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A few words about...™ Cleopatra (1963) - U.S. Release -- in Blu-ray

A Few Words About

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#21 of 181 OFFLINE   Billy Batson

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Posted May 24 2013 - 09:34 AM

Well David, we shall see. I'm in the mood to see it this evening. I've turned the colour & the brightness up a bit & set the colour balance to warm on my telly. It's 6.30pm in London now (& a dull old day), & the show starts at 7.30, when my meal is cooked.



#22 of 181 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:06 AM

The missing 2 hours really would have made a tremendous difference. Don't take my word for it see for yourself:

http://www.taylortri...ra page 01.html

This website was made by someone with a copy of the complete script and stills from the missing scenes. It explains everything that was taken out and you can see how even the 4 hour version is pretty well truncated in many places in terms of logic.

The main thing to keep in mind was that it wasn't to be a six hour film, it was meant to be 2 three hour films, and it would have worked like gangbusters.
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#23 of 181 OFFLINE   marcco00

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:10 AM

here is the reconstructed script from a popular website dedicated to this film:

 

 

http://taylortribute... Main Page.html

 

 

moe you beat me to it! :D


Edited by marcco00, May 24 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#24 of 181 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:21 AM

moe you beat me to it! :D


Great minds...
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#25 of 181 OFFLINE   Peter Apruzzese

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:23 AM

Thanks for those links, I hope to be able to read through them soon.


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#26 of 181 OFFLINE   Moe Dickstein

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:45 AM

The best way to do it is with the Movie going too, you read the red bits which are the cut scenes with full dialogue, then you watch the movie for the green bits.
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#27 of 181 OFFLINE   David_B_K

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Posted May 24 2013 - 11:05 AM

Billy, I'm going to wait until the Sunday matinee at the local cinemark threater to watch it again.

 

Thanks, guys for the link to the script.



#28 of 181 OFFLINE   Doctorossi

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Posted May 24 2013 - 11:06 AM

What am I missing about the placement of the entr'acte? It would seem to me the original placement, at the end of disc 1, would provide the user more (and more convenient) viewing/presentation options. I don't understand what's "strange" about that placement.


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#29 of 181 OFFLINE   Paul Rossen

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Posted May 24 2013 - 11:27 AM

What am I missing about the placement of the entr'acte? It would seem to me the original placement, at the end of disc 1, would provide the user more (and more convenient) viewing/presentation options. I don't understand what's "strange" about that placement.

 

As with a theatrical show the roadshow movies of yore always placed the Entr'acte music at the start of the second half of the film.  It is the proper way this movie and all roadshows that had Entr'actes were presented.  As apparently presented on the UK disc the Entr'acte actually becomes an epilogue for the first half instead of an "overture' for the second.



#30 of 181 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted May 24 2013 - 11:33 AM

Some entr'actes flow directly into the ACT II action without pausing.  Oklahoma and The Sound of Music are two examples of this.



#31 of 181 OFFLINE   JoshZ

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Posted May 24 2013 - 11:55 AM

The entr'acte is intended to provide the audience time for a bathroom break, something that isn't really needed in the home video era where viewers can pause the movie whenever they want. While it should certainly be preserved on the disc, if you're of the mindset that it's not something you actually need to sit through, then it makes more sense to put the entr'acte at the end of Part 1 than at the beginning of Part 2. There, it would function much like an end credits sequence for the fist half, and you can jump into the second half as soon as you're ready.

 

On the other hand, if you're of the mindset that the entr'acte is like an overture that you're supposed to sit through to get in the mood for the movie, in that case it makes more sense at the beginning of Part 2.


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#32 of 181 OFFLINE   Russell G

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Posted May 24 2013 - 12:01 PM

 

 

On the other hand, if you're of the mindset that the entr'acte is like an overture that you're supposed to sit through to get in the mood for the movie, in that case it makes more sense at the beginning of Part 2.

 

Which if your of that mindset then you're going to watch Part 2 after part 1 anyway so it doesn't matter which disc it appears on, you're sitting through it regardless. :P



#33 of 181 OFFLINE   Douglas R

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Posted May 24 2013 - 12:02 PM

Some entr'actes flow directly into the ACT II action without pausing.  Oklahoma and The Sound of Music are two examples of this.

 

And even if the Entr'acte didn't flow directly into the action, there was very little pause between the last note of the Entr'acte and the start of Part 2. The music was meant to be carried seamlessly through to the second part of the film. It wasn't just a standalone piece of music - it was designed to get the audience into the right mood.


Edited by Douglas R, May 24 2013 - 08:56 PM.


#34 of 181 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted May 24 2013 - 12:03 PM

How about giving the entr'acte its own separate, skippable chapter at the opening of Act II and make everybody happy?



#35 of 181 ONLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted May 24 2013 - 12:55 PM

The missing 2 hours really would have made a tremendous difference. Don't take my word for it see for yourself:

http://www.taylortri...ra page 01.html

This website was made by someone with a copy of the complete script and stills from the missing scenes. It explains everything that was taken out and you can see how even the 4 hour version is pretty well truncated in many places in terms of logic.

The main thing to keep in mind was that it wasn't to be a six hour film, it was meant to be 2 three hour films, and it would have worked like gangbusters.

 

If only the movie had been directed by Peter Jackson...


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#36 of 181 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:23 PM

The entr'acte is intended to provide the audience time for a bathroom break ...Part 2.

The Intermission was for the bathroom break. That usually lasted 10 to 15 minutes with the curtain closed and lights up. The Entr'acte was to to call the patrons back to their seats and help place them in the mood for the second half if the film. During the Entr'acte the house lights would dim and and by its end the theatre would be dark and the curtain opens.

My mindset is it belongs at the beginning of part two to give the viewer the Roadshow experience.

I would surmise that the people that want it correctly placed are ones that experienced a Roadshow in Theatres.

Edited by ahollis, May 24 2013 - 02:15 PM.

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#37 of 181 OFFLINE   Paul Rossen

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:41 PM

The Intermission was for the bathroom break. That usually lasted 10 to 15 minutes with the curtain closed and lights up. The Entr'acte was to to call the patrons back to their seats and help place them in the mood for the second half if the film. During the Entr'acte the house lights would dim and and by its end the theatre would be dark and the curtain opens.

My mindset is it belongs at the beginning of part one to give the viewer the Roadshow experience.

I would surmise that the people that want it correctly placed are ones that experienced a Roadshow in Theatres.

First statement is 100% correct.

Believe that you meant to say that the mindset should be at the beginning  part two(not one) as part one already has an overture.

Third statement is correct as the entr'acte was indeed experienced as part of second half of the film.

 

By the way I viewed an excellent presentation of Cleopatra the other day at a local Regal Theatre.  The entr'acte was indeed played at the end of the intermission break and just prior to the beginning of the second part of the film.


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#38 of 181 ONLINE   ROclockCK

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:45 PM

Aside from that this magnificent epic with 65mm cinematography by Leon Shamroy and classic score by Alex North, seems to be precisely the same as the UK version.

 

Which to my eyes, is very nice.  To those with more modest video panels, it should look superb.  In projection, lesser so, as it isn't up to the quality seen in some other large format release, being scanned at a lower resolution.  The final result is also far less stellar than one might expect, but nice, still the same.

 

But wasn't Cleopatra harvested via 8k scan Mr. Harris? Around the time It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World landed, I recall reading this little blurb from FotoKem

 


"At FotoKem we QC 65mm IP’s on a 50˝ plasma monitor within our 65mm HD telecine suite to insure their photographic integrity. Digitizing 65mm classics at FotoKem occurs on one of our two matched IMAGICA XE 65mm scanners, nicknamed ‘Big Foot’ and ‘Yeti’ due to their sizable footprint. Armed with 11K sensors, they are the world’s only film scanners able to sample 65mm negative at 8K resolution ‘perf to perf’, and have been used in this capacity on many 65mm classics, including ‘South Pacific’, ‘It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World’ and others.

While the sampling of the negative element occurs at 8K (wide) resolution, digital mastering – which moves us from preservation into the realm of restoration – occurs at either 4K, 2K or HD resolution, depending on the deliverable requirements and budgetary realities of each project. 4K digital mastering from an 8K scan is an ideal situation when preserving or restoring a 65mm classic. FotoKem is engaged at the time of this writing on such as restoration for 20th Century Fox on the 65mm classic, ‘The Sound of Music’. The results are as breathtaking as you might imagine; and the digital tools at our disposal are affording us the opportunity to improve long-standing issues such as flicker and gate hairs. We are guided in this work, as in all of our 65mm preservation work, by an over-riding maxim: honor the original, and do no harm.

65mm classics handled by FotoKem include: Dr.Dolittle, West Side Story, It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, South Pacific, Khartoum, Can Can, The Sound of Music, Baraka, Oklahoma!, The Bible, Cleopatra and Star!" "

 

If this was not the case, then I hope you can provide some insight about what was actually done for Cleopatra. I've always understood that it received top tier handling, like the other Fox Todd-AO titles mentioned in the above quote.  



#39 of 181 OFFLINE   Rob_Ray

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Posted May 24 2013 - 01:48 PM

Cleopatra is the only film I recall seeing in a 16mm TV print on a local station, in which they ran the overture and exit music with nothing but black leader onscreen.  This was sometime around 1980 or so.  I don't recall if the entr'acte was included or indeed whether it was the full-length version.



#40 of 181 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted May 24 2013 - 02:17 PM



The Intermission was for the bathroom break. That usually lasted 10 to 15 minutes with the curtain closed and lights up. The Entr'acte was to to call the patrons back to their seats and help place them in the mood for the second half if the film. During the Entr'acte the house lights would dim and and by its end the theatre would be dark and the curtain opens.


My mindset is it belongs at the beginning of part one to give the viewer the Roadshow experience.


I would surmise that the people that want it correctly placed are ones that experienced a Roadshow in Theatres.

First statement is 100% correct.
Believe that you meant to say that the mindset should be at the beginning part two(not one) as part one already has an overture.
Third statement is correct as the entr'acte was indeed experienced as part of second half of the film.

By the way I viewed an excellent presentation of Cleopatra the other day at a local Regal Theatre. The entr'acte was indeed played at the end of the intermission break and just prior to the beginning of the second part of the film.


You are right I intended to say the Entr'acte belongs at the beginning if Part Two. I have corrected it. Thanks.
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