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film grain


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#161 of 171 Robin9

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Posted June 13 2013 - 09:41 PM

"Real life doesn't have grain" is a peculiar argument, I think. Real life doesn't have a musical score, either.

 

Even though it obviously should.

 

A clever argument but fatally flawed. The musical score is intended. Grain isn't.



#162 of 171 FoxyMulder

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Posted June 14 2013 - 03:19 AM

i see.

 

well then could a sharpness of 0 also mean that it is too soft ?

 

that is what my eyes see.  a softer, blurrier image than i would if i saw him in real life ?

 

anyways, the rest of the settings are probably a lot closer to neutral than my sharpness or color would be.

 

and i have a hard time thinking that color would have much to do with the flickering ?

 

anyways, i am just starting to watch tango and cash.  the first couple of minutes look pretty good.  i think the movie was originally released in 1989 - so i guess that it is definitely film.

 

No one can tell you the correct sharpness or contrast and brightness settings, you need a calibration disc, 0 for sharpness on your set might be wrong, maybe it needs 10, we can't tell you, a calibration disc can help you out, seriously consider buying the Spears and Munsil 2nd edition, i have Tango and Cash on blu ray, it's got film grain in it, i thought it was a decent transfer.


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

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#163 of 171 Michel_Hafner

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Posted June 14 2013 - 07:38 AM

A clever argument but fatally flawed. The musical score is intended. Grain isn't.

That's equally flawed, as whether grain is intended or not has to be decided on a case by case basis and there is no general correct answer (whether it's yes or no). It certainly is to some amount unavoidable when shooting on film since the film image is always coupled to the appearance of grain. So people shooting on film do so knowing that they will have grain in their work. And people explicitly chosing film over digital origination even more so, as they often want the texture film (grain) brings with it. In these cases the claim "grain is not intended" is false.



#164 of 171 jimmyjet

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Posted June 14 2013 - 07:41 AM

hi foxy,

 

i understand.  i cant be guaranteed of neutrality with just numbers.  i may buy that disk eventually.

 

btw, i turned down my color to 70, just for experimentation.  i still have lots of nice color at that number, so i may leave it there.

 

tango was fine.  i wish i could say that much for the movie - i dont care for the rambo-type movies.

 

saturday night fever was fine, too.  i had seen it before on tv - i did not realize how much crudeness there was - too much for me to really like it.

 

but i dont expect to like every movie i buy.  i had no idea how much i would like "think like a man".  that was really well-written, and the actors did a good job.

 

i am pretty sure that the flicker i see is caused by the grain, in some way.  when i study any of the pictures, i can see the flicker in lots of places.  but for some reason, it was real noticeable in butch. 

 

but i have viewed about 15 blu-rays, now.  and butch was the only one where it was distracting to me.  so it does not look like it is gonna be a major issue for me.

 

i would prefer to remove all grain, if it was possible to do so, without harming anything else.  but this is still way clearer than i have ever had before.



#165 of 171 Mike Frezon

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Posted June 14 2013 - 09:45 AM

So was there no "flicker" in Tango & Cash or Saturday Night Fever?


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

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#166 of 171 jimmyjet

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Posted June 14 2013 - 10:42 AM

nothing that was bothersome.  the first few minutes of snf had my eyes sorta searching for better clarity, but then when the main show started, it cleared up.

 

i do know that my eyes are sensitive to clarity issues.

 

i could not wear soft contacts because of a slight discrepancy in the vision of one eye.

 

my doctor told me that would not bother one person in a hundred.  but it was real bothersome to me.

 

so i wore hard lenses fine for a long time, before i finally reverted back to glasses.

 

i do hope there will be technology at some point where there is an option to wipe  JUST THE GRAIN completely away, so that all of us can be satisfied.

 

but this is what exists today, and i feel fortunate that i have the opportunity to see this stuff with way better clarity than ever before.



#167 of 171 FoxyMulder

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Posted June 14 2013 - 11:53 AM

 

i do hope there will be technology at some point where there is an option to wipe  JUST THE GRAIN completely away, so that all of us can be satisfied.

 

 

You mean on your television or player right. ?


     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#168 of 171 Mike Frezon

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Posted June 14 2013 - 11:58 AM

*
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Until you are able to point to a particular scene (with time-code references) in a particular Blu-ray release, the many HTF members who have gathered here to help you will continue to have their hands tied and this conversation is not going to move forward.

 

You have been advised by individuals who know much more about this technology than you or I ever will that you need to have your set properly calibrated and that the assumptions you are drawing about the phenomena you refer to as "flicker" and "grain" are incorrect. 

 

Unless you can be more specific about the issues you want cleared up, I am beginning to think this thread will have run its course. 


  • Robert Harris, Brian Kidd, Richard V and 2 others like this

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#169 of 171 haineshisway

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Posted June 14 2013 - 04:11 PM

When someone is willfully not providing this information yet repeatedly posting the same thing, it's trolling - I'm sorry.  How can it be anything else?  How hard would it be to provide a time where we could all look at Butch Cassidy to see this purported flicker that all of us already know isn't there?  If this was serious we'd have had that information by now.  The fact that anyone is responding to these posts is more astonishing than the posts themselves :)


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#170 of 171 Robert Crawford

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Posted June 14 2013 - 04:17 PM

I think this thread has run its course too.


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#171 of 171 jimmyjet

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Posted June 14 2013 - 04:22 PM

no problem - i was not trying to aim it to any particular course.






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