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Sound Trouble Switching from Yamaha RX-V465 to RX-V673 and Newbie Questions


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#1 of 7 OFFLINE   dantric

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Posted May 09 2013 - 10:46 AM

Hello there, I was hoping to get some help/guidance with my home theater...obviously since i am posting here :P ..

 

Everything is connected and works fine, but the sound seems...off to me. I can't seem to figure out where the problem lies, or maybe in my old age i just can't hear as well haha. I had a Yamaha RX V465 which worked fine (and still works fine), for about 4 years. I did the YPAO and left it, i think i increased the db on the subwoofer but otherwise i left it how YPAO set everything, and it sounded fine, although the bass was maybe a little heavy, walls, pictures rattled at about -20db, normal TV viewing was -25db.

 

Anyway, I recently upgraded to the Yamaha RX V673 (because I have a 3D TV and wanted the 3D Video switching) and got a whole slough of new features! However after I ran the YPAO, the -25db for standard TV viewing was quieter than -25db on the 465. I usually have to have TV viewing on about -22, Blu-rays around -18db, and DVD's about the same. Oddly enough gaming from the PS3 or Xbox 360 sounds great on -25db.

 

This got me to doing some research on YPAO, setting things manually using Parametric EQ (scary stuff in there), setting the subwoofer to the right crossover etc etc. All of which became very overwhelming, full of terminology I'm not really familair with. Now I have loud speaking volume coming from the center channel, the front left and right speakers seem ok...but im not sure how they are "supposed" to sound, and the 2 rear surrounds seem quieter. The subwoofer is a constant battle, for that "full" sound (i once got some advice from someone that you should "feel" bass rather than "hear" it) without shaking the house down.

 

Ok so now for what I have (im not sure what settings you guys would like but ill provide more if needed):

 

Yamaha RX V673

sub crossover 120KHz (i may have changed it to 110)

Speakers set to small except the center channel... I left it at large.

 

Ok the speakers. They are old, about 4 years old. I did no research when I walked into Visions and started looking at home theater equipment...not a mistake I will make again, no research or going to Visions.

 

 

From hd.ca as the speakers are no longer availabe from manufacturer

 

Sinclair Brighton Series Speakers

Front Left and Right (Loud speakers?)

 

Sinclair BT26 2.5 Way, Double 6.5 inch Driver Tower Speaker with DALtech Sound Damping


    [*]Woofers: Dual 6.5 inch Woven Fiberglass Hybrid
    [*]Tweeter: 1 inch Polymer Integrated Soft Dome
    [*]Midrange: 6.5 inch Woven Fiberglass Hybrid
    [*]Impedance: 8 Ohms
    [*]Sensitivity: 91dB
    [*]Power Handling: 200 Watts
    [*]Frequency Response: 40Hz-20kHz
    [/list]

    Center Channel:

    Sinclair bc26 3-Way, Dual 6.5 inch center channel speaker:


      [*]Woofers: 6.5 inch Woven Fiberglass Hybrid
      [*]Tweeter: 1" Polymer Integrated Soft Dome
      [*]Midrange: 3"Woven Fiberglass Hybride
      [*]Impedance: 8 Ohms
      [*]Sensitivity: 90dB
      [*]Power Handling: 200 Watts
      [*]Frequency Response: 50Hz-20kHz
      [/list]

      Left and Right Surrounds:

      Sinclair B14 Brighton 2-Way, 4 inch bookshelf loudspeaker:


        [*]Woofers: 4" Woven Fiberglass Hybrid
        [*]Tweeter: 1" Polymer Integrated Soft Dome
        [*]Impedance: 8 Ohms
        [*]Sensitivity: 88dB
        [*]Power Handling: 100 Watts
        [*]Frequency Response: 60Hz-20kHz
        [*]Accessories:Wall brackets included
        [/list]

        Subwoofer:

        Sinclair SW103 Triple 10 inch Powered Subwoofer:


          [*]Active Woofer: Front Firing 10" PolyCel woofer
          [*]Passive Radiators: Dual 10" Side Firing Depth Drivers
          [*]Enclosure Type: Sealed
          [*]Amplifier Power: 250 Watts
          [*]Frequency Response: 30Hz-150kHz
          [*]Crossover Control: Electronic - Presets for Tower, Bookshelf and Micro/Satellite Speakers
          [*]LFE setting for receiver crossover control.
          [*]Volume Control: variable Electronic
          [*]Control Locations: Conveniently located on the top of the cabinet
          [/list]

          Controls on Sub Posted Image

           

           

          PS3 functions as gaming system, DVD's and Blu-rays, HDMI connected. Cable box and Xbox 360 are also HDMI connected.

           

           

          The instructions say to use the LFE setting on the Subwoofer if you want to use the receivers crossover, i have never done this, does anyone know if this is advisable? Also, opinions on the speakers are welcome...i do like them, but then, I'm not really an audiophile, I just want nice clear, as close to movie theater sound as I can get, without breaking the bank.

           

          For reference, the layout of the speakers is..not ideal, but the speakers have to fit the room and there is the WAF as well. Subwoofer is actually in the corner, under an end table, with the couch on one side and love seat on the other :angry: about 10ft from the receiver/TV.

           

          the TLDR: Given the above equipment, why would I be experiencing lower sound at the the same db level as the previous recevier, and any tips on setting crossover, using YPAO, speaker settings (small vs large), Parametric EQ, etc or a place where I can learn such things.

           

          Thanks! :D



#2 of 7 OFFLINE   mpompey

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Posted May 10 2013 - 11:15 AM

Welcome to the forum. I'll try to answer your questions:

 

First thing, get a RadioShack SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meter to check

your measurements. Usually run around $25 - $30. The human ear is

not designed for making highly accurate assessments of sound volume.

 

It is not uncommon for a new receiver to sound completely different at the same

volume level as the previous speaker. I had this happen when I switched from 

a Yamaha RX-v1500 to the RX-V1800. My previous volume settings on the 1500

were around -25dB where the setting on the 1800 was at -21dB to get the

same level in the SPL meter. Not intuitive, but it happens.

 

First thing, run YPAO again. After it has finished don't touch any of the EQ settings

leave those alone. But I would modify a couple of things:

 


    [*]Your sub crossover setting looks too high, I would move that down to 80 Hz
    [/list]

     


      [*]Set all your speakers to small regardless of their size. This just tells the receiver to route all of their low frequency sound to your subwoofer.
      [/list]

       


        [*]As far as speaker recommendation, what size room are you in? What percentage of use is for movies vs music vs TV? There are alot of options out there. I for one love Axiom speakers. But Klipsch and Paradigm make some quality speakers as well.
        [/list]

         

        Start here and let us know how things work out

         



#3 of 7 OFFLINE   dantric

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Posted May 10 2013 - 11:34 AM

Great! Thanks! The sub was at 80Hz before i started thinking I knew what I was doing hahaa.

 

You would think I would know the size of the room...it's certainly not huge...ill have to measure and get back to you on that one. In terms of use, music is very infrequent (1%), TV is probably 85% and movies (blu-ray or HD on demand feeds) the other like 14%

 

Any advice on the subwoofer control panel thing. I know the image is hard to read but the "eq" settings are 50Hz-140Hz, 40Hz-100Hz, 30Hz-80Hz and LFE - from left to right.

 

Thanks for the advice, I'll tweak those settings tonight.



#4 of 7 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted May 10 2013 - 01:58 PM

Put the sub on LFE. Your AVR is controlling the bass. 

 

Matter of fact, set the sub on LFE and re-run the YPAO.


Edited by schan1269, May 10 2013 - 01:59 PM.


#5 of 7 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted May 10 2013 - 02:00 PM

YPAO may have set the individual speaker volums a bit higher on the 465 then it did on the 673. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

You should also set the Center speaker to Small.

 

YPAO should be able to set the internal eq fairly acurrately

 

If you connect the subwoofer to the receiver with a coaxial cable then use the LFE setting on the subwoofer. This will allow the receiver to handle the crossover setting and bass management which is the preferred method.

 

I also suggest you re-run YPAO following the directions in the manual a closely as possible. The room needs to be whisper-quiet in order for it to work right. Double-check the settings for speaker size and crossover and change them to Small and 80 or 100 hz. You can also re-adjust the individual speaker and subwoofer volumes slightly if you need to. Most people increase the volume on the sub, center and/or surrounds. But keep the changes moderate if at all possible. These automatic setup programs get speaker distances and volumes pretty spot-on.  

 

We don't seem ti have Sinclair speakers here in the US or maybe I just run across them yet. But they seem like decent speakers and shouldn't require too much power to play fairly loud.

 

In all reality the 673 should perform as well or better than the 465.


Edited by gene c, May 10 2013 - 02:02 PM.

"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#6 of 7 OFFLINE   dantric

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Posted May 10 2013 - 04:38 PM

Awesome! Thanks everyone! set the sub to LFE, then re-ran YPAO, huge difference. set all the speakers to small, the sub was given a crossover of 100Hz, so I split the difference and set it to 90Hz. the sub db level was set to the lowest volume -10db...I won't know if that's good or not until I watch something tonight...I figure that has more to do with its placement.I assume from this point on it's all really personal preference?

#7 of 7 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted May 10 2013 - 05:15 PM

Yes, personal preference. As I said earlier, many members up the volume on the sub (to feel the boom) and/or the center (to hear the dialog) and sometimes the surrounds as well.

 

It may have set the sub's volume to -10 because the volume knob on the sub itself was a set little too high.


"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 





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