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Designing New Home Theater


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#1 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 17 2013 - 03:24 AM

I am looking at building a new home and I am looking at building a dedicated home theatre room (5mx6m).I have a technical background but I don't know as much as I would like to know about designing a good home theatre, so I would like some help from others that are really switched on to this sort of stuff.

I am currently using a Yamaha AVR that is about 7 years old. With Jamo bookshelf speakers and a Yamaha Sub. I'm not going to go and get all the details on these as its not that important.

So far the only thing that I am swayed towards are the Paradigm Studio 100's and matching Center. Looking at Monitor series 7 surround 3 bi-directional and was possibly looking at some fill in speakers at the front, (depending on what people have to say on that). I was pretty impressed with this mobs setup that I checked just before Xmas http://www.bigpictur...wood-pack-3-3d/.

As far as all the other stuff, I don't know enough about what is on the market to even follow a particular path. I like quality equipment without being ridiculous. I have always approached selection of my AV equipment that if my eyes or ears can't pick the difference by spending more money then I don't.

One of the AVR's I have been looking at is the AVENTAGE series. I think this has the adroid app to control the amp which is a nice feature. I want Internet radio. I like the feature of 2 HDMI outs. Not sure if I will use it but as I am building it may be handy for a setup in the Alfreso area.

I have know idea on projectors. The 4K video has been floated passed me but from what I have been reading it appears that there will still be some time until this is fully supported.

I will leave it at that for now but I will also want to discuss with you guys about room isolation and different ideas on running my cables as it will probably be in the bottom storey of a two storey house.

Also thinking about Ethernet cabling through the house as well as possibly some home automation, but the main thing at this stage is the design of the theatre room

 

Regards

 

Wayne



#2 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted April 17 2013 - 03:46 AM

Is all the gear going to be hidden, out in the open?Are you wanting speaker wires hidden?As for "internet device", nothing beats a computer. Acer Aspire are meant just for this. Lenovo makes them as well. Given a choice, most here would forgo a smart TV and use a BD player or Roku/ATV.

#3 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 17 2013 - 11:08 PM

Is all the gear going to be hidden, out in the open?
[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Haven't really thought much about this but I'm thinking it will probably be built into the wall with a glass door. I don't want distracting lighting in the room so it will probably be at the back of the room.[/color]

Are you wanting speaker wires hidden?

Speaker wires will be run in the walls. Like I said its important that I get all this right as being a two storey I won't be able to jump up in the roof and drop cabling down the walls, especially the internal walls. The other thing is that I was shown a setup where there were two more speakers on the wall at the front as a fill for the stage. Does this make that much difference or am I just looking at buying two more speakers for nothing.

As for "internet device", nothing beats a computer. Acer Aspire are meant just for this. Lenovo makes them as well. Given a choice, most here would forgo a smart TV and use a BD player or Roku/ATV.

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]I'll check that gear out. Hadn't even thought of going down that path. That's the sort of info I'm looking for. I am more than happy for people to throw ideas in as one thing with technology is it is ever evolving and it is hard to think of every scenario that you may want for down the track.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Thanks. That's a great start.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Regards[/color]

 

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Wayne[/color]
[/quote]



#4 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted April 18 2013 - 03:47 AM

By the way, meant Acer Revo...not Aspire.Extra speakers "up front" is either height or width. Pioneer and Yamaha have proprietary systems. There is also DPL IIz and Aud DSX.I use height im my main theater and width in the living room. It is a personal choice which way you run it...and some AVR let connect both and switch on the fly. The Denon AVR4311 lets you run them together. Yanaha even has Rear Presence on the RX-A3010.

#5 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 18 2013 - 05:05 AM

By the way, meant Acer Revo...not Aspire.

 

Extra speakers "up front" is either height or width. Pioneer and Yamaha have proprietary systems. There is also DPL IIz and Aud DSX.

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]I'll check this out tomorrow.[/color]

I use height im my main theater and width in the living room. It is a personal choice which way you run it...and some AVR let connect both and switch on the fly. The Denon AVR4311 lets you run them together. Yanaha even has Rear Presence on the RX-A3010.

[color=rgb(255,0,0);]Sorry for the ignorance but is the sound much different with these extra speakers and what do you achieve with height and then width and then both. I'll have a look at these AVR's tomorrow as well. The Denon and the Yamaha are two units I had in mind. I'll have a read up on the specs and probably come back with some more questions.[/color]



#6 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted April 18 2013 - 07:13 AM

Height and width are not discrete channels...meaning they are "conjured from directional cues".Meaning, information thar directs sound(aircraft overhead)...that sound is heard from height channels. A perfect movie that uses height is The Aviator. A perfect movie for width is Immortal Beloved. Fox is heavy in directional cueing on baseball and football(meaning the crowd noise is taken out of the LCR and sent height/width/surround).

Edited by schan1269, April 18 2013 - 07:14 AM.


#7 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 18 2013 - 06:59 PM

Height and width are not discrete channels...meaning they are "conjured from directional cues".
[color=rgb(255,0,0);]So for height would you have the height speakers right beside the screen and then the front  left and right channels would be out passed them. Is there a typical position ie how high off the ground and how far from the screen, that you would position the speakers. Do you really notice that much difference with/without them. Do you have the width speakers beside you and if so how far away should they be from you so that they are not over powering. Just thinking if you don't have too much room on the sides after you put a few chairs in the room. Are these typically the dipole type speaker and then I'm guessing just normal speakers for the rear or would you use dipole there as well.[/color]

Meaning, information thar directs sound(aircraft overhead)...that sound is heard from height channels.

A perfect movie that uses height is The Aviator. A perfect movie for width is Immortal Beloved. Fox is heavy in directional cueing on baseball and football(meaning the crowd noise is taken out of the LCR and sent height/width/surround).



#8 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted April 18 2013 - 07:19 PM

http://www.audyssey..../audyssey-dsx-2

http://www.dolby.com...iz-details.html

 

Audyssey trumpets "wide before high". In my main theater...DPL IIz works best on multi-channel and Dolby(not shocking). DSX works better on DTS(again, not shocking).

 

Height is the only thing shared by Presence(Yamaha), DPL IIz and DSX.

 

Width is DSX and "Pioneer proprietary" only. I have no idea if Pioneer has some "word for it". Some Pioneer and Yamaha have DPL IIz as well(as they will never have Audyssey). I don't think Yamaha has width.

 

Sony...who cares.

 

NAD(when the revamps hit the US) finally jumped into the IIz/DSX game. Anthem, so far, has stayed out of it.


Edited by schan1269, April 18 2013 - 07:29 PM.


#9 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 18 2013 - 11:09 PM

Sam the mind is boggling now. You've certainly given me a bit of reading. Now let me get this right. We had pro logic which was pre Dolby digital, which was a pretend sort of surround sound. Then we went to Dolby Digital which was 5.1 independent tracks being sent to 5 speakers and a sub. Now we have pro logic again that by the description sounds like it works even better than dolby digital without the individual tracks, which means everyday tv would be amazing. Am I somewhere or nowhere understanding this.

 

So from my last post the height speakers would be in the same vertical plane as my fronts, but by the diagram the width speakers would also be at the front and not beside me. Need to do some more reading.

 

Thanks



#10 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted April 19 2013 - 03:37 AM

Creating height/width is sorta the same as creating 7.1 from 5.1. But given enough channels...you can do 9.1. So yeah, you can listen to 5.1 DD and have it expanded using IIx and IIz together.Same with 2.0...using DPL II, IIx and IIz together. Your AVR will cycle through all the available sound modes...given the content you are viewing.

#11 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted April 19 2013 - 04:15 AM

I didn't realise how out of touch I was. All these new terms. I have been busily reading and the more I read the more I realise there is a lot I didn't know. Anyway that just means a bit of a learning curve. Got another one for you. I read in one of the threads about LCR speakers. I had a bit of an idea what this was about but in all honesty I'm thinking in most setups you would be hardpressed to pick the difference between say a dedicated LCR speaker system and a good quality L, R and C. I've listened to a setup like I said at the start of the thread which were Paradigm Studio 100's and a CC690 Center, and these totally blew me away. I am swaying towards this setup, but in all honesty I haven't looked at much else. What do you think and what else should I look at. So many decisions and so much good gear out there.

Back to what we were talking about with the ProLogic. Looks like I'll have to get back down to one of the Home Theater people in Melbourne and get them to show me through the functions of the amps, then I'll have a clearer understanding and will be hopefully on some sort of level to discuss it further with you.

Gee 9 replies and I haven't even got into any of the other gear. I hope you're a patient person cause I ask a lot of questions.

 

Regards

 

Wayne



#12 of 16 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted April 22 2013 - 06:29 PM

The two basic questions for me were: what surround setups would my room allow? And for my budget, do I put my money into more speakers or better speakers? There's not a right answer, just personal preference.

#13 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted May 03 2013 - 05:42 AM

Well back again. Checked out a couple of theatre setups yesterday from a dedicated home theatre store. I posed the question of the use of presence speakers and what I was told was that they had only setup two systems with presence speakers. The guy explained it to me like what you had Sam and that was you could hear a helicopter going over the top of you but said it didn't always work as they were not dedicated channels. His view was just save your money and stick with what is proven at the moment like 5.1, 7.1 etc.

I'm thinking now I will probably setup a 7.1 system in a 6 x 5m room and I'll just leave some speaker cables in the walls for future connection when the presence speakers become dedicated tracks.

So  far I believe I am pretty well settled on the Paradigm 100 studio's, CC690 center, SUB 15 and I think the Surround 1's. These surrounds are not the matching units that go with the studios but they had them setup with the Studio 100's and I really couldn't tell any difference. They sounded great. Not too sure what the maximum amount of power that is sent to your surrounds and they are just trying to envelop you in the sound without taking the focus away from the image at the front.

What are your thoughts on these speakers versus the Studio ADP 590.

Now cabling. I have read a couple of posts that you have put up in regards to cable manufacturers putting out a lot of confusing hype to sell very expensive cables. I have had a number of salesman try to convince me that you must get these proven high quality cables. My view is first off the cross section is very important and the copper must be OFC to minimise losses. The only other losses I can think of is caused by inductive or capacitive reactance set up by ac signals, but once again I don't know if the ear picks any of this up. Open to your explanation on the importance of these losses and if they really matter. I have a cable supplier that does no-name copper or he also has other cables that he said come out of the same factories that monster and others produce their cables and he has pushed for a long time to not waste my money on these over inflated cables. Once again I go by the theory if the ear can't pick the difference then it is only there in theory.

Now for projectors and screens. I have been directed to Sony LCOS projector as these guys believe at the $5000 level that this is the best option to go for. The other being DLP was recommended for the higher end like $20000 or more. Well I'm definitely not looking at spending that sort of money. JVC was the other recommendation. I think most of the time I will be watching movies in a dark room and football/other sport. On other occasions I will probably watch the football with the curtains drawn to let in light into the room during the day. The light won't be direct. It will only be direct sunlight early in the morning up until about 9 or 10 so the sun won't be directly on the screen.

Anyway that should be enough for now to get some more answers for me to ponder over.

 

Regards

 

Wayne



#14 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted May 03 2013 - 09:15 AM

Height/width will never become dedicated tracks.

 

I also never said it worked "on all content". It never will.

 

I use height in one theater, width in the other.

 

Both make a remarkable difference on 90% of my content. What content does it "always not work on"?

 

Movies/television made before 1977.

 

So far, for me...unless I'm watching something that isn't "soundtrack driven"...it works.

 

So...TV/movies where it has made a difference...

 

Fox hockey/football/baseball(including college)

NBA(doesn't matter what channel)

Star Trek TNG/Movies(but not OS)

Battlestar Gallactica(all series)

Star Wars(all versions, included animated)

Curious Case of Benjamin Button(this movie, if a favorite, by itself...ALONE is worth doing width)

Immortal Beloved(by itself is worth doing width)

Das Boot(height)

U571(crap movie...great sound effects in height)

Transformers(all and makes no difference if you do height or width)

 

The list goes on but I don't feel like typing for an hour.



#15 of 16 OFFLINE   ozgecho

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Posted May 04 2013 - 07:27 PM

Sam just curious, do you have two cinemas set up in your home or is this a demo cinema in a shop.

 

Thanks for that extra info on the height and width.

 

Repeating myself here but I would like your view/help on what you think of this speaker setup.

So  far I believe I am pretty well settled on the Paradigm 100 studio's, CC690 center, SUB 15 and I think the Surround 1's. These surrounds are not the matching units that go with the studios but they had them setup with the Studio 100's and I really couldn't tell any difference. They sounded great. Not too sure what the maximum amount of power that is sent to your surrounds and they are just trying to envelop you in the sound without taking the focus away from the image at the front.

What are your thoughts on these speakers versus the Studio ADP 590.

 

Thanks

 

Wayne



#16 of 16 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted May 05 2013 - 06:29 AM

I don't own any Paradigm. Don't know anybody with them either. I have heard them in stores. I also tend to ignore speakers that are tiny. My smallest speaker in any of my theaters is the Polk S6...not counting centers. Except for height/width, all the speakers in my theaters are all towers.I have 4 theaters in the house. Dedicated projector/plasma in the basement with an Onkyo NR1008 running 9 BIC V-series(not to be confused with the Amazon DV) in height.Living room Onkyo SR707 running DCM TF 5.1 + width(width are DCM KX. Currently doing a review for SVS though)Office with Integra DTR 7.8 running Infinity Crescendo set up perfectly for SACD/DVD-A.Master bedroom with Integra DTR 5.8 and a smattering of various 20yo Polk.




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