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Feedback on Proposed Yamaha/Klipsch System


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#1 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 28 2013 - 04:45 AM

I am in the process of finishing a basement and installing a new home theater system. The drywall is scheduled to go up next week, so I need to make some final decisions about how this should be wired. I also need to make a final decision on the hardware. Here is what is in my shopping cart: is this a good choice for the money, or a big mistake? Receiver: Yamaha RX-V773WABL (7.2 surround sound, 95 watts per channel) Front Speakers: Klipsch RF-52 II (2) Center Speaker: Klipsch RC-52 II Surround Speakers: Klipsch RS-42 II (2) Sub-Woofer: Klipsch SW-110 Here are my questions: 1-Does the above setup make sense? 2- What should I do with the last two powered channels? I’m debating two things: a: I could bi-wire the front speakers or b: I could add a pair of back speakers (Klipsch suggests the RB-51 II) for 7.1 sound. 3- I have a little more money in my budget and can afford one of the following two things. a: the Klipsch back speakers mentioned above for 7.1 surround sound, or b: a second Klipsch SW-110 subwoofer (I’m guessing totally unnecessary, but having another would make a statement). Should I do one, the other, or neither?

#2 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 05:46 AM

7.1 or 5.1 is a personal/space choice....and what you are going to watch/listen to. Do you have room for a "proper" 7.1 given seating arrangements? (http://www.dolby.com...uide/index.html) Otherwise, nothing wrong with Yamaha and horn speaker...if you like/want horn. The other two channels could also do height(since you are already "buying" the 773...download the manual and read up on Presence. The 773 might even have DPL IIz.)

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   Dave Upton

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Posted January 28 2013 - 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by analytics 

I am in the process of finishing a basement and installing a new home theater system. The drywall is scheduled to go up next week, so I need to make some final decisions about how this should be wired. I also need to make a final decision on the hardware.

Here is what is in my shopping cart: is this a good choice for the money, or a big mistake?

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V773WABL (7.2 surround sound, 95 watts per channel)
Front Speakers: Klipsch RF-52 II (2)
Center Speaker: Klipsch RC-52 II
Surround Speakers: Klipsch RS-42 II (2)
Sub-Woofer: Klipsch SW-110

Here are my questions:

1-Does the above setup make sense?

2- What should I do with the last two powered channels? I’m debating two things: a: I could bi-wire the front speakers or b: I could add a pair of back speakers (Klipsch suggests the RB-51 II) for 7.1 sound.

3- I have a little more money in my budget and can afford one of the following two things. a: the Klipsch back speakers mentioned above for 7.1 surround sound, or b: a second Klipsch SW-110 subwoofer (I’m guessing totally unnecessary, but having another would make a statement). Should I do one, the other, or neither?


I think your list looks good overall, but I would pick 2 subwoofers over rear channels any day of the week. Your in room bass response is one of the most critical aspects of an enjoyable experience - and a second sub does wonders to smooth out room response issues. I would even consider looking at this sub (x2) instead of the SW-110. http://www.parts-exp...tnumber=303-436


#4 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 06:34 AM

I didn't mention the "type of surround" because... 1. I'm not a fan of bi/di-pole (personal preference...nothing more) 2. Not a fan of that particular speaker, at all. If you read up on "bi/di-pole" and what "horn" means...you'll understand my issue with that speaker. Same issue I have with BIC's version. Edit: I'm also about to do a review on a set of speakers...which for me will be a bit of a challenge. The surround speakers I will be reviewing... 1. Are a combination bi/di-pole and a "single point stereo" speaker all in one. 2. My theateres are all set up with tower speakers in all locations. Two of my theatres, the rears "float" in the room. I'll have to find stands...and figure out a placement....

#5 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 28 2013 - 09:49 AM

Hi Sam, I think I have room for a "proper" 7.1. The room is about 18 x 30. The TV is on one side of the long end. The biggest arcitectural challenge is that the ceiling drops about 8 inches for a 2-foot-wide strip (for heating conduits), right down the center of the room--parallel to the TV. I'm thinking I can attach the surround speakers to that, and the back speakers to the back wall. Regarding the Yamaha presence, that seems kind of gimicky, doesn't it? If I had to choose, I'd rather go for the real 7.1. Could you explain your issue with the horns on the RS-42s? I can't quite piece together why you don't think they should work well. They get great reviews at Amazon. Thanks!

#6 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 28 2013 - 09:51 AM

Hi David, Excellent point on the subwoofer. The link you provided doesn't work--what's your suggestion for a sub?

#7 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 10:16 AM

Hi Sam, I think I have room for a "proper" 7.1. The room is about 18 x 30. The TV is on one side of the long end. The biggest arcitectural challenge is that the ceiling drops about 8 inches for a 2-foot-wide strip (for heating conduits), right down the center of the room--parallel to the TV. I'm thinking I can attach the surround speakers to that, and the back speakers to the back wall. Regarding the Yamaha presence, that seems kind of gimicky, doesn't it? If I had to choose, I'd rather go for the real 7.1. Could you explain your issue with the horns on the RS-42s? I can't quite piece together why you don't think they should work well. They get great reviews at Amazon. Thanks!

Height and width is not a "gimmick"... Well, it is...but. Brief explanation of "why height/width exist". In music and soundtracks there is a cue for directionalism. There are numerous sources that make great use of height or width. And again, depends on THE SOURCE. Not the player, not the AVR, not the speakers...the source... Star Trek:TNG. Using height or width...the "ship drone" is sent to the height or width speakers leaving the "front three" to concentrate on on screen action. The "beam"(as in beam me up Scotty), when going up...you hear it up. When coming down, you hear it down. U571. Using height, there is a constant "water creak" one would hear the entire time aboard a submarine...from above. The Aviator/Pearl Harbor. Whenever there is "action above"...you hear the bombs coming down. The Kamikaze scenes make it sound like a Zero is coming down right on your head. Fox. Football* and baseball the "crowd" is sent high/wide and to the surrounds, leaving the front three for the on-field action. Star Trek:TMP(the reboot...with Chris Pine). The "jump" down to the drill in height mode makes you just about $&!@ your pants. Man on a Ledge. Height or width mode you hear birds chirping and when he throws the cash, you hear it flutter all over the room. In height, the jump down to "the bag" is pretty darn impressive. I use height in my main theatre and width in the living room. Now about the RS 52. (I have the same issue with the BIC Acoustech 63) The entire point of a di/bi-pole speaker is to diffuse the sound... The entire point of a horn is for point source clarity. point source clarity and diffuse sound are opposite goals. *During FOX football, if you have kids watching, turn the height/width off. If you think you hear some "your momma dresses you funny" jawing between players...think again. You haven't heard "on-field jawing" till you use height or width.

#8 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 28 2013 - 12:13 PM

Height and width "exist", sure. But don't you need DPL IIz to access the height and width encoded in a movie? My receiver doesn't have DPL IIz, and my understanding is that "presence" speakers are a uniquely Yamaha thing, where the system uses its own algorithims to figure out what to send to those speakers. So if you had my basement, and could only use 7 speakers, you'd do a 5.1 + presence setup, rather than a 7.1 setup?

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 12:23 PM

Your 773 "might" have IIz. I know the RX-A series started to get it last year. So, if you haven't bought the 773, you might check out the A820. If it doesn't have it, the 1020 might(regardless I know Yamaha has started to implement it). Presence does, sorta, the same thing as IIz anyway. Since it requires another pair of speakers...try both 7.1 and 5.1 with height. Depending how you set it up(and use a speaker switch) you could wire up both...then go into set-up, change from 7.1 to "height" in 10 seconds and press the button on the speaker switch.

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted January 28 2013 - 02:45 PM

Height and width "exist", sure. But don't you need DPL IIz to access the height and width encoded in a movie?

Technically speaking, you need DPL IIz to create the height and width audio from the Dolby or DTS-encoded audio track. The extra channels are not discretely encoded in the bitstream data.

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#11 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 28 2013 - 03:53 PM

Jason, Thanks for the clarification. That being the case, DPL IIz is just an industry standard of doing something similar to what Yamaha does with their "Presence", right? If you were in my shoes, would you wire the basement for Presence or for 7.1?

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 05:16 PM

If it were me, I'd wire up both. Then you can switch back an forth(Presence and rear surround use the same amp channels). Your surround should be, pretty much, in the same exact position for 5.1 and 7.1. So switching from 7.1 to 5.1 W/presence has no bearing on the surround channel. I'm not sure "which is the lowest model", but the RX-A has connections for both rear surround and height for this specific purpose. So you can switch from 7.1 to 5.1 w/presence on the fly. The top RX-A(maybe the top two??) Even has "rear presence". Yes...11.1.(Channel 10 and 11 being run with an external amp. There is a guy on the forum running that setup). And by "wire up both" I just mean run the wire and finish in "binding post plates" in both spots. The way AVR are coming along, 9 channel AVR will probably be "mainstream" in 2-3 years. I can see Onkyo and Pioneer releasing a 9 channel AVR at the $800 price point by 2015. Integra (onkyo's CE brand) has been rumored to unleash a 13.2(integra already has AVR where the .2 already means .2...not a "split .1") that will include an "as yet un-named" Dolby format that is "6 channel format height"...as in yes...all 6 channels(not counting center) all get height...

#13 of 17 OFFLINE   Jason Charlton

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Posted January 29 2013 - 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by analytics 

Jason,

Thanks for the clarification. That being the case, DPL IIz is just an industry standard of doing something similar to what Yamaha does with their "Presence", right?

If you were in my shoes, would you wire the basement for Presence or for 7.1?


I can't really make a recommendation, as I've never experienced presence, height, or width speakers.  My basement geometry is really only conducive to 7.1 since I have "depth" to my room, but neither high ceilings nor any room to the sides to spare.


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#14 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 29 2013 - 10:44 AM

Sam, Thanks for the suggestion--I think I will go ahead and wire both. Jason, That is a good way of looking at it--my basement is similar to yours--I have more room for the back speakers than high speakers, so 7.2 is what I'm going for. In a moment of weakness, I decided to go ahead and get the second set of subwoofers, so I will have the full 7.2. But I'm getting sophisticated with the wiring, and will give myself flexibility to bi-amp the two main speakers or add the presence speakers. Here is a new question for everybody. With this setup--700 watts of power from the main system, plus two subwoofers (300 watts each?), should I go ahead and get a dedicated 20 amp circuit? Currently, the whole basement is on a single 15-amp circuit which might not cut it anymore.

#15 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 29 2013 - 11:06 AM

Your AVR is not "700 watts". It is probably only 500-ish(the manual will have the number cause Yamaha doesn't put it on the back by the plug). 20amp is always a good thing. If it were me...the AVR and TV would have its own power...the subs and "sources" would get their own. Some of the upper Onkyo/Integra get close to 10amp by themselves(if you run them at full bore).

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   analytics

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Posted January 30 2013 - 02:44 AM

I guessed 700 watts by mutiplying 100 watts per channel by 7. Is the idea that while it could do 100 watts per channel at any time, it doesn't have enough power to pump 100 watts to every channel simultaneously? I looked in the on-line manual for this info and couldn't find anything.

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 30 2013 - 02:54 AM

The AVR manufacturers(outside of NAD, Anthem...and until this year, HK) promote this unicorns and fairy dust BS. The FTC allows an amp to be "measured" via 1(Sherwood does this...and you'll even see Yamaha with a 1 channel measurement) channel or 2(the vast majority use 2). Whatever that amount of power is...they say x5 or x7 on the box. The reality is nowhere near that. When you find the "specs page" on a Yamaha(or anybody's), the power taken off the wall has to be listed. Doesn't matter if they choose to show amp or wattage.




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