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Game of Thrones Season 4 (news and episodes discussion)


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#1 of 299 OFFLINE   oscar_merkx

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Posted April 04 2013 - 12:44 AM

Hi Here is a dedicated thread for Season 4 news http://insidetv.ew.c....ageID=20470532  

Quote:

It is known: HBO’s Game of Thrones will continue its epic tale into a fourth season. The network just renewed the show for 10 episodes to premiere next year. The announcement was expected. Thrones returned to series-high ratings on Sunday night and stands as the network’s biggest current moneymaker. The show’s annual production cost (north of $55 million per season) is offset by strong international and DVD sales. If ratings trends for Thrones and HBO’s top-rated True Blood continue this year, Thrones could replace the vampire drama as the network’s most-popular show. Creative details for the fourth season have not been announced, but Thrones is expected to primarily use material from back half of the lengthy third book in George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire saga, A Storm of Swords, as well as pull in content from other novels in the series.

 


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#2 of 299 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted June 14 2013 - 05:20 PM

Production on the fourth season will begin in July.Entertainment Weekly: 'Game of Thrones' team on series future: 'There is a ticking clock' -- EXCLUSIVE

#3 of 299 OFFLINE   Rex Bachmann

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Posted June 23 2013 - 02:48 AM

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]I've avoided the Game of Thrones threads, since I don't subscribe to premium cable and haven't yet seen or read details about season 3 and don't want to know in advance what happens there.  I'll try to wait for the discs.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]I've got a question for the Brits (or other connoisseurs of British etiquette).  Why don't the characters address and refer to the kings, queens, and princelings as "Majesty" or "Highness"?  What's up with the "Your Grace"-bit?[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]I thought that title was reserved for archbishops (and "dukes"?).  What am I missing?[/font]


"Delenda est . . . . "

 


#4 of 299 OFFLINE   Charlie Campisi

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Posted June 23 2013 - 06:07 AM

I think what you might be missing is that the story does not occur in Great Britain, but I'm just a silly American. :)



#5 of 299 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted June 23 2013 - 06:29 AM

I think it has something to do with Henry VIII as I think Kings and Queens were called Your Grace before him. Probably something to do with the shift from Catholicism to Protestant. I believe Kings and Queens of Scotland were also called Your Grace before the Union



#6 of 299 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted June 23 2013 - 06:49 AM

It's a fantasy world, not earth. We don't call bastards snow, flowers or hill either. We don't have dragon, wraiths, or telepathy.Etc.

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#7 of 299 OFFLINE   Josh Dial

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Posted June 23 2013 - 07:06 AM

I think it has something to do with Henry VIII as I think Kings and Queens were called Your Grace before him. Probably something to do with the shift from Catholicism to Protestant. I believe Kings and Queens of Scotland were also called Your Grace before the Union

 

This is roughly correct.

 

Nowadays, "Your Majesty" works.  Heck, our current Queen (of Canada) allows for "Ma'am."



#8 of 299 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted June 23 2013 - 07:30 AM

There are also some made up titles here and there. You can't hear the difference, but knights in the novels are addressed as "Ser" rather than "Sir". It took me a while to get used to that because it seemed like such a random change. But it really drove home that this was not our history.

#9 of 299 OFFLINE   Rex Bachmann

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Posted June 25 2013 - 01:41 PM

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Post #3:[/font]
 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Why don't the characters address and refer to the kings, queens, and princelings as "Majesty" or "Highness"?  What's up with the "Your Grace"-bit?[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]I thought that title was reserved for archbishops (and "dukes"?).  What am I missing?[/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Charlie Campisi wrote (post #4):[/font]

 

 

[color=#8b4513;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]. . . . I'm just a silly American. :)[/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]That part I'm sure you got right. [/font] <_<

 

 

 

 

[color=#8b4513;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]I think what you might be missing is that the story does not occur in Great Britain . . . .[/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Oh, please!  And I think you might be—no, I'm sure of it—you are indulging in flippant dishonesty.

We went through this kind of disingenuous nonsense with Children of Dune (2003) and Earthsea (2004), back in the day.

This issue always comes up when discussing Hollywood's attempts to present "interior perspectives" on invented foreign cultures.[/font]


[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]This series (and, no doubt, the books it is based upon) is awash in Briticisms, Celtic and Germanic all mixed up.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Their [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]"common language", as they call it, [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]sounds a whole lot like British English to me, even down to the point of having[/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"] convernient parallels to real-world [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]dialects: Hiberno-English, highlands-Scottish, Yorkish, etc.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]The lessons Tywin Lannister gives to Arya about addressing her betters, e.g., "my lord" (upper class speech) vs. m'lord (lower class), are instructive (double entendre intended!); he sure ain't teaching her where to insert the definite article to render vocative address, à la française.[/font]
 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]A  goodly number of place or personal names scream "I'm British (under the mask)!":[/font]
 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]—Dornish (in the south) for Cornish
Andal invaders  =  Angle(s) (as in Anglo-Saxons; "Horsa and Hengist", anyone?)
—Lord Umber (as in Northumberland?)
Greyjoy recalls the name of the historical Grey family (as in "Lady Jane Grey") that was repeatedly in the lead in rebellions against the English monarchy.
 —Lannister sounds to me suspiciously like the Standard British English (SBE) pronunciation of Lancaster, while the name Sta[color=#dda0dd;]rk[/color], of course, recalls Yo[color=#dda0dd;]rk[/color].  ("War of the Roses", anyone?)[/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]—Welshish elements: the names  Tywin and Tyrion, and Targaryen (whose English pronunciation, at lest, sounds [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]like the Old the Welsh -(i)on ending (cf. Mabinogion), [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]even if differing [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]in spelling); not to mention the Arthurian and dragon associations. (Go check out the "national" flag of Wales, smart guy.)
Joffrey, "the first of his name", a frenchified Frankish (i.e., Germanic in origin) name reminds of the Normans.[/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]—The Northmen, who want to be—[ahem!]—"scot-free" in their own homeland, bear the "burr" in their speech and seem often to be played by Scottish actors (such as Messrs. Madden and Stahl).[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Independent of language, per se:[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]—The Wildlings (descendants of "the First Men") evoke the historical Picts ("the painted ones", the pre-Scottish aboriginal population of Scotland)[/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]—The Wall recalls, of course, Hadrian's Wall in northern England (near the "Neck"), the Romans' defensive northern border[/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"], if not the actual border, [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"] for their province in Britain.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]The social institutions, customs, and features on display: the primogeniture, the class-system,  the open nepotism and clannishness (appointing relatives all over the place; campaigns of vengeance for blood relations, vel sim.),  [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]the display of head trophies of the defeated (a [color=#008000;]Celtic[/color] specialty brought to prominence with the coming of the Celtic Tudors to the throne[/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"] of England); the paganism-to-(so-called)-monotheïsm theme: the many gods of the aboriginals to be replaced by the few ("The 7") of the conquerors and then by the One.
 [/font]
[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]This stew of history and culture all adds up to a (fictionalized) version of medieval (semi-pagan) Britain.
 [/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]And, it should not escape any interested party's notice that the shape of "Westeros" on the provided maps looks uncannily like that of Great Britain (at least to me).  (I know the author has claimed that undepicted northern regions are supposed to be something like the size of Greenland, but them we don't get to see.)[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Yes, they call it "Westeros"—hey, it's in the west. Why not?—, but that is just a mask.  The parallels here are too numerous, and too naked, for this land to be mistaken for anything other than Britain (to anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of British terrain or British history, that is).[/font]  [font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]It's only a name change, nothing (or very little) else.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]And, so—riddle me this—from where the hell else would the primary intended audiences, the Anglophone and mostly Brit-descended parts of the world, get their model of "nobility", anyway?  Even if one could imagine an "international" cast of native-English-speaking actors, say, with American (Northeastern, Midwestern, Southern, Western, or Californian!), Canadian, South African, or Ozzie/Kiwi accents, those actors would still have to "play British" to be taken seriously as nobility, or be laughed off of the screen, wouldn't they?[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]None of those countries or cultures has any independent basis for such a conception ("nobility"), since all result from (relatively) recent off-branchings of the mother culture. In the U.S. we have nothing.  Our erstwhile "legends" (or "myths", if you prefer) were shaped mostly by journalists, adventurers, and "entrepreneurs" in the Old West (late nineteenth through very early twentieth century), and have long since been destroyed by the revelation of . . . . FACTS (and some mighty unpleasant ones, at that).  And nowhere did we ever have a "nobility".
 [/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Therefore, from the clothing to the architecture (whether of huts or castles), despite the liberties given the production designers in those areas, and on to the language, here, as in Earthsea, the model is clearly British (not French, not German, not Japanese, nor Chinese), and only the disingenuous or the absolutely ignorant could deny the clear signs.[/font]

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]So, if we're going to have a discussion on the subject, let it be based upon honesty and the evidence before one's eyes and ears, not one based on flippancy and disingenuousness.[/font]

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Sam Posten wrote (post #[/font]6[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]):[/font]
 

 

 

[color=#339999;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]It's a fantasy world, not earth.[/color][/font]

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Is it Mars, then?  Or, perhaps, Venus?[/font]

 

 

 

[color=#339999;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]We don't call bastards snow, flowers or hill either. [/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Not clear what to make of this assertion, except that, since there are plenty of actual families named Snow, Flowers, or Hill, it's PATENTLY FALSE! (. . . . unless you mean to assert that only "bastards" are so surnamed in "our reälity".  Still false.  "Their reälity" we don't know about.)[/font]

 

 

 

 

[color=#339999;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]We don't have dragon, wraiths, or telepathy.[/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Not all would agree, and a few have spent much time, energy, and material resources investigating whether such things have e[/font]x[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]isted some time in the past, even if they are not present now, or whether they may [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]e[/font]x[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]ist[/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"] outside of the normal human sensory range.[/font]

 

 

 


[color=#339999;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Etc.[/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]It seems to have escaped some, but not others (such as the producers of this program), that there's a marked difference between reälity, so-called, and realism (a.k.a. versimilitude). [/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]There's a very profound difference between whether some thing posited actually e[/font]x[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]ists (or has ever [/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]e[/font]x[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]is[/font][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]ted) and whether its hypothetical presentation can inspire a "willing suspension of disbelief", however momentary, in an audience.  For the most part, these people have gotten it right.  (For the most part.)[/font]

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Simon Massey wrote (post #5): [/font]

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"][color=rgb(102,0,255);]I think it has something to do with Henry VIII as I think Kings and Queens were called Your Grace before him. Probably something to do with the shift from Catholicism to Protestant. I believe Kings and Queens of Scotland were also called Your Grace before the Union.[/color][/font]

 

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]Do you know for a fact that monarchs were addressed and referred to only as "Grace" before Henry VIII, or are you just guessing?  One can find such information in books, of course.  I thought I'd just save myself the trouble and ask people who (maybe) ought to know.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]In any event, the sort of march toward the concept of divine kingship in Western Europe might well—and probably did—proceed along the path you are suggesting.  I think that's one place where this show (and Martin's books???) probably get(s) it wrong.[color=#ff0000;]*[/color][/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]But, thanks, anyhow, for an intelligent reply.  [/font]

 

_______________________________________________

 

 

[font="'times new roman', times, serif;"][color=#ff0000;]*[/color]Yeah, I know, I know. ("So what?!?")[/font]


Edited by Rex Bachmann, June 25 2013 - 01:42 PM.

"Delenda est . . . . "

 


#10 of 299 OFFLINE   Jim_C

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Posted June 25 2013 - 04:51 PM

Wow.  That's quite the post.


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#11 of 299 OFFLINE   Josh Dial

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Posted June 25 2013 - 07:12 PM

Um, the source material's influences are not a secret.  Indeed, back in the 90s, I remember that Book 1 was often described as a loose re-telling of the War of the Roses.  Obviously that isn't completely accurate, but the implications are clear.

 

ASOIAF is not our history, but it certainly draws heavily on it (as some of the best tales are wont to do).  This is sort of an indisputable fact.



#12 of 299 ONLINE   Jeff Cooper

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Posted June 26 2013 - 08:14 AM

fic·tion[fik-shuhPosted ImagePosted Imagen] Show IPA

[color=rgb(51,51,51);]noun[/color]

[color=rgb(51,51,51);]1.[/color]
the [color=rgb(51,51,51);]class[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]of[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]literature[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]comprising[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]works[/color] of imaginative narration, [color=rgb(51,51,51);]especially[/color] in prose form.
2.
[color=rgb(51,51,51);]works[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]of[/color] this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3.
[color=rgb(51,51,51);]something[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]feigned,[/color] invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've [color=rgb(51,51,51);]all[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]heard[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]the[/color] fiction of her being in delicate health.
4.
the act of [color=rgb(51,51,51);]feigning,[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]inventing,[/color] or imagining.
5.
an imaginary thing or [color=rgb(51,51,51);]event,[/color] [color=rgb(51,51,51);]postulated[/color] for the purposes of argument or [color=rgb(51,51,51);]explanation.[/color]

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#13 of 299 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted June 26 2013 - 02:08 PM

Rex

 

As to whether I know, I can only point to learning this in school over 20 odd years ago. Im not sure how you wish me to know for a fact, just trying to answer your question. Thats what my History teacher told us :)

 

UK education system in my time tended to cover World History more than British history so I didnt spend a lot of time on it.

 

I guess since Im a Lancastrian that makes me a Lannister!!! :)


Edited by Simon Massey, June 26 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#14 of 299 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted June 26 2013 - 04:15 PM

Certainly there is a strong basis in the War of the Roses in the A Song of Ice and Fire and there are plenty of historical allusions (the Wall is basically Hadrian's Wall on steroids) but just because the story pulls a lot from British history doesn't mean that Charlie was engaging in "flippant dishonesty" for pointing out that Westeros is not Great Britain. George R.R. Martin is the author of this universe and he is free to borrow, steal, distort and ignore from real world history as he sees fit. Why do some things track with real world history and others don't? Because that's the way the author wanted it. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.Certainly neither the books nor the show owe any allegiance or deference to the history they're borrowing from. Verisimilitude requires credibility; to be credible the fictional universe needs to operate with internal consistency. It does not need to mirror the real world.

#15 of 299 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted July 05 2013 - 04:20 AM

Empire is reporting that Neil Marshall is returning to direct the fourth season finale.

#16 of 299 OFFLINE   Josh Dial

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Posted July 05 2013 - 05:21 AM

So non-readers know, Adam's link contains a major spoiler.

 

If the description of the episode is correct, it pretty much confirms my guess about what the contents of season 4, and where the season is going to end (unless the show really plays around with the timeline).



#17 of 299 OFFLINE   Charlie Campisi

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Posted July 05 2013 - 07:26 AM

My thinking about the article was the same as the first comment -- it would make more sense for that ep to be the penultimate ep of season 4 rather than the finale. They've done a great job of putting big events in ep 9 (execution of Ned, Blackwater, Red Wedding) and leaving the finale to clean up the pieces and set up the ensuing season. I thought Blackwater was shot very well, so I like the choice to bring him back.



#18 of 299 OFFLINE   Simon Massey

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Posted July 05 2013 - 10:31 AM

Every news article seems to have decided to spoil exactly what event Marshall will be directing which is a bit annoying for me, though the event in question is not really a surprise in that its obviously coming at some point. Unfortunately, some have also spoiled the outcome.Should be good, I thought he did a great job with Blackwater, especially with the moments between the action.

#19 of 299 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted July 08 2013 - 06:46 AM

Season 4 began filming today

#20 of 299 OFFLINE   Sam Favate

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Posted July 08 2013 - 01:01 PM

So non-readers know, Adam's link contains a major spoiler.

 

If the description of the episode is correct, it pretty much confirms my guess about what the contents of season 4, and where the season is going to end (unless the show really plays around with the timeline).

 

Wow, that article really does drop some big spoilers and it does so casually.






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