 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 07 2013 - 11:10 PM

No, there is a difference here, Jack.  As you stated, I expressed my bewilderment.  My personal bewilderment.  At no time did I say that "the home theater viewer" or "Hunt" (or any of the other creators of the piece) shared my bewilderment or had to share my bewilderment.  I spoke only for myself.

 

No John, there is no difference.   You presumed *your* standard to be the one for "ANY" fan of the musical regarding the presence of the Overture/Intermission and how one felt about it         Your words were "I don't see how any fan of the show and/or the film could want an Overture and Intermission".     That is a presumption of arrogance of the highest order that those who like it are not somehow true, legitimate fans of the musical and were you a practitioner of what you preached, you would not have so framed it in the terms you did.  Spare me your hypocrisy, it doesn't become you.



#108 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 07 2013 - 11:14 PM

*****Who exactly do you think you ARE demanding these things?***

 

A paying member of the public who is somehow expected to shell out his money for the end product.   I have my right under the First Amendment to express that perspective, and I have done so and I make no apology for doing so, least of all to a person who finds it "horrifying" to see the First Amendment in action.



#109 of 131 JohnMor

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Posted July 07 2013 - 11:17 PM

No John, there is no difference.   You presumed *your* standard to be the one for "ANY" fan of the musical regarding the presence of the Overture/Intermission and how one felt about it         Your words were "I don't see how any fan of the show and/or the film could want an Overture and Intermission".     That is a presumption of arrogance of the highest order that those who like it are not somehow true, legitimate fans of the musical and were you a practitioner of what you preached, you would not have so framed it in the terms you did.  Spare me your hypocrisy, it doesn't become you.

 

That's right: I don't see how any fan...  MY opinion.  No one else's.  I didn't say "No fan of the show would ever like..."  Again, and for the last time, there is a difference. 

As far as the name calling, it's just sad.


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#110 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 07 2013 - 11:32 PM

There is a world of difference between saying, "In my opinion, I don't think an overture helps the film or enhances it" as opposed to "I don't see how any fan of the musical could like one".   If you're not capable of recognizing the difference, I will leave that to be your problem.

 

I've only defended the presence of a version of the film that was previously made available in  a home video format.   That was my perspective on "Major Dundee", it is my perspective on "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" and it remains my perspective for a film I enjoy more than the other two.     I won't apologize for enjoying that version of the film.   If there are others who wish to make enjoyment of that version of the film a great crime against humanity, that must be their problem as well.



#111 of 131 haineshisway

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Posted July 08 2013 - 12:01 AM

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*****Who exactly do you think you ARE demanding these things?***

 

A paying member of the public who is somehow expected to shell out his money for the end product.   I have my right under the First Amendment to express that perspective, and I have done so and I make no apology for doing so, least of all to a person who finds it "horrifying" to see the First Amendment in action.

The First Amendment.  Maybe you should try a career in comedy.  How many times do you have to make the same post - how many words to you have to expend saying the same thing over and over again?  Say it once and move along.  Here is what your right is as a paying member of the public - pay or don't pay.  You've said your piece here and elsewhere hundreds of times.  To even bring up the First Amendment is so perverse it defies belief.  And to be specific, I find your sense of entitlement horrifying.  Under the First Amendment, I believe I have the "right" to find your sense of entitlement and your hundreds of posts on this subject off-putting, and therefore, under the First Amendment, I am so stating.   


Edited by haineshisway, July 08 2013 - 12:06 AM.

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#112 of 131 Ejanss

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Posted July 08 2013 - 12:05 AM

*****Who exactly do you think you ARE demanding these things?***

 

A paying member of the public who is somehow expected to shell out his money for the end product.   I have my right under the First Amendment to express that perspective, and I have done so and I make no apology for doing so, least of all to a person who finds it "horrifying" to see the First Amendment in action.

 

Uh, actually you don't--In fact, it's most of the "entitled" folk who use "First Amendment" when people tell them they can't get what they want, who would be the most "horrified".  (And heehee, I love to see their faces when they are....  :D  )
1A states that Congress will make no law to directly abridge the owner of speech--Meaning, that Nixon couldn't tell Sony to pull out the Cool Men number by Congressional order just because he didn't like it, but that didn't mean the audience could "demand" to see it.  Columbia owned the movie, and the audience could shut up and watch it.

If you stand on a streetcorner and protest, as long as it isn't anyone else's streetcorner (ie. a park and not some business's sidewalk), no cop can bother you, but if you do it in the lobby of an office, security can have you escorted outside. (It's THEIR building.)

If you're an editor for a newspaper, the White House can't shut you down for writing critical editorials, but if a reporter turns in a false or offensive story, the editor or publisher can fire him for it.  (It's THEIR paper.)

 

But anyway, sorry, where was I?  Oh yes--Peter Hunt and Columbia.  It's THEIR movie.


Edited by Ejanss, July 08 2013 - 12:09 AM.


#113 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 08 2013 - 12:07 AM

 
(Yawn).


#114 of 131 Ejanss

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Posted July 08 2013 - 12:09 AM

 

 
(Yawn).

(Hey, what a coincidence!  That's exactly what my cat says, when I tell him to get off the bed!  :P  )



#115 of 131 haineshisway

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Posted July 08 2013 - 12:10 AM

 

 
(Yawn).

 

Of course "yawn."  What else can you say?


Edited by haineshisway, July 08 2013 - 12:12 AM.


#116 of 131 Robert Crawford

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Posted July 08 2013 - 01:35 AM

Let's stop the disruption of this thread now!  A previous warning has already been issued by another moderator.  I hope further action isn't necessary to enforce those warnings.  Thank you.


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#117 of 131 jim_falconer

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Posted July 08 2013 - 09:00 AM

Let's stop the disruption of this thread now!  A previous warning has already been issued by another moderator.  I hope further action isn't necessary to enforce those warnings.  Thank you.

 

Completely agree Robert.  There are those of us who want the LD version released (kitchen sink, so to speak), and other's who are not as passionate about it.  No need to have name calling.


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#118 of 131 JohnMor

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Posted July 08 2013 - 09:18 AM

I just want to be clear: my desire to see the dvd version on blu was not IN PLACE of the planned full(er) package.  Only if that one was never going to happen.  I don't do streaming and downloading of my films and music, so I'd love to have this film in HD and blu is it.  I certainly hope the planned blu ray comes to pass!



#119 of 131 Joe Caps

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Posted July 08 2013 - 10:02 AM

Hello, I am Joe Caporiccio.  I was responsible for the laserdisc version of 1776.

 

It all started when I was trying to find the missin Cool Considerate Men.

 

I first found two short bits makred   Martha Jefferson at window    and    Jefferson and child.

 

I showed these to Peter Hunt and asked what they were.  "Oh, that's from the long version of the film"    Howlong - he said around three hours.   He asked me then and there if I could put the entire version back together.  I didn't know if it was possible, but I said that I would try.

 

Then meeting with Pioneer legal.  Anything put back into the film would haveto be approved by Peter Hunt  and Sony legal.   

 

Comncerning the Overture - one for the film was certainly planned by Ray Heindorf.   He outlined in a long memo what he planned to include.   I followed his plan by editing pieces already in the film.

the folks in Sony music legal said it was fine as long as all music had actually already been used in the film.   It was paid for and there was no reuse fees required as it was still being used for its original use - as part of the film.

      Everything I did was scrutinized by Hunt and by Pioneer legal and Sony legal.

 

As for restoring both Overture and Intermission pieces to a new blu ray - why not?  they can be easily skipped over, for those who do not wish to hear them.

 

As for the new mix sounding better than the one I did ??   I think not, the newer miz vequently sounding thin and pale in comparison.


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#120 of 131 Jack P

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Posted July 08 2013 - 10:15 AM

Thanks for offering your take on events, Joe. 







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