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Wreck-It Ralph 3D: Ultimate Collector's Edition Blu-ray Review



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#21 of 48 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted February 23 2013 - 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Angell 


I don't want to pay $34 or even $28 for a movie, which men's I'll wait to get this one. But it's Disney and it may never come down in price. Maybe if it hits $29 and BB is doing their trade-in thing.


The DVD version is going for under $20 on both Amazon and BB.com.  I don't necessarily want to pay a premium for Disney product either-who would, really?-but I understand this is the price of admission.


Originally Posted by Ejanss 


It's not that Disney doesn't want to do Disk 2 extras (Brave certainly broke tradition and gave us bonus-disk features)--
It's more that their attempt to be all disk releases to everyone has painted themselves into the corner that they CAN'T do Bonus Disk 2 releases anymore...


I never said they didn't want to do them.  I said the extras were no longer bringing in the same unit sales and Disney is doing the same thing as other studios in combining their BD and DVD sets.  The industry has painted themselves into that corner because they are so intent on getting everyone into the download only world they are trying to throw everything into one package.  Make the people who are only on DVD think they're getting something more with a combo pack.  Help the people who have a BD at home and DVD in the car for the kids.  Have the Digital Copy for the folks who travel and aren't at home a lot.

I'm not arguing these are valid value adds.  I'd rather have docs and trailers and that kind of thing.  But to hold this completely over Disney is false.


#22 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted February 23 2013 - 07:39 PM

I never said they didn't want to do them.  I said the extras were no longer bringing in the same unit sales and Disney is doing the same thing as other studios in combining their BD and DVD sets.  The industry has painted themselves into that corner because they are so intent on getting everyone into the download only world they are trying to throw everything into one package.  Make the people who are only on DVD think they're getting something more with a combo pack.  Help the people who have a BD at home and DVD in the car for the kids.  Have the Digital Copy for the folks who travel and aren't at home a lot.  I'm not arguing these are valid value adds.  I'd rather have docs and trailers and that kind of thing.  But to hold this completely over Disney is false. 

Well, Disney INVENTED the DVD/Combo idea: Nowadays, nobody even remembers it--even Disney forgot within six months, when they started combo'ing regular Blu-ray releases like Wall-E and High School Musical--but the idea was that the first limited-time Diamond Editions of Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio were out on shelves back when nobody even dreamed of buying a Blu player (or sneered at the idea)...And Disney didn't want more Bambi-in-the-vault whines from fans who'd missed out on the limited-time sale, who wouldn't have their player until the titles were long in the vault, and so tried to push the "Gather ye acorns" idea of DVD owners buying the combo now, to watch the DVD and stockpile the Blu later, for "free". In came the Blu fans saying "Thanks, you gave me a DVD for my laptop and kids' room!", and DVD owners missed the idea. Finally, Disney tried to "fool" the DVD owners by putting Snow White combos in "DVD+Blu-ray" DVD-sized boxes, for those who would be looking for them on shelves, and tried to make the idea stick by delaying the DVD-only release six weeks....Unfortunately, the delay was what the press got hold of, DVD owners cried "Disney is discriminating against us! :( "and waited the six weeks. And you can apply the same theory to the 2D+3D releases of Christmas Carol and Alice, back when nobody dreamed of buying a 3D player/set, or sneered at that idea, too. So while I can understand Disney's logic, we have to find some way of telling them....they can stop now. :rolleyes:

#23 of 48 OFFLINE   Ethan Riley

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Posted February 23 2013 - 09:38 PM

A Brief History of Disney Blu-Ray: 1.) Disney lobbies hard for the industry to choose Blu over HD. 2.) After a hard-won victory in the "format wars," Disney pretty much ignores the Blu format for about three years and just keeps on releasing its catalog titles as dvd only. 3.) Disney finally starts unloading its fabulous vaults of Elder Product; "restores" animated features to such a high degree that they end up looking like made-for-tv cartoons from the 1990s. 4.) Experiments with "combo packs" and other differing packaging formats--all in a grand attempt to confuse consumers and drive people away from Blu--the format that it lobbied so hard for the industry to accept (see #1). 5.) Disney releases lots and lots of blu product; quality varies, but at least the product is out there. Continues releasing dvd product, even long after it wanted the industry to upgrade. Why? Moms want cheap dvds to shut up their kids; somehow never occurs to people to upgrade their PCs and, uh, recreational vehicles to Blu.
 

 


#24 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted February 24 2013 - 03:18 AM

A Brief History of Disney Blu-Ray: 1.) Disney lobbies hard for the industry to choose Blu over HD.

1) Toshiba was in Microsoft's pocket for pushing HD, since HD becoming the format would give Microsoft the coding monopoly on all hi-def and streaming titles. Steve Jobs, on the board for Disney, lobbies hard for Blu and keeps Disney the most faithful Blu fortress, which would keep an Apple-friendly MP4-derived video coding, and more accessibility for everyone, if and when Apple included Blu drives.

2.) After a hard-won victory in the "format wars," Disney pretty much ignores the Blu format for about three years and just keeps on releasing its catalog titles as dvd only.

2) But then, that victory WAS hard-won, and nobody wanted to make a move until it was. FWIW, Disney's credited with lobbying harder for mainstream/family Blu acceptance than Sony itself was, while had been publicly embarrassing itself--and giving HD an advantage with film buffs--by giving the format a negative action-adrenaline teen stereotype to keep their PS3 audience. And IIRC, Disney was already out of the gate first with their high-resolution CGI movies (Dinosaur, Chicken Little), since back then, nobody knew whether traditional non-CGI animated would "work" on Blu either, and stayed away from it.

3.) Disney finally starts unloading its fabulous vaults of Elder Product; "restores" animated features to such a high degree that they end up looking like made-for-tv cartoons from the 1990s.

3) Although keep in mind, one of the reasons we got Sleeping Beauty fresh out of the gate was in 2008, studios literally didn't know whether audiences would accept anything but 16:9 movies whatsoever on widescreen sets. There was a lot of very strategic hemming, hawing, and dragging of feet from studios, and if Disney hadn't been "forced" to come to terms with releasing Snow White, and creating the Disney/View borders to sell it, 4:3 Classic Blu movies might have been permanently down the river at all the studios. (Some were even debating the "marketability" of Cropping.)

4.) Experiments with "combo packs" and other differing packaging formats--all in a grand attempt to confuse consumers and drive people away from Blu--the format that it lobbied so hard for the industry to accept (see #1).

4) THEY tried to make it easy, WE confused it. :o (The first '08 ads, and even the first '10 3D ads, said "Buy ahead!", but even the most current DVD/Combo ads say "An extra for your laptop!" Thanks loads, guys--Just remember who gets the blame.)

#25 of 48 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted February 24 2013 - 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ethan Riley 

4.) Experiments with "combo packs" and other differing packaging formats--all in a grand attempt to confuse consumers and drive people away from Blu--the format that it lobbied so hard for the industry to accept (see #1).


Really?  It was an attempt to kill BD?  Seems to me that putting these combination together to see what sells was trying to make acceptance easier.  As in...here, buy the combo pack with BD and you have a DVD for your bedroom, the kids, the car, to take to Grandma's or to watch in case you don't have BD right now.  And, oh wait, when you do get that super cheap player on Black Friday in a year or two, you already have the BD ready to go.


I'll admit consumers are stupid 95% of the time.  But I don't see how these confuses them in any way, shape or form.  The most confusing thing is figuring out which combo pack to get.



#26 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted February 24 2013 - 06:20 AM

Really?  It was an attempt to kill BD?  Seems to me that putting these combination together to see what sells was trying to make acceptance easier.  As in...here, buy the combo pack with BD and you have a DVD for your bedroom, the kids, the car, to take to Grandma's or to watch in case you don't have BD right now.  And, oh wait, when you do get that super cheap player on Black Friday in a year or two, you already have the BD ready to go.

And again: In '07-'08, most people didn't WANT to buy a Blu player until the War was eventually over, and those who did wouldn't be realistically able to afford an early-adopter player for at least two to three years...And it was a fact that in two to three years, Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio would have long been OOP and off store shelves. (Any latecomers here want to give their own horror stories about having to go back and track down copies at Best Buy/eBay now, because they weren't paying attention at the time? :P ) Disney had already taken enough angry-fan guff from SNL sketches about Bambi going back into the vault, so they wanted to make sure THIS time around that if future Blu owners took their time to get the player, if they didn't have SB or Pinocchio yet, it wasn't because Disney hadn't tried to give them a chance. And to bring it back to topic by way of illustration, even if you don't have that 3D set yet, go ahead and buy that Ralph 3D combo for the long run anyway...One never knows, do one? :cool:

#27 of 48 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted February 24 2013 - 07:27 AM

Yep, I don't have a 3D TV and no 3D glasses or any of that.  But I have a handful of 3D titles on my shelf.  Why?  Because I plan on getting one at some point.  When?  I don't know.  However, I like to think I'm forward thinking enough to plan for the future.  I'm sorry some people didn't because they didn't want to get a BD player for one reason or another.  The fact of the matter is its called planning.  Knowing Disney's track record of putting titles in the vault, why wouldn't you invest the $20 or $30 into the title which has the BD and DVD?  Play the DVD now and when you get a BD player, you're ready to go.  But no.  This is the same mentality at play every December when people are rushing around trying to find Christmas presents two days before Christmas.


This is all about short term gratification vs. seeing the big picture.



#28 of 48 OFFLINE   Johnny Angell

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Posted March 01 2013 - 06:48 AM

Release week pricing from advance ad show Target $27.99 for the 5 Disc and 19.99 for the 3 disc. Plus the $7 Manufacturers Coupon from Scott/Disney Movie Rewards (same type coupon as with Peter Pan) Buy it from Target, PM at TRU or BBY and the Coupon -- $12.99 or $20.99 release week sounds pretty good. If you've been doing the Reward Zone Free points polls and have some other freebies it can get really fun. $7 Off Wreck It Ralph MQ

The coupon says its good for the Blu-ray Combo Pack. I hope that covers the 3D version. Target just had a promotion, buy 10 sobe waters for $10 and a get a $5 gift card. We already drink these, so I've got 2 $5 gift cards. That'll bring the 3D version down to $11. :)
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#29 of 48 OFFLINE   David Norman

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Posted March 01 2013 - 07:04 AM

The coupon says its good for the Blu-ray Combo Pack. I hope that covers the 3D version. Target just had a promotion, buy 10 sobe waters for $10 and a get a $5 gift card. We already drink these, so I've got 2 $5 gift cards. That'll bring the 3D version down to $11. :)

Well the ComboPack should be good for either set. The 3D is actually pictured on the coupon so should be no argument on that one at all. Some folks are expecting a little push from some stores on the 2D since it's not pictured, but the wording of the coupon seems to indicate it's for either. If not -- copy this part of the promo and take it in with you Original $7 coupon terms
 

 


#30 of 48 OFFLINE   Chuck Anstey

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Posted March 01 2013 - 07:29 AM

Now wait a minute about this "include 2D with a 3D release" problem that supposedly Disney created. Blu-ray 3D discs are not guaranteed to play in a non 3D Blu-ray player or a 3D player hooked up to a 2D TV thanks to the Blu-ray standards committee. What movie was ever released as a Blu-ray 3D only that did not have a 2D version included at least on the same disc so it would play on 2D players or play when output to 2D displays? Disney just prefers to press a second disc (cost < $0.50) for 2D instead of having the 3D disc also be a 2D version, just like nearly every other studio. Rarely are 3D movies released with the 3D/2D versions on the same disc. The "always include a DVD" situation is interesting and somewhat forced because there are not yet any portable Blu-ray devices and portability hits Disney far more than any other studio. Requiring parents to buy a separate DVD version for their car, kid's room, playroom, etc. is a non-starter so Disney (and most other studios) would rather include a $0.25 DVD than create another package.

#31 of 48 ONLINE   Aaron Silverman

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Posted March 01 2013 - 07:46 AM

Chuck ninjaed me! I believe that all BD3D releases *must* include the 2D version, whether on the same or another disc.
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#32 of 48 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted March 01 2013 - 07:58 AM

Well, since the 3D disc almost never has the bulk of the bonus features for the release, the 2D Blu-ray disc is important to have in the package. It's the DVD I could do without, but then I don't have children to give the DVD to or a car equipped with a DVD player to use it with. Others naturally will find it worth the cost.



#33 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted March 01 2013 - 08:07 AM

Well, since the 3D disc almost never has the bulk of the bonus features for the release, the 2D Blu-ray disc is important to have in the package. It's the DVD I could do without, but then I don't have children to give the DVD to or a car equipped with a DVD player to use it with. Others naturally will find it worth the cost.

The 2D disk is included because A) like Sleeping Beauty, some folks don't have their 3D set/player yet and might be smart enough to buy ahead, and B) most 3D disks aren't mastered for 2D players, period. 3D menus make the disk unplayable from insertion, so most 2D-only players are programmed to reject--Unless it's a Dreamworks "hybrid" disk with 2D menus, and the option of selecting the 3D feature. (And seriously: You JUST CAN'T EXPLAIN to people anymore that the DVD thing was never originally about "the kids' room and the laptop"! Just try--Even Disney believes it now! With a little hard work and luck, you might be able to convince one person about how things were in 2008, and then (snap!) five minutes later... :rolleyes: That seductive urban-legend has become the single biggest obstacle to disk-reduction: Like the Digital Copy disk, with more and more travel "backup" movies going to laptop/tablet streaming, what devices even use DVD's anymore?)

#34 of 48 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted March 01 2013 - 08:32 AM

We use the DVDs in the car, and when we travel a lot of the condos we stay at have DVD players.  We also have some smaller TVs around the house with built in DVD players, so for our household the DVD in the combo pack is still important.



#35 of 48 OFFLINE   Chuck Anstey

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Posted March 01 2013 - 08:41 AM

(And seriously: You JUST CAN'T EXPLAIN to people anymore that the DVD thing was never originally about "the kids' room and the laptop"! Just try--Even Disney believes it now! With a little hard work and luck, you might be able to convince one person about how things were in 2008, and then (snap!) five minutes later... :rolleyes: That seductive urban-legend has become the single biggest obstacle to disk-reduction: Like the Digital Copy disk, with more and more travel "backup" movies going to laptop/tablet streaming, what devices even use DVD's anymore?)

It really doesn't matter the original reason for the DVD as a way to push Blu-ray. The reality now is simply that Blu-ray is in a reasonable number of households so why make a fair number of people choose between best quality and portability when it costs effectively nothing to include it with the Blu-ray. Even if it is/was a giant marketing ploy to sucker non-Blu households into spending extra to buy the Blu-ray package, the cost differential is now just the typical extra price paid (sometimes zero extra cost) to have higher quality even if the actual manufacturing / distribution cost of the Blu-ray package is the same as DVD package, which I'm sure it is within pennies. Edit - I just want to add that just because it was some greedy corporate ploy doesn't mean that it was ever going to work as intended and it didn't cause the price of Blu-ray units to go up. So in some sense it totally back-fired on them as many parents are thankful for the current situation that they might have been otherwise been forced to buy it twice and enterprising people use it as a way to cut costs by having one person pay only a little for the extra DVD and the other defrays the cost of the Blu-ray.

#36 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted March 01 2013 - 10:12 AM

Edit - I just want to add that just because it was some greedy corporate ploy doesn't mean that it was ever going to work as intended and it didn't cause the price of Blu-ray units to go up. So in some sense it totally back-fired on them as many parents are thankful for the current situation that they might have been otherwise been forced to buy it twice and enterprising people use it as a way to cut costs by having one person pay only a little for the extra DVD and the other defrays the cost of the Blu-ray.

It wasn't "greed", it was trying to meet the customer halfway on a problematic issue on one or two specific titles (limited-time Diamond releases), got swept with too wide a brush, and lost its compass-- And yes it DID backfire on them, since the inclusion of so many "cheap cost-effective mini-disks" of identical material drove up prices the more "convenient" disks of the exact same movie were crammed in, and less room for more innovative features at less cost, like the Snow White Blu-ray. To the point that there was no physical room anymore for innovative bonus features unless prices were pumped up to $45, the bonuses were exiled to low-quality Internet downloads on a dying network, and more customers complaining about paying more and getting less. It's a mistake, it always was a mistake (as in, a goof, not a wrong idea), and if you KEEP making mistakes because you forgot why you made them in the first place, things are never going to improve any better.

#37 of 48 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted March 01 2013 - 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ejanss 


It wasn't "greed", it was trying to meet the customer halfway on a problematic issue on one or two specific titles (limited-time Diamond releases), got swept with too wide a brush, and lost its compass--


Didn't we just have this whole conversation up thread?

Saying this has to do with the Diamond Releases is false.  Disney has had VHS and DVD titles go back into the vault since the beginning of time (slight exaggeration).  They did not include a VHS copy with the DVD to make sure the audience knew to pick up the DVD even if they didn't have a player.  The original Snow White Platinum DVD Release came out in 2001 and went into the vault at the beginning of 2002.

I also don't see how this backfired on anyone but the consumer.  If we had not bought everything Disney threw at us for years, then maybe they would have "gotten the hint."  But what do all of us-me included-do?  Run out on release day, pre-order the new title and then complain about it.  So Disney has the money and the consumers don't have what "we" want.  Who's the dummy in that equation?  I don't think it's Disney.  Their sales numbers clearly tell them something other than consumers aren't buying their product because of the factors that have been mentioned.



#38 of 48 ONLINE   Ejanss

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Posted March 01 2013 - 10:46 PM

Didn't we just have this whole conversation up thread?  Saying this has to do with the Diamond Releases is false.  Disney has had VHS and DVD titles go back into the vault since the beginning of time (slight exaggeration).  They did not include a VHS copy with the DVD to make sure the audience knew to pick up the DVD even if they didn't have a player.  The original Snow White Platinum DVD Release came out in 2001 and went into the vault at the beginning of 2002. 

Uh, you're going wayyy too far back in history for a comparison: Disgruntled fans whining and spinning conspiracy theories about missing limited-time Platinum DVD's weren't invented yet, and certainly not on the first limited-time disk. (In '01, when the Snow White Platinum came out, it was only a year or two after Disney had tossed off the Limited Editions thinking no one would buy them.) Those obnoxious Robert Smigel SNL sketches about Bambi going back into the vault wouldn't be for another few years. When they tried to "get the jump on" our complaints by pitching future-compatible Blu combos and saying Buy Now, Play Later, they THOUGHT they finally fixed the problem, and the complaints about missing limited time Blu-ray Diamond releases would be gone. They thought that, anyway.

#39 of 48 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted March 02 2013 - 03:42 AM

And the complaints should have stopped there.  No consumer has the "right" to any product at their whim for a price they feel is appropriate.  No one had the "right" to the Disney Treasures releases which sold out in a heartbeat, for instance.  This should have been a non-issue but consumers are very adverse to taking responsibility for anything they do.  I know, and knew, if I wanted a Disney release, I had better get it release week.  I don't much care I don't have a 3D TV right now; I have a handful of 3D titles on the shelf.  And know why I have the 3D release?  Because  the BD is included in the same package.  By the way, my 3D Wreck It Ralph is down to $22.99.  A bit high, for sure, but I'm AOK with that for Disney releases.


Disney has done everything they could to encourage folks to pick up their combos.  There are ads on TV when movies go back in the vault.  Initial advertising always says Limited Time.  Sure, it's nice to make fun of Disney, but they have always been above board with their plans.



#40 of 48 OFFLINE   Chuck Anstey

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Posted March 02 2013 - 07:32 AM

I think you guys are dead wrong on these issues. 1. That the cost of the packaging has anything to do with the price the package is sold. 2. That the DVD version in the Blu-ray package limits or requires high cost to have great extras. If the first one was true then Blu-rays would cost about $0.50 more than DVDs. Instead they cost anywhere from $-5 to $10 more than the DVD counterpart. Also there wouldn't be $5-$10 Blu-rays available and some of these prices are for new catalog releases. For the new release Blu-rays we are talking about, they wouldn't be one penny cheaper if they did not include the DVD. As for the second one, I guess you never collected DVDs in the early to mid 2000's before HD-DVD and Blu-ray where routinely the 2-disc special edition with all those glorious extras cost $10 more than the movie only version. You want the super duper version with all the extras or the box of crap edition, then you have to pay more and sometimes quite a bit more because they know some people are willing to pay for it. I don't see how the consumer is being hurt at all by the choice of what is included in the packages. Consumers are being hurt (or possibly saved from themselves) by the anti-consumer practice of "The Vault" and so is Disney but they don't seem to care or believe it keeps their image fresher with a cycle of classics being available every 6 months to a year. There are some Disney movies we did not buy because our kids out grew them before Disney finally took them out of the vault. Had Disney just released everything they had on DVD (and then on Blu) as reasonably quickly as they could and left them in the market permanently we would have bought even more movies than we already did. Never did we "buy it now, play it later" just in case.





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