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XBOX One Revealed

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#41 of 126 mattCR

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Posted May 23 2013 - 12:19 PM

Hell, I'm not worried about the borrowing thing as much as the fact I have two XBOXs in my house; one is mostly a Media Center extender, and the other is for kids.. but each of our kids has an XBOX ID, which is part of our XBOX Gold Family Plan.. if we were to have two XBOX ones, let's say, as we do now.. a game would only be playable on ONE system, and so we'd have some games we own on one system, some on the other, even though we bought and owned them.   That's kind of silly.


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#42 of 126 mattCR

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Posted May 23 2013 - 12:25 PM

Indie Developers very unhappy about XBOX One..

 

http://www.destructo...er-254326.phtml

 

Some big names in their (like Minecraft, etc.) who basically say MS's move to chop out indie games pretty much means they are heading to Sony.


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#43 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 23 2013 - 12:33 PM

Jeff, check that Verge video on Kinect, looks like the infrared scanning will work just fine in your (and my!) batcave home theaters.

 

The downside of course is figuring it way the hell over in front of the screen somewhere, mine rack is on the right hand wall, not beneath the screen.

 

Matt: I'm with you on the downsides of pure digital.  It sounds like Microsoft is going to say "sure you can trade in your games but it has to go through us, which would be bullshit.  Also with download movies and music you can't loan those today, so that's not a big deal, but remember your rights die when you do, you can't pass em on the way you can a CD or Blu!

 

If the economics change so that everyone can own this stuff at reasonable prices I am ok with losing that transferable license, but not at full retail.


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#44 of 126 Morgan Jolley

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Posted May 23 2013 - 04:37 PM

Jeffery_H - Where did you get a lot of that information?  Much of that contradicts the official MS press info.

 

Jeff Cooper - Kinect works in the dark because the 3D info is collected from an IR beam.  Lighting isn't an issue.  I'm not sure if some of its functions require light, but I believe one big point of the press info so far is that it works in the dark.

 

In regards to lending games, you can lend games and use them on any console so long as you log into your XBL account and sign in.  When you leave your friend/family member's console, they will need to pay a fee to play the game more.  Yeah, this sucks.

 

Russell G - How does the PS4 seem less impressive?  The features MS is showing are basically the ones that HTPCs, WebTV, and your current cable box have had for years (going to the 90s for some higher-end stuff).  The PS4 is, on paper, technically superior to the Xbox One.  Also, look at the streaming options available on PS3 compared to the 360; it blows MS away and this will continue in the next generation.  Literally, the only thing MS has shown that the PS3 doesn't have is the TV controlling stuff which I don't think will be that huge or great.

 

I buy used games because it's the best way to get them cheap.  I do not play anything multiplayer, I usually plow through games once (and on an easy difficulty, maybe normal), and I don't try to unlock all of the content.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm not getting a $60 experience so I won't pay $60.  HOWEVER for some major releases I will pay full price, or I will buy a game new if it is on sale.

 

There was a good article on Kotaku about how a lot of studios are blaming used games for their poor sales, when the real reason for the poor sales are that those companies are either making shitty games or setting unrealistic sales goals.



#45 of 126 DaveF

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Posted May 23 2013 - 05:19 PM

I understand that many people would be unaffected by the no rental / no used market decision (I am one of them) but there is one more thing that brings: no borrowing either..

Yep. This is a problem with the cloud era that I can't stop talking about: it kills borrowing. I love my Kindle, but I can no longer borrow my dad's Clive Cussler book when he's done with it. Half of my Xbox playing the past three years was borrowed from a friend.

 

From the link:

"This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced. If the system phones home every so often to check on your licenses, and there is no way to play a game without that title being authenticated and a license being active, piracy becomes harder. You'll never be able to stop pirates, not entirely, but if you can make the act of pirating games non-trivial the incidence of piracy will drop. This is a good thing for everyone except those who want to play games for free."

 

Is piracy a problem on the Xbox 360? You need the disk to play a game, even if "installed" to the hard drive. Borrow a game and your friend, the original owner, can no longer play it. Is borrowing now piracy?



#46 of 126 DaveF

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Posted May 23 2013 - 05:24 PM

Sam-

That is the most accurate conclusion.   Like I said, I wont' use the HDMI pass through, don't care about those functions.. but I'll still buy for the games.

 

 

I figured you'd use it as your new Extender, and take advantage of the Snap-To dual-tasking features with that. Or maybe that's what you're implying, and so the pass-through then has no use.



#47 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 23 2013 - 05:47 PM

Yep. This is a problem with the cloud era that I can't stop talking about: it kills borrowing. I love my Kindle, but I can no longer borrow my dad's Clive Cussler book when he's done with it. Half of my Xbox playing the past three years was borrowed from a friend.

 

Of course you can.  Kindle has an extensive lending program, both person to person and library based.


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#48 of 126 DaveF

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Posted May 23 2013 - 06:04 PM

Of course you can.  Kindle has an extensive lending program, both person to person and library based.

Amazon has a lending program with no books in it.

 

The user-to-user lending system is worthless. I've yet to be able to lend a book to my dad, or vice versa. It's optional for publishers to opt in, and it seems that none have. It's also a two week period, with only one allowance (I believe); I need months to borrow a book and finish. It isn't available from the Kindle, but must be done from the Amazon website. And you can't know if a book can be lent without trying to lend it and failing.

 

The Amazon Kindle Lending Library is book lending like Netlfix is video lending: it requires an Amazon Prime subscription.

 

There are ebooks and Kindle books available through public libraries, and I've enjoyed that the past couple years. Credit to Amazon and others for enabling that. (Unfortunately, options tend to be comparatively slim and incomplete.)

 

I maintain: digital media is great. And it's terrible, eliminating friend to friend lending. This is a cultural change. If this doesn't get sorted technologically, legally, etc, we may not appreciate the impact to society for a generation but it could be significant. (Queue "bum bum bummmmm!" music)



#49 of 126 mattCR

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Posted May 23 2013 - 06:16 PM

I figured you'd use it as your new Extender, and take advantage of the Snap-To dual-tasking features with that. Or maybe that's what you're implying, and so the pass-through then has no use.

 

Yes.   It appears, after some digging, as though Media Center Extender is going to be in there, with new supports.. but I will wait and see.   I would use that, but the HDMI pass through?  Zip interest


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#50 of 126 Jeffery_H

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Posted May 23 2013 - 10:19 PM

Jeffery_H - Where did you get a lot of that information?  Much of that contradicts the official MS press info.

 

 

Please post the exact parts of my post you say are "contradictions" to the MS press info. Most of what is there has been stated on several web sites and podcasts already.

 

The part about the Hard Drive being tied to your XBox One serial number is confirmed. It works much like the 360 does now along the same way DirecTV and cable boxes lock their recording drives to a specific unit. If something goes wrong just send to MS for repair and they can replace and/or transfer data.

 

The part about the rental pricing of used games or trying a game a friend brings has NOT been locked down as stated. But on the show floor, rumor had it from reliable sources that was how it would likely be as of now for the price structure.

 

The part about the apps is CONFIRMED and MS is hoping to have most major cable and satellite providers on board or very soon. Those apps will be much like the iOS and Android versions in how they work. No IR is required, works over WiFi just like the apps do on the smartphone.

 

The part about the always on internet has been confirmed many times and on many sites working the way I said in the post.

 

NOTE: As I point out in my post, this is the initial information we have from MS. Everyone expects this to be in flux somewhat up until E3 or thereafter. Rental/used game pricing structure and others are NOT locked in yet and likely won't be until then. Everyone expects some changes, what and how much remains to be seen in terms of their policy and fees for such things. They are seeing how BIG of a backlash there is AND most importantly what Sony does with their policy. If Sony sees this as a big enough marketing oportunity, you can expect to see changes coming from both.



#51 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 24 2013 - 05:30 AM

Yeah this clears it up not at all:

http://www.engadget....sed-game-rumor/


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#52 of 126 Morgan Jolley

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Posted May 24 2013 - 05:30 AM

Jeffery_H - My main question was in regards to the HDD thing.  Everything I read said the HDD was 500 GB and that was it, but you can add USB 3.0 external drives.  There's no way to change the internal.  Where did you read or hear something different?

 

The Xbox 360 currently has a few streaming cable services, like FiOS and Uverse, so I expect they will try to use those again if they are able and the HDMI pass-through is for those that don't have those apps.  That said, I live on Long Island and I don't have FiOS so someone in my position would have to use the HDMI pass-through, which personally seems kind of silly.

 

I interpret the "go online once every 24 hours" thing as a combination of background system updates and also checking for channel guide information for the TV functions.  The only other alternative would be if it downloaded that information whenever you boot the system up and go online, which may create a slight delay and be a hassle for people.



#53 of 126 Russell G

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Posted May 24 2013 - 06:43 AM


Russell G - How does the PS4 seem less impressive?  The features MS is showing are basically the ones that HTPCs, WebTV, and your current cable box have had for years (going to the 90s for some higher-end stuff).  The PS4 is, on paper, technically superior to the Xbox One.  Also, look at the streaming options available on PS3 compared to the 360; it blows MS away and this will continue in the next generation.  Literally, the only thing MS has shown that the PS3 doesn't have is the TV controlling stuff which I don't think will be that huge or great.

 

 

PS4 seemed less impressive purely in a superficial way. PS4 showed a bunch of sharing things that I don;t care about and some game that look like prettier versions of games I already play. Xbox1 has speech recognition, a Kinect that can supposedly read your heart rate and other things that seem more futuristic. that's all. Obviously we wont know until we see how things run. I think the PS3 is supposed to be better under the hood than the 360, but as all us SKyrim players know, it's a bit pants in the game department.


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#54 of 126 Aaron Silverman

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Posted May 24 2013 - 07:01 AM

This business with charging fees for lending/ reselling games and the whole concept of selling licenses to experience content as opposed to media containing content is a huge assault on the intent of copyright law in the name of media publisher profits, and I don't see many politicians who will consider the rights of consumers over the campaign donations they get from said media publishers. It will be interesting to see how this plays in countries other than the US, where in most cases copyright law hasn't become quite so bastardized.

 

It may sound huffy, but it is a fact. We are headed down a very disturbing road here. The only bright spot is the fact that over time, it will be easier for independent content creators to distribute their work without going through big publishers, although the quality of independent work is not quite as high (yet) for games as it is for music and movies.

 

The idea that prices will come down to offset a lack of rentals and used games is laughable nonsense.


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#55 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 24 2013 - 07:28 AM

The idea that prices will come down to offset a lack of rentals and used games is laughable nonsense.

 

It's not a prediction, it's a hope.  Valve are very smart in how they are running Steam and Apple has had great success with App vendors moving prices to as low as 99 cents but I don't think that:

a. their successes will translate directly to the console markets

b. sony or microsoft are willing to take the lessons learned from Steam and iOS anyway

 

I'm betting against them doing so, but I'm still getting both consoles anyway.


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#56 of 126 Dave Upton

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Posted May 24 2013 - 08:36 AM

It's not a prediction, it's a hope.  Valve are very smart in how they are running Steam and Apple has had great success with App vendors moving prices to as low as 99 cents but I don't think that:

a. their successes will translate directly to the console markets

b. sony or microsoft are willing to take the lessons learned from Steam and iOS anyway

 

I'm betting against them doing so, but I'm still getting both consoles anyway.

Well said Sam. I too will own both, even though I am liking Sony's console the best, but prefer Steam over all of the above.



#57 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 24 2013 - 09:55 AM

Tuning in now, not expecting any revelations since it would have hit on Monday:

https://soundcloud.c...hitecture-panel

 

Edit:  Confirmed Gigabit Ethernet which I missed on first go.


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#58 of 126 Sam Posten

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:10 AM

A must read:
http://blazehedgehog...-one-used-games
 
Too much to quote but I will use this part:
 
 

An Xbox 360 game, on the other hand, starts at $60 for the basic version, up to $100-$150+ for so-called the “collectors edition”, and until the birth of the Season Pass, that $150 CE could possibly involve another $20-$50 in future downloadable content. This didn’t start out as a response to the burgeoning Used Game market, it was the cause.


The existence of the Used Games market isn’t my problem, it’s my solution. If the game industry wants to stop the Used Game market from existing, twisting a consumer’s arm isn’t the way to go about doing it. Publishers could be fighting the Used Game market RIGHT NOW, by lowering prices on games. They aren’t doing that, and clearly have no intention to start. Steam and iTunes thwarted piracy by making the act of buying their content as cheap and as painless as possible. Microsoft is just putting up more walls.


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#59 of 126 Aaron Silverman

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Posted May 24 2013 - 10:47 AM

The used game market isn't "burgeoning;" it's been active for decades.

 

But the author's point about fighting piracy by making legitimate commerce cheap and painless is spot on.

 

EDIT: I read the whole article. For the most part, good stuff.


Edited by Aaron Silverman, May 24 2013 - 10:54 AM.

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#60 of 126 Morgan Jolley

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Posted May 24 2013 - 12:03 PM

I just read that Amazon UK's charts show the Wii U jumped from #390 to #40 following the announcement of the Xbox One.  This either means there was a great sale on Amazon or people decided they'd rather buy a Wii U now than an Xbox One or PS4 in the fall.  Interesting.

 

First, Sony's stock jumps nearly 10% after the Xbox One announcement, though that's mainly because of rumors that they will spin off their entertainment division from the hardware business.  Second, the Wii U's sales jump.  What is going on right now?







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