New House, High Ceilings, need more sub (1 Viewer)

VanillaRice · Jun 6, 2013

My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.

My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.

Robert_J · Jun 6, 2013

For placement, you will need an SPL meter and the time to crawl around on the floor.

Start working on a budget for the DIY sub. I suggest an 18". Too bad there aren't any 21's for home theater out right now.

VanillaRice · Jun 6, 2013

OK robert. You've helped me in the past, not sure if you can remember.

Is a 'home theater' sub necessary or will a car audio 18" do ? Is 4 ohm the standard for both types?

sean1976 · Jun 7, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.

My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.

220208.jpg

I can't quite tell from the photo, but is there a doorway behind that left speaker and sub? If so obviously move it to the right corner. Corner placement of subs ( as I'm sure you probably know ) will maximize output, although will sometimes make the bass sound too boomy. Other then that, I would definitely recommend two subs - I myself have experienced the difference in my space by adding a second ( exact same ) sub, it opens up more placement options, and will guarantee a smoother bass response, while adding about 6db ( I believe ). Beyond doing a sub crawl, you could download REW - a free program that will basically allow you to see and correct for the best LFE with your room characteristics. All rooms have nulls, and this could help you in that respect. It will basically tell you the best place to put your sub (s) with your mic located at the primary seating position. It does require a mic though, although I think you can get away with a USB mic. Here's the link: http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

VanillaRice · Jun 7, 2013

Interesting thanks for that software, I've already downloaded it and will get around to installing it asap. No there is no doorway behind the left speaker. I just played a few songs that hit low notes around the 40-60hz mark and it just sounds quiet and muffled now. At my old house the bass track of these songs sounded flawless, now its as if they're missing from the song. It sucks !

sean1976 · Jun 7, 2013

VanillaRice said:
Interesting thanks for that software, I've already downloaded it and will get around to installing it asap. No there is no doorway behind the left speaker. I just played a few songs that hit low notes around the 40-60hz mark and it just sounds quiet and muffled now. At my old house the bass track of these songs sounded flawless, now its as if they're missing from the song. It sucks !

Well your old room configuration probably had different characteristics... be it corners or open doors or different flooring ( carpeting, hardwood etc ) that effected it. To really get a better feel for the sub you might want to try something that's lower then 40... War of the Worlds is everyone's go to movie for bass demo's it seems, and generally movies have WAY lower frequencies then music. Does your AVR have room correction software such as Audessey EQ or MultiEQ ? You should check, irrespective of that to see where you've got your crossovers set. The reason why I ask is if you've moved your AVR it's possible that having run it before it's reset it's internal crossovers. I assume you've got your AVR set to crossover to the sub at 80hz and your low pass filter ( not that it's needed if your AVR sets the crossover ) turned up past 100 or so? If you moved the sub, and accidentally moved the dial on the sub ( not the gain, the low pass crossover ) down too low - it wouldn't reproduce much bass in the region you were talking about. I.e. if you had turned the crossover on the sub down to 40, everything above 40 would be cut out. 1. Your fronts aren't nearly as effective at reproducing the LFE as I assume they don't have 10" woofers, and 2. they wouldn't produce anything ( bass wise anyways ) at all if your AVR was set to crossover at 80 and your low pass was set at 40 You'd loose everything between 40 and 80. Just a thought. ( I'm sure you probably know all that but just in case you didn't

)

Robert_J · Jun 7, 2013

Like Sean has explained, your room makes a HUGE difference in the low end of the spectrum.

I like the concept of REW but I have never gotten around to getting the rest of the equipment that is needed. I know an external sound card and a calibrated mic will be handy in by my home and cars but I'll stick with my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter for a little longer.

VanillaRice said:
OK robert. You've helped me in the past, not sure if you can remember.

Is a 'home theater' sub necessary or will a car audio 18" do ? Is 4 ohm the standard for both types?

There is no such thing as a "home theater" sub or a "car" sub. Those are just marketing terms. Subs are subs and there are a few that will have the appropriate Theile/Small parameters to meet your design goals. 4 ohm isn't standard in the car audio world and hasn't been for about 10 years. My car sub is wired for 1 ohm right now. There are some high end car amps that will handle a 1/2 or even a 1/4 ohm load. My home audio subs are both wired for 2 ohms because that's the load my amp puts out the most power into while in stereo mode.

Stereo Integrity (Known as SI for years in the car audio world) has some new 15" and 18" models that are getting rave reviews from the home theater guys.http://www.stereointegrity.com/ TC Sounds is still a major player in both the car and home theater market. They are available from Parts Express and a few Ebay sellers. Speaking of PE, their Dayton line of subs is always a good choice. Sundown Audio has a new line of subs with the first pictures posted yesterday. These things are capable of huge amounts of excursion. http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/153017-x-series-production-photos.html Finally, Pink Star Industries (PSI) Car Audio will custom build you a driver to fit your exact needs. I run one of his one-off custom models in my wife's car and have some others sitting around the house. When I say one-off, I mean it. There are no others like it. They were my design with a little help from David (the owner). http://psicaraudio.com/

VanillaRice · Jun 10, 2013

Thanks Sean and Robert very interesting. I will check over my amp settings to make sure nothings changed with my crossovers. My sub is all configured with my remote and I'm positive thats not causing any problems. 99% sure the room area is the problem. Robert those subs all look very nice, but my location is a problem there. Unless I travel light to the US next time I'm there I could check it with my luggage but I've seen some possiblities in my country.
Something like : http://www.hyperdrive.co.nz/product/subs/130/sub-15-inch-t7-15-4-t7-4-ohm-900-rms/153776/detail
with this that can hadle two of those: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=601555164

Robert_J · Jun 11, 2013

I had forgotten you weren't US based. Filling out the location field in your profile will help in the future.

Those are some nice Soundstream subs. I found the owner's manual - http://soundstream.com/store/car-audio/subwoofers/tarantula/t7-154.html and the specs are very nice. I'd go with a sealed enclosure of about 3.5 cubic feet. If you need plans, use this design - http://www.danmarx.org/audioinnovation/tc3000.html That amp should work fine but I prefer Behringer if you can get one of those.

VanillaRice · Jun 11, 2013

I like that enclosure, very solid build. I could start the enclosure build as a project until I cant afford the rest of the gear. Lucky for me I have access to a lot of the tools I need at work.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 11, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 220208.jpg

I am the proud owner of a Jamo D7 THX Ultra 2 certified subwoofer. My house is nearly as large as a medium sized four star hotel. And when I crank up the sub levels and the amp volume, things start falling all over the floor from the shelves in the room, 16 inch thick walls around the sub have undergone structural damage with large cracks in the POP and paint, and I am told that the whole floor on which the building stands, shakes and vibrates with the tremendous air pressure being created by the subwoofer, and people say that "was it an earthquake?"

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 11, 2013

Robert_J said:
For placement, you will need an SPL meter and the time to crawl around on the floor.Start working on a budget for the DIY sub. I suggest an 18". Too bad there aren't any 21's for home theater out right now.

If he has the budget and space for it, two 15 inchers that I have told him about should do the trick.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 11, 2013

VanillaRice said:
OK robert. You've helped me in the past, not sure if you can remember.Is a 'home theater' sub necessary or will a car audio 18" do ? Is 4 ohm the standard for both types?

What I mentioned is 22 ohms. The satellites of the same series are the 4 ohms ones.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 11, 2013

sean1976 said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.

My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.

220208.jpg

I can't quite tell from the photo, but is there a doorway behind that left speaker and sub? If so obviously move it to the right corner. Corner placement of subs ( as I'm sure you probably know ) will maximize output, although will sometimes make the bass sound too boomy. Other then that, I would definitely recommend two subs - I myself have experienced the difference in my space by adding a second ( exact same ) sub, it opens up more placement options, and will guarantee a smoother bass response, while adding about 6db ( I believe ). Beyond doing a sub crawl, you could download REW - a free program that will basically allow you to see and correct for the best LFE with your room characteristics. All rooms have nulls, and this could help you in that respect. It will basically tell you the best place to put your sub (s) with your mic located at the primary seating position. It does require a mic though, although I think you can get away with a USB mic. Here's the link: http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Click to expand...

It does make it boomy indeed, so I use the BGC on the D7 to avoid that. I told him about the second sub as well, since the D7 is THX Ultra 2 certified, and REQUIRES "2" subs for maximum response. The Denon AVR-4810 that I use to power my 9.1 channel setup has something widely regarded by Home Theatre magazine to be the new standard for audio calibration. It is known as Audyssey.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 12, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 220208.jpg

Check out these images of my sub in my room. View attachment 2145

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 12, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 220208.jpg

Sorry, image not get uploaded properly. Am trying it again. View attachment 2146

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 12, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 220208.jpg

I can't seem to upload the photo from my iPad. I don't know why.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 12, 2013

VanillaRice said:
My little 10" mission m6as used to shake plates in my kitchen at my old place. Now it sounds and feels weak. My ceilings were low and I could close all the doors leading into my lounge room which was perfect . The house I live in now is quite open, it's an old house sorry for the misleading title. Can someone offer some creative placement advice until I can afford to upgrade my sub setup to a DIY 15" or similar? Also, looking at the pics would a 15" DIY be enough to pressurize this space ? I want to shake my plates off the shelves again.
My Sub is sitting just behind the left front speaker. Sorry for the mess hehe.
{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif 220208.jpg

Of my sub, I meant.

sean1976 · Jun 12, 2013

arjundeepakshriram said:
I am the proud owner of a Jamo D7 THX Ultra 2 certified subwoofer. My house is nearly as large as a medium sized four star hotel. And when I crank up the sub levels and the amp volume, things start falling all over the floor from the shelves in the room, 16 inch thick walls around the sub have undergone structural damage with large cracks in the POP and paint, and I am told that the whole floor on which the building stands, shakes and vibrates with the tremendous air pressure being created by the subwoofer, and people say that "was it an earthquake?"

If you're inflicting structural damage on your building - I'd say you're over doing it on your subs.

arjundeepakshriram · Jun 12, 2013

Yup, I love overdoing it!!

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New House, High Ceilings, need more sub (1 Viewer)

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