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WHV Press Release: House of Wax (3D Blu-ray)

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#81 of 119 Bob Furmanek

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Posted July 03 2013 - 11:31 AM

Yes, that's why (I think) the convergence was drastically altered for the underwater scenes.

 

Any vintage 3-D feature is going to have these issues. They are truly stereoscopic unlike many of the flat, post-converted features of today.


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#82 of 119 FoxyMulder

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Posted July 03 2013 - 12:04 PM

Yes, that's why (I think) the convergence was drastically altered for the underwater scenes.

 

Any vintage 3-D feature is going to have these issues. They are truly stereoscopic unlike many of the flat, post-converted features of today.

 

Does this mean Creature was less impressive than on its original cinema showings, i mean less impressive 3D on the blu ray. ?


Edited by FoxyMulder, July 03 2013 - 12:18 PM.

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#83 of 119 Bob Furmanek

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Posted July 03 2013 - 12:52 PM

Not less impressive, just different.

 

As we illustrate in the article, the underwater emphasis was intended to be "deep" and not "in your face" 3-D. That is what Jack Arnold intended.

 

They've altered his stereoscopic vision to address the limitations of modern displays that have poor cancellation.

 

WB did not do this to DIAL M and respected Hitchcock's vision. I hope they do the same with WAX.


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#84 of 119 Moe Dickstein

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Posted July 03 2013 - 02:00 PM

So glad I have a DLP set...
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#85 of 119 GregK

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Posted July 03 2013 - 02:28 PM

As Bob noted, Warner Brothers has been completely faithful to Alfred Hitchcock's stereoscopic framing of DIAL M FOR MURDER. 99% of this 3-D bluray has been aligned and matched to be far better than the revival 35mm 3-D twin strip prints many have seen over the years. It is a knock out presentation. The DCP version of this same restoration will be showing at the third World 3-D Expo in September: http://3-dfilmexpo.c...al-m-for-murder

 

Those doing the work on CREATURE, on the other hand, felt the need to do alterations. Now this isn't always a bad thing if the film maker's original '3-D intent' was at least noted, understood, and at a minimum remains somewhat respectful to that vision. In this case, the underwater scenes were ALL originally deep behind the screen. What is seen now on the 3-D bluray IS different. Add to that it also helps when convergence adjustments are done correctly. This was not done with CFBL, with convergence sometimes drifting within a given shot and occasionally suffering from vertical misalignment, which at extremes can cause direct eyestrain as our eyes are not meant to have one eye looking "up" while the other eye looks "down". Can this still be an enjoyable and recommended disc? Yes. Could it have been better? Without a doubt, Yes. This was covered in our "in depth" reviews on the 3-D Film Archive website. http://www.3dfilmarc...-black-lagoon-1


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#86 of 119 GregK

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Posted July 03 2013 - 02:42 PM

The main reason most current 3-D titles for the most part play on a majority of 3-D displays without ghosting is the majority of current 3-D releases have a more milder overall 3-D effect that doesn't really tax a given 3D display's limitations.

 

Many current 3DTVs do not meet cancellation specs as those found in theatrical Real-D, IMAX 3-D, and Dolby 3-D. This is confirmable by test patterns.

 

In HUGO, Director Martin Scorsese often places primary subject matter outside of the stereo window into negative z-space. An artistic choice which works fine in 3-D theaters and on superior 3D home displays. But on other 3DTV displays prone to ghosting with tougher material, the primary content matter which is misconverged and also has high contrast will likely cause issues.

 

SPY KIDS 3-D has a wider parallax (more 3-D) than most of today's features. It has objects often pushed far out and sometimes behind the stereo window (Z-space). It is aggressive 3-D. I'd bet this would get complaints from those who also felt there was a problem with DIAL M. And some of the 1980's 3D titles could make DIAL M seem tame by comparison.

 

Ditto for CIRQUE DU SOLEIL, MY BLOODY VALENTINE, INTO THE WILD, SHARKBOY & LAVAGIRL, and in some scenes, JURASSIC PARK 3D and the upcoming STAR-TREK INTO DARKNESS. DLP owners will give a great report, passive owners will give an almost or perfect ghost free score. Plasma owners will deal with a little more ghosting, followed by LED/LCD active display. As mentioned before- the display types I am mentioning are generalities. Panasonic, for example, has continually worked on reducing crosstalk in their active display LCD 3D projectors, but they are not the LCD active norm.

 

This was also discussed previously when discussing possible ghosting on TOP GUN 3-D

http://www.hometheat...-ray/?p=3929177

 

Do we need a sticky and/or dedicated thread on this topic?


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#87 of 119 Charles Smith

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Posted July 03 2013 - 03:12 PM

We probably could use such a thread.

 

Greg, is this something a professional calibration can improve on those problem displays such as Panasonic plasmas?



#88 of 119 Todd J Moore

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Posted July 03 2013 - 03:27 PM

As I've previously noted, I've seen the 3D Blu of Dial M 3 times so far and never once noticed ghosting. Hugo has some ghosting depending on where I sit in relation to the screen. But otherwise, no ghosting. Even The Polar Express, which is another notorious title known for ghosting had none when I watched it. It's worth mentioning that I'm watching these things on a 42 inch Vizio Passive TV, so that might have something to do with it. Oh, and I don't sit right on top of the TV but a good seven feet away. That, of course, is a holdover from the days of the anaglyphic presentations when they told you to sit that far back.

 

Actually, I do have to cop to the fact that SPY KIDS 3-D: GAME OVER displayed ghosting in some of the effect shots. But that's my only trouble disc and as the original anaglyph version suffered from the same, I just accepted it.


Edited by Todd J Moore, July 03 2013 - 06:45 PM.

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Viewing a 3D movie in 2D is kinda like viewing a Scope movie in Pan and Scan.


#89 of 119 GregK

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Posted July 03 2013 - 06:40 PM

We probably could use such a thread.

 

Greg, is this something a professional calibration can improve on those problem displays such as Panasonic plasmas?

 

Hi Charles

 

You could try reducing the contrast and see if that makes any appreciable difference in ghost reduction. One thing to keep in mind is most 3DTVs have separate image settings for the 2D and 3D modes, so any adjustments should be done when in the 3-D mode. The recent Spears and Munsil test disc realizes this and provides almost all of their test patterns in standard 2-D as well as "3-D flagged" versions for calibrating a display in the 3-D mode. I was going to make some extensive 3-D test patterns after making a few simple ones, but nixed that idea after I saw the hard work Spears and Munsil had put into their 3-D section of their latest test disc. The patterns found on the 2D/3D test disc are extensive and can highlight more strengths and weaknesses of 3DTV displays as well as different 3-D display technologies.

 

By default, most manufacturers have their 3-D viewing preset in the overblown torch mode, as they want their displays as bright as possible in 3-D. One suggestion is to find content which shows ghosting on your display. Hopefully the disc is authored to still allow for 3-D viewing when paused. Then adjust contrast to see if ghosting can be reduced. If so, try to find a happy medium of brightness vs ghosting. The other option would be to try out the Spears/Musil test bluray for further calibration in the 3-D mode. If not- in a pinch, I still may have a few of my early and cruder 3-D test patterns around here somewhere....


Edited by GregK, July 03 2013 - 06:42 PM.

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#90 of 119 Steve Tannehill

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Posted July 03 2013 - 06:52 PM

So glad I have a DLP set...

 

 

 

You and me both!


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#91 of 119 Persianimmortal

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Posted July 03 2013 - 09:39 PM

I'm also glad that you guys have a DLP set! Just kidding :)

 

I agree with GregK that contrast has a big impact on the ghosting. In Dial M for Murder, the only really prominent examples of ghosting I recall seeing on my Pana plasma were on things like bright white shirts, especially where only a portion of the shirt (e.g the collar) is seen, bordered by a darker suit. I'm not really keen on reducing contrast as I have it where I like it, especially as so far Dial M is the only disc I've run across that has any ghosting. Let's see how we go with House of Wax.



#92 of 119 Jobla

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Posted July 04 2013 - 01:22 AM

Thomas K. Arnold, the publisher/editor of the trade journal Homemedia Magazine, bemoans the state of 3-D in the home in a column in the current issue of the magazine (July 1-7). He's particularly unhappy about the many different kinds of 3-D glasses and the resultant compatibility issues. He concludes that the 3-D in the home experiment may be dying.

#93 of 119 Ejanss

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Posted July 04 2013 - 02:34 AM

Thomas K. Arnold, the publisher/editor of the trade journal Homemedia Magazine, bemoans the state of 3-D in the home in a column in the current issue of the magazine (July 1-7). He's particularly unhappy about the many different kinds of 3-D glasses and the resultant compatibility issues. He concludes that the 3-D in the home experiment may be dying.

 

(Aren't you glad some of these people aren't medical doctors?

"Well, your current allergy medication doesn't seem to be working, so it's a clear indication you've got three months to live.")   :rolleyes:


Edited by Ejanss, July 04 2013 - 02:36 AM.


#94 of 119 Yorkshire

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Posted July 04 2013 - 02:58 AM

(Aren't you glad some of these people aren't medical doctors?

"Well, your current allergy medication doesn't seem to be working, so it's a clear indication you've got three months to live.")   :rolleyes:

 

Surely the truth is somewhere in the middle.  The patient isn't dying, but I think he's got something worse than a bit of hayfever.

 

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#95 of 119 Yorkshire

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Posted July 04 2013 - 03:00 AM

Yes, that's why (I think) the convergence was drastically altered for the underwater scenes.

 

 

Am I the only one worried that this hasn't caused more concern?

 

Is there any other aspect of a film which could be 'drastically altered' on a Blu-ray Disc release which wouldn't cause pages of discussion at these forums?

 

We're talking about completely changing what was on the original film, as seen in the cinema.

 

Steve W


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#96 of 119 Robert Crawford

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Posted July 04 2013 - 03:42 AM

Am I the only one worried that this hasn't caused more concern?

 

Is there any other aspect of a film which could be 'drastically altered' on a Blu-ray Disc release which wouldn't cause pages of discussion at these forums?

 

We're talking about completely changing what was on the original film, as seen in the cinema.

 

Steve W

It's because only a few of us have the necessary experience/knowledge as a frame of reference to notice it.


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#97 of 119 FoxyMulder

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Posted July 04 2013 - 05:18 AM

Not less impressive, just different.

 

As we illustrate in the article, the underwater emphasis was intended to be "deep" and not "in your face" 3-D. That is what Jack Arnold intended.

 

They've altered his stereoscopic vision to address the limitations of modern displays that have poor cancellation.

 

WB did not do this to DIAL M and respected Hitchcock's vision. I hope they do the same with WAX.

 

So in the future when modern displays improve this disc will not, will they then re-release with the original filmed look, i doubt it, i realy would rather they just left alone and presented the original vision, display technology improves as does projection technology for the home, i remember reading these complaints about ghosting for My Bloody Valentine and Hugo, well yes there is a tiny bit of ghosting, tolerable and not a great issue on my plasma, when i viewed My Bloody Valentine in anaglypth on my projector it was horrendous ghosting, colour was all the place too, the 3D blu ray is fine.

 

My display has had a simple 3D disc calibration, brightness, contrast, sharpness and colours are as close as possible to the 2D mode and i sit about 7 feet from a 60 inch display.


Edited by FoxyMulder, July 04 2013 - 05:31 AM.

     :Fun Movie Quotes:

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself"   

"Maybe it's a sheep dog... let's keep going" 

"Please doctor, I've got to ask this. It sounds like, well, just as though you're describing some form of super carrot"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


#98 of 119 BJQ1972

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Posted July 04 2013 - 07:15 AM

It's because only a few of us have the necessary experience/knowledge as a frame of reference to notice it.

 

 

That hasn't stopped people in the past.



#99 of 119 Persianimmortal

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Posted July 04 2013 - 04:30 PM



So in the future when modern displays improve this disc will not, will they then re-release with the original filmed look, i doubt it, i realy would rather they just left alone and presented the original vision, display technology improves as does projection technology for the home.

 

The problem then is that most people viewing the correct 3D version on currently imperfect equipment will quickly come to the conclusion that it's not worth buying 3D movies if they look awful in their home. Hence the sales of Creature from the Black Lagoon would have been dismal, and as a result, we'd likely have less 3D titles in the future.

 

The reality is that BD is currently tied to existing display equipment. Sure, future display technologies will improve in all sorts of ways, but by then we'll also have a better format than BD (e.g. 4K). People need to stop thinking of BD as being the final evolution of home media.



#100 of 119 Robert Crawford

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Posted July 04 2013 - 04:37 PM

That hasn't stopped people in the past.

To a degree it has because it's easier to take a studio to task for using an incorrect aspect ratio due to available reference guides to do so.


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