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Adding more subwoofers....


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#1 of 6 OFFLINE   Oldschool1

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Posted May 11 2013 - 02:05 PM

I would like some expert opinions to adding more subwoofers to my system.  My room is somewhat of a challenge acoustically but what I have sounds pretty darn good so far.  What I am trying to accomplish is filling the room with better/more bass.  See my room layout.  Scale is 1 square = 1 foot.  Front speakers are Paradigm Signature S2's, center channel is Paradigm CC-490, surrounds are Paradigm Studio 20 V5 and sub is REL T-9.  To further describe the room, behind the sofa is all mirror, to the left of the sofa is floor to ceiling wall to wall glass covered with vinyl vertical blinds closed anytime music or movies are playing, behind the TV is flat wall, fireplace is covered with textured rock and to the right of the sofa is open to the rest of the room.  Ceiling height in the living room is 10 ft and rest of the condo 8 ft.

The speaker placement is pretty good working around the rooms characteristics but the sub is what I'm working on.  The REL T-9 is in the corner behind the television  and front left speaker provides some really nice bass.  It fills the room nicely.  What I want to accomplish is more even bass throughout the room.  My thought is to add another REL T-9 and locate them on either side next to the sofa and add another higher output sub behind the television and left front speaker to output lower frequency information.  Using the high level connection on the REL for L&R channels will provide the musical blend for sure and low level for LFE gives the extra for HT. With the aid of a higher output sub behind the television and left front speaker it would be the icing on the cake I believe.  Thought about using a REL R-528 for this since it could be connected the same way using the high level and LFE connections.  I really love the musicality of the T-9 and for HT it does a nice job so I think complimenting it with a twin, moving them either side of the sofa and something higher output opposite behind the left front speaker would be complete.  My thinking is using the same manufacturers product things would blend easier and better than mixing and matching.  Otherwise I would only use a different brand for the behind the television (higher output) sub.

I have read hundreds of reviews and toyed with ideas like the Paradigm Seismic 110 which I have auditioned and wow does it put out some punch!  Another to consider are the Rythmik F15HP.  They really make a beautiful piece of furniture and they spec out impressively!

I need some opinions since this decision is an expensive one and I'd rather do it rite the first time cause selling and rebuying gets expensive!!!

 

Comments please???

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#2 of 6 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted May 14 2013 - 07:10 AM

I had moved one of my Hsu subs to a second zone and boy did I miss that second sub in zone 1!   By the next movie both subs were back in zone 1 and I guess that goes to show that once you go dual subs youll never want to go back.

 

In my opinion room correction (bass management) is the biggest consideration when incorporating dual subs.  And to that end...

 

Ive owned processors that, if your room correction is enabled, your crossover settings are locked and not user adjustable.  Just remember that your mains must receive full range and then crossover is set at the sub if you go this route.  Personally, I wouldnt do this.  Id rather split a single  LFE out from the processor to dual subs and only use these subs as true LFE subs.  I suppose if I had some extra unused subs sitting around I might supplement mains but I would still see the effect of feeding them LFE first and then see the effect when using them with my mains.   

 

Will your processor support true dual sub calibration? And Im not talking just dual outputs like many Onkyo receivers have,  nope those faux-dual sub outputs are, in reality,  linked together and does not allow for independent dual sub calibration as the outputs might imply.  I think Audyssey XT32 equipped AVRs, and some versions of Yamaha's room correction, support true dual sub outputs.

 

Personally, I think both the Rythmik and Paradigm you are considering are overpriced.  Yes theyre good subs but I think the value verses performance that you get from Hsu, Outlaw and SVS and the like trumps all others.  Matter of fact, as long as you are looking at subs with good amp power (1000+ watts dynamic), and good frequency response (18 Hz and below),  then youre looking at the right subs.  Im just throwing numbers out here but I know I would much rather spend $1500 on a pair of 18 Hz subs than $1500 on a single 16 Hz sub!


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

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#3 of 6 OFFLINE   Oldschool1

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Posted May 14 2013 - 11:13 AM

My AVR is an Integra 50.3 and it only has a dual sub output but as you mentioned its basically a parallel provided with the  same signal.  With the research I have done it looks as though my best alternative is to go with REL as I already have one I am very happy with.  I think I mentioned before the benefit of brand compatability.  I consulted with my local HT store who confirmed the REL R-528 would "hands down" be better than the Paradigm Seismic 110 for accuracy and punch for LFE and for music of course that's what REL is known for.  The first thing I intend to try is getting a second REL T-9 and locate them on either side of the sofa.

What I'm experiencing now by having one sub (REL T-9) behind the front left speaker is good bass however from my seating position I'm not "in it".  Kinda hard to explain.  The bass is pressurizing the room but I don't feel like I'm "in it".  Last night watching Jurassic Park I noticed it.  When the dinosaurs walked I could hear and feel it but not like I was there.  Sorry for being so wordy..



#4 of 6 OFFLINE   Type A

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Posted May 14 2013 - 01:40 PM

What are you looking to spend on this T-9 cause the best price Im seeing is $1200.

 

If thats the case I really hope that you seriously look at the $600-$700 price range of the manufactures I mentioned in my post above.   I have a sub sitting in my living room that was, literally, half the price of the T-9. Mine reaches all the way down to 18 Hz and very likely hits with much greater authority than your existing T-9 sub woofer.  I totally understand your desire to match your existing sub.  However the irony is that for what you will spend on a second T-9 can you get a new pair of subs that will reach lower and hit harder than the T-9 (after all, thats what a sub is all about isnt it?). 

 

Two models that I hope you take the time to research:

 

SVS SB12

Hsu VTF 2 MK 4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


JVC DLA-RS60U3D & DaLite High Power 106"
Paradigm Studio V.5 20 (5) & ADP590 (2)  
Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (2) & MBM-12 MK2 (2)

Yamaha RX-A3010 & Emotiva XPA5
Oppo BDP93 & Darbee DVP 5000

*My Home Theater Photo Journal*

#5 of 6 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted May 14 2013 - 01:48 PM

"What I'm experiencing now by having one sub (REL T-9) behind the front left speaker is good bass however from my seating position I'm not "in it". Kinda hard to explain. The bass is pressurizing the room but I don't feel like I'm "in it". Last night watching Jurassic Park I noticed it. When the dinosaurs walked I could hear and feel it but not like I was there. Sorry for being so wordy.."

 

I'm far from a subwoofer expert but it sounds like a room acoustics problem. I was going to put a pair a good large tower speakers in my bedroom (about 12' from the listenning position) but when I set it all up the low end was severly lacking. when I got 6'-8' from the speakers the bass came alive. The same setup in my family room absolutely rocked from 16'-17' away. Bad acoustics in the bedroom.

 

I use two smaller Dayton 10" subs under each end table and I can "feel" the bass even at lower volume which keeps me in good graces with the neighbors. But it's not an ideal situation as those setting in other than the sweet spot get too much or too little of the effect.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#6 of 6 OFFLINE   BryanZ

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Posted May 14 2013 - 05:11 PM

I would add dual Outlaw LFM1-EX, dual Power Sound Audio XV15s, the Funk Audio 15.0 and the SVS PB13-ULTRA to the mix.

 

You may be able to pick up a good used sub through the AVSForum classifieds as well, including a couple of Rythmik FV15HP subs.

 

Hard to go wrong with any of those subs. Couldn't hurt to email those companies and get their opinions of the best choice of sub for you and where you should place it.They want your business and want you to be completely satisified with your purchase. 

 

Whichever sub you end up purchasing, I hope you will be happy with it and never have any regrets for many years to come.






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