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Best Subwoofer in 600-700 range!!! Suggestion? 18x23x8 room


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#1 of 25 luanng

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:28 PM

Looking for something decent in that range. 25% video games. 40 % movies and tv 35 % music. Any suggestion would be great!!! Thank you!!

#2 of 25 Al.Anderson

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Posted February 04 2013 - 10:53 PM

In that range you'll have a decent number of choices. I like Hsu, so here's my opening salvo: http://www.hsuresear...s/vtf-3mk4.html

#3 of 25 Robert_J

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Posted February 05 2013 - 01:46 AM

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/ is another option. Most of the time I would suggest SVS but with a room of that size, a 15" driver is required. If you are handy with tools, you can really go crazy with a DIY sub. $700 would get dual 15's or a single 18".

#4 of 25 DL 00

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Posted February 06 2013 - 06:54 PM

I'm curious, how do these Power Sound Audio subs compare to SVS? I cant find many reviews on them. SVS is a proven company but I'm curious about these Power Sound Audio subs.

#5 of 25 Robert_J

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Posted February 07 2013 - 01:47 AM

Power Sound was founded by Tom Vodhanel. The V in SVS. His partner in Power Sound is another SVS alumnus. If you look at the 15" driver that is assembled in the US, I'll bet it comes from Fi Car Audio. Scott's company was one of two suppliers to the early days of SVS before they took their driver manufacturing in-house. Since you are new, I'll bet you don't know the SVS story. Well, it started here when Ron Stimpson (the S in Stimpson Vodhanel Subwoofers) wanted to build a sub. At the time we had a very active DIY section and Ron ended up building this sub - http://www.hometheat...ptember-99.html It worked out so well, they stared a company. If I didn't build my own subs, would have no hesitation in going with Power Sound.

#6 of 25 DL 00

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Posted February 07 2013 - 03:12 PM

Yeah you guys sure are knowledgeable about the history of companys, etc. I'm strongly considering the XS15 or XV15 right now. Originally I didn't plan on spending that much on a sub but I think I'm changing my mind. I would actually love to check out the SVS PB12-PLUS but I cant justify $1400 for myself. $800 I think I could do.

#7 of 25 Robert_J

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Posted February 08 2013 - 01:10 AM

It's a toss up for me between the sealed and vented. With my DIY sub, I went sealed so I didn't have to worry about adding a subsonic filter. With these subs you don't have that worry since they have taken care of that in the design. Can you live with the larger, vented cabinet?

#8 of 25 Robert_J

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Posted February 08 2013 - 01:12 AM

If Chad at Epik Subwoofers could get some stuff in stock, I'd recommend this one - http://www.epiksubwo...com/empire.html

#9 of 25 DL 00

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Posted February 08 2013 - 04:07 PM

Yeah I noticed Epik has nothing in stock so they havent even been in consideration for me. Ive bee going back and forth between XS15 or XV15, HSU ULS-15, or possibly an SVS sub. Size is not a factor for me. I actually think a big sub looks visually impressive. Gives it kind of a wow-factor just from looking at it, before even hearing it perform. On the smaller side, the ULS-15 has really caught my attention. And I think the wirless is a cool feature. Not being able to actually hear any of these subs in person, it's a bit of a toss-up for me right now. I'd say I'm probably leaning towards the HSU at the moment.

#10 of 25 schan1269

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Posted February 08 2013 - 05:07 PM

If it helps steer you toward Hsu... Hsu designed the BIC H100(and its stronger brother...PL 200, only available in the PL76 "theatre package"). Which BIC parlayed that into the F12 and VK12. The Hsu ULS is the basis for the Pinnacle Rhino line, even though the Rhino line has more sizes...the dimensions(internally) are identical on the Rhino 15...the rest are the same size ratio...but smaller to account for the 12 and 10.

#11 of 25 DL 00

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Posted February 12 2013 - 10:11 PM

Well after a lot of research I've decided to go with an SVS sub. Going to go dual ported 10s or dual sealed 12s. Going to go with the Hsu center channel and bookshelves. And although I'm not 100% sure yet, I'm thinking about the BIC PL-89s for my fronts. Gonna wait until I get back stateside before I actually place any orders. This set-up is going to be quite a bit more than I originally planned on spending, especially for the subs, but I'm quite excited to get it all put together. Thanks for the info guys. I wasn't even thinking about these internet-direct companies until checking out some forums. I'm expecting these SVS subs to blow my Infinity Primus out of the water.

#12 of 25 Doug Hess

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Posted February 14 2013 - 01:21 PM

Hey, Douglas. First of all, my compliments on your fine name. :) I love SVS subs, but I'm really curious about your choice of main speakers. Horn-loaded BICs? What's pointing you in that direction? What else have you listened to? No judgement, just really curious about your apparent mismatch of sub and speakers. -Doug

#13 of 25 Mike Frezon

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Posted February 14 2013 - 02:07 PM

And you (Douglas) might want to consider matching your fronts and center channel.


I'm no expert like a lot of the fellas who hang around this forum...but one of the things I've picked up over the years is that the two fronts and center channel should be timber matched.

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#14 of 25 Robert_J

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Posted February 14 2013 - 10:59 PM

Hey, Douglas. First of all, my compliments on your fine name. :) I love SVS subs, but I'm really curious about your choice of main speakers. Horn-loaded BICs? What's pointing you in that direction? What else have you listened to? No judgement, just really curious about your apparent mismatch of sub and speakers. -Doug

Since they don't play the same frequency range there is no reason to "match" speakers and subs. Also, the companies that make great speakers rarely make great subs. On the other hand, companies that started with subs usually go on to make some very good speakers.

#15 of 25 Doug Hess

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Posted February 15 2013 - 11:00 AM

Hey, Robert. My apologies for not being clearer. By "mismatched" I didn't mean that they needed to match up in timbre, rather a mismatch in quality. Douglas is giving so much love and attention to the sub, and choosing speakers that many would find . . . beneath it. Subs, though certainly important, play a relatively small part of the sound. But the main speakers will play nearly all of it, and determine the character for the entire system. I'll admit to not being a fan of the horn-loaded sound, but that's not what this is about. This just felt a little like parking a $100,000 Ferrari in the garage of your $70,000 house, ya know? Again, whatever makes you happy, but I thought it deserved some discussion. -Doug

#16 of 25 schan1269

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Posted February 15 2013 - 11:11 AM

Not to knock the "unknown"... But lots of people feel the BIC PL is right up with the Klipsch Reference series. The BIC PL blows the Synergy line away. And with the cost difference of PL vs. Reference...easy to pick the BIC PL. However, why he wouldn't choose the PL center is beyond me...

#17 of 25 Doug Hess

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Posted February 15 2013 - 12:48 PM

Hi, Schan. I think my attempts to be delicate ("mismatch") caused confusion and my attempt to clarify offended. Again, my apologies. Speakers are so subjective, and I try not to use objective terms that might indicate that a speaker is bad. But I've been in the CE business for 20 years and have reviewed a broad cross-section of equipment, including BIC and Klipsch* horn-loaded towers. I thought both had interesting characteristics, but a polarizing sound. Impressive for the price, yes, but still an unusual pairing with the SVS sub. At the end of the day I can only speak for myself, and that's the only point I intended to make. Really. -Doug * Love the Image S4s and X1s, BTW.

#18 of 25 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted February 16 2013 - 06:40 AM

Hi, Schan. I think my attempts to be delicate ("mismatch") caused confusion and my attempt to clarify offended. Again, my apologies. Speakers are so subjective, and I try not to use objective terms that might indicate that a speaker is bad. But I've been in the CE business for 20 years and have reviewed a broad cross-section of equipment, including BIC and Klipsch* horn-loaded towers. I thought both had interesting characteristics, but a polarizing sound. Impressive for the price, yes, but still an unusual pairing with the SVS sub. At the end of the day I can only speak for myself, and that's the only point I intended to make. Really. -Doug * Love the Image S4s and X1s, BTW.

Barring something unusual (like a planer dipole speaker) the primary concerns when matching a subwoofer to speakers is A)response overlap, B) reasonable consideration given to the output capabilities of each. For example--- A)If you main speakers begin rolling off at 100hz ideally the subwoofer will extend past 100hz . Some don't think this is a big deal but I'd actually go for a fairly broad overlap of extension when possible----particularly on the sub side. So if you want to use an 80hz crossover point, look for a subwoofer that's relatively flat out to 120-150hz. B)If you have 100dB sensitive horns, don't match them with a shoebox sized woof...:) And the converse is also true. Don't go for a folded horn subwoofer when you have 5 little cube speakers.. There's plenty of other considerations that could be debated at length...but if you get the above 2 considerations close....things tend to work out. Tom V. Power Sound Audio

#19 of 25 Doug Hess

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Posted February 16 2013 - 12:58 PM

Hey, Tom. I can't find a reliable tolerance spec for the PL-89s. The only specs I can find say they'll play down to 25Hz, though I don't know if that's +/- 3dB (unlikely) or 10dB (more likely). My guess would be that the usable bass extension is in the neighborhood of 38Hz, which is still pretty respectable. Obviously, that leaves plenty of overlap with the SVS sub. And with a sensitivity rating of 98dB, Douglas' amp sure won't have to work very hard. But my contributions here have been about sound quality only. Have you heard these speakers? What's your take on them? -Doug

#20 of 25 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted February 17 2013 - 03:17 AM

Hey, Tom. I can't find a reliable tolerance spec for the PL-89s. The only specs I can find say they'll play down to 25Hz, though I don't know if that's +/- 3dB (unlikely) or 10dB (more likely). My guess would be that the usable bass extension is in the neighborhood of 38Hz, which is still pretty respectable. Obviously, that leaves plenty of overlap with the SVS sub. And with a sensitivity rating of 98dB, Douglas' amp sure won't have to work very hard. But my contributions here have been about sound quality only. Have you heard these speakers? What's your take on them? -Doug

I don't think I've heard that particular model. Have heard a few Bics(and their other internet direct variations) over the years. One issue that needs to be considered is the difference between "rated extension" and the speaker's real world ability to produce the desired output levels without adding harsh sounding forms of distortion. Here is one example. This speaker is "rated" to 27hz. And if you measured it in some room environments it likely would meet that spec. However, for home theater use at least(when speakers can be required to produce up to 105dB at the seating positions) the distortion this speaker would produce <60-70hz would sound pretty bad....even to a casual listener. http://www.soundstag...23_strata_mini/ And that distortion is measured with a fairly low (for HT purposes) 90dB level. The next problem is room modal patterns. In a nutshell, the main left/right speakers must be positioned in regards to imaging and directional cues. These locations will rarely(if ever) be the optimal position for bass reproduction. So even if you own that rare set of full range towers that can reproduce loud bass without audible distortion down to 20hz and below----I would still make the argument that the system will provide better performance if you used a 80hz highpass on those speakers and had enough quality woofage optimally located in the room. Also, when highpassing the mains you'll relieve them of the most demanding source material. This often leads to audible improvements in their mid and upper frequency reproduction. None of this is directed at any particular speaker/sub combo. Just general thoughts. Tom V. Power Sound Audio




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