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Choosing a new Receiver based on requirements


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#1 of 25 OFFLINE   maxsound7

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:13 AM

Looking at a few receivers locally and here is what I am in between at the moment, would appreciate a recommendation. First a few things I would like: - I dont want a receiver that will colour or brighten sound, natural the way the music was recorded would be ideal. - Music and home theatre use will be 60/40in favour of Music (big into sound quality had a former IASCA SQ truck). - Want to make sure that I dont have to crank volume to hear voices in movies and then sounds effects are too loud (current old low end sony sucks for this). - Very good EQ to balance and correct sound within a room as needed easily. - Cool running. - Good power, around 100 rms per channel minimum, but I have heard that a good quality 50w per channel like marantz is better? not sure if thats just the salesman. - Best Value for the $ my budget was $500 but will pay more if it is a good deal. - 4ohm stability. Only because I have high end car audio speakers that I would like to build boxes for home. My subwoofer is two ID 10" 4ohm subs in custom box with 300watt bash plate amp so this would not require 4ohm stability correct? Considering custom boxing my former car csx64s 4ohm as well. I would also like to be able to use high end home audio speakers at 8 ohm in the future as money allows. Considering the above am I best to go with a $300 amp and a $300 receiver or a $600 receiver (give or take a few $). Here are some current options I found locally (toronto), tax included: - Denon 2112 $510 - Denon 2113 $710 - Denon 3312 $790 - Marantz NR1603 $650 - Onkyo NR616 $675 - Pioneer VSX 1122 $700 - Pioneer VSX 1127 $620 Thanks!

#2 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:17 AM

The only one on your list I'd buy(the 4ohm is why)... The Onkyo. Denon are legendary for crapping their pants on 4ohm speakers. Maybe the 3312 won't have issues. I'd still buy the Onkyo though. Strongly consider the Onkyo 717 or last years 709.

#3 of 25 OFFLINE   maxsound7

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:34 AM

Thanks for the heads up on the Denons, I will look into those Onkyos. Any suggestions are welcome I am not stuck to the receivers above, thats all I found to be the best deals locally. I would like to add Pioneer SC-1222-K to the list since I found a good online price around $600.

#4 of 25 OFFLINE   TheGary

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:39 AM

There are some things that need to be cleared up. 1. You will NOT get 100 RMS minimum with any receiver unless you start getting into the 1.5k+ range. 2. If you want to use your existing car amp, you will need to modify it for home use, you should read up on that. 3. If you want to use those 4 ohm speakers, some receivers can run them, but it's better to use an external amp, which brings me to 4. To achieve 100W, and run 4 ohm well, you will need an external amp, this also requires that the receiver has pre-outs that can connect to the external amp. 5. The best bang for the buck is probably the Pioneer 1222, which I actually just picked up, and it has 4 ohm speaker rating. This receiver should hold you over until you have enough cash to splurge on a external amplifier, which frees up the receiver to run your surrounds without worrying about the fronts.

#5 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:44 AM

There are some things that need to be cleared up. 1. You will NOT get 100 RMS minimum with any receiver unless you start getting into the 1.5k+ range. 2. If you want to use your existing car amp, you will need to modify it for home use, you should read up on that. 3. If you want to use those 4 ohm speakers, some receivers can run them, but it's better to use an external amp, which brings me to 4. To achieve 100W, and run 4 ohm well, you will need an external amp, this also requires that the receiver has pre-outs that can connect to the external amp. 5. The best bang for the buck is probably the Pioneer 1222, which I actually just picked up, and it has 4 ohm speaker rating. This receiver should hold you over until you have enough cash to splurge on a external amplifier, which frees up the receiver to run your surrounds without worrying about the fronts.

Your "issue 3" is irrelevant here. The only amp he is using(besides the AVR) is a BASH running his subs.

#6 of 25 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted January 25 2013 - 07:52 AM

Onkyo NR616 115 w RMS $399.99 at NewEgg Onkyo NR717 125 w RMS $499.99 at NewEgg through January 30th ($549.99 + $50 off promo code) Prices in USD.

#7 of 25 OFFLINE   TheGary

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Posted January 25 2013 - 08:04 AM

How is it irrelevant? An external amp is much better, some receivers can run them yes, but they get hot as hell.

#8 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 25 2013 - 08:08 AM

I actually meant your "issue 2"... He's not running any "automotive" equipment. Calling a speaker a "car speaker" is a bit irrelevant because of in-wall/ceiling. Same concept. The only reason car audio is 4ohm is because of the limited voltage. To keep "dynamic range" you need to goose the amps.

#9 of 25 OFFLINE   TheGary

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Posted January 25 2013 - 08:13 AM

Ah, didn't know the BASH actually had a AC input, just assumed it was another car amplifier, disregard issue 2 then.

#10 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 25 2013 - 08:23 AM

Ah, didn't know the BASH actually had a AC input, just assumed it was another car amplifier, disregard issue 2 then.

I only knew that cause of the OP and Robert_J's conversation... http://www.hometheat...eaker-selection

#11 of 25 OFFLINE   maxsound7

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Posted January 27 2013 - 11:40 AM

Okay so I have narrowed it down to either: - Onkyo NR616 $349 - Onkyo NR717 $499 - Pioneer VSX1122 $379 - Pioneer SC1222 $549 My options are: - Run the 717 or 1222 with the 4ohm speakers until I add more speakers and maybe an amp later. or - Save some money by going with the 616 or 1122 and buy an amp to run the speakers. If this is a good way to go please recommend an amp for around 200-300, if thats a possible price? Are there are significant improvements for video, sound quality, EQing etc. with the more expensive receivers that I would regret not getting by going the money saving route? Thanks.

#12 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 27 2013 - 01:00 PM

I don't think the 616 would have any issue running the speakers. But. The extra $150 on the 717 makes it so you don't have to worry about ANY speakers for the foreseeable future(plus when the day it comes to sell the thing in 4-5 years...you'll easily recoup the extra $150 in extra resale value). Look at Ebay prices on the 606, 607, 608, 609 vs 706, 707, 708, 709.

#13 of 25 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 27 2013 - 01:08 PM

It doesn't look like you can add an external amp to either the 616 or the 1122. The 1122 and 1222 both come with Pioneers advanced version of MCACC. I really don't think the increase in sound quality would be "significant" if you went with a higher up receiver. Sure, it might be a tad bit better, but not significantly. Thw onkyo 616 and 717 both come with the entry level version of Audyssey, 2EQ. the 818 comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which might just provide a significant improvement in SQ depending on room acoustics, speakers, subwoofers, etc. Some Onkyo/Integra's also has three DSP chips which might also be significant. I sure thought they were in an Integra 70.2 I had. How about an Onkyo 709 refurb from ac4l.com? ($429 + sh). It has MultEQ XT (not quite XT32 but better than 2EQ), 7.1 channel pre-outs to add external amps and probably everything else you might need. http://www.accessori...Receiver/1.html
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#14 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 27 2013 - 01:10 PM

Yeah I missed where he thought the 616/1122 had pre-outs... THEY DON'T...

#15 of 25 OFFLINE   maxsound7

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Posted January 28 2013 - 11:08 AM

I am between the Pioneer SC1222 and Onkyo 709 which currently look like my best options, unless there are other suggestions. I will likely upgrade my speakers in the future but use the really nice 4ohm CXS64s I have for quite awhile. The future speaker budget will be around $700 for the left and right plus maybe $300 for the center. Just have a couple more questions to help make my decision: Is the 709 a good idea refurbished? I have read mixed statements on Onkyo reliability after 2009. Which one will give me better sound quality for music? my main goal is to piece together an awesome natural sounding music system with the ability to have awesome movie quality secondary. (should I really be looking at Cambridge or equal, or is it negligible at my price points?) Thanks

#16 of 25 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 12:14 PM

My personal opinion. The 709/717 mops the floor with the 1222. That and you get more sound modes with the Onkyo. You also get multiple crossovers. And of course you hear more bad things about Onkyo. I would venture a guess the 717 sold around 30:1 compared to the 1222. And yes, I mean 30 times more.

#17 of 25 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 28 2013 - 12:14 PM

I think refurbed receiver from ac4l.com paired with a 5 year extended warranty ($50) is a great way to go. I also think Pioneer receivers offer some good features for movies/tv. I've never really been able to tell one receiver from another with respect to sound quality when watching movies/tv but I think I sometimes hear a difference with music. But you have to have them at the same time and switch them pretty quickly. I would prefer Onkyo for music but probably couldn't prove why. I don't care for the new Onkyo/Integra remotes as you have to go into a menu to do things that you were able to do with a dedicated button. I really Pioneers remotes but most others apparently don't. They are both fairly easy to setup and use, with Onkyo being a little easier to setup (and they have quadruple crossovers as opposed to Pioneers single setting) and Pioneer a little easier to use (better remote-IMO- and the 6 MCACC presets) all IMO of course. I would give the over-all edge to Onkyo, especially as a refurb with 5 year warranty. As i always say, when you've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 receivers, download their manuals and give them a good going over. The speakers will have a much bigger impact on how things will sound. Choose them carefully.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#18 of 25 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted January 28 2013 - 02:02 PM

The speakers will have a much bigger impact on how things will sound. Choose them carefully.

i agree. Nearly 15 years ago I replaced my old speakers with a matched 5.1 set from Atlantic Technology. Same receiver, new speakers. The difference was huge - especially on music. (Unlike a lot of home theater packages, the ATs are very good for 2 channel music with the support of the sub for the low bass.) I've been through 5 receivers in the years since, and have noticed little or no difference in the way movies and music sound on those speakers. (Those receivers included a Kenwood, a Denon, a Yamaha and two different Onkyos. I love the Onkyos. I only replaced the first one with a Yamana because it didn't have HDMI and I could get the best deal on a Yamaha at the time.) As for the Onkyo remote - I think that's a non-issue. I don't know too many people with serious HT systems who use the factory remotes for anything. I use a Logitech 880, myself. And the Onkyo smartphone app looks pretty cool, although I haven't hooked up the NR414 I bought myself for Christamas as yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with the app.) Regards, Joe

#19 of 25 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 28 2013 - 02:50 PM

i agree. Nearly 15 years ago I replaced my old speakers with a matched 5.1 set from Atlantic Technology. Same receiver, new speakers. The difference was huge - especially on music. (Unlike a lot of home theater packages, the ATs are very good for 2 channel music with the support of the sub for the low bass.) I've been through 5 receivers in the years since, and have noticed little or no difference in the way movies and music sound on those speakers. (Those receivers included a Kenwood, a Denon, a Yamaha and two different Onkyos. I love the Onkyos. I only replaced the first one with a Yamana because it didn't have HDMI and I could get the best deal on a Yamaha at the time.) As for the Onkyo remote - I think that's a non-issue. I don't know too many people with serious HT systems who use the factory remotes for anything. I use a Logitech 880, myself. And the Onkyo smartphone app looks pretty cool, although I haven't hooked up the NR414 I bought myself for Christamas as yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with the app.) Regards, Joe

I think I'm one of the very few who actually like to use the receivers remote. Don't get me wrong, Logitech harmony remotes are fantastic. I had an 880 but sold it with the receiver I was using it with. I have a Pioneer receiver, bluray player and universal dvd player in one room and a Marantz receiver universal bluray player and 5 disc cd changer in the another. I use the receivers remote control to operate all the equipment in each room. i must be the exception that proves the rule :) .
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#20 of 25 OFFLINE   Jarburn

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Posted January 29 2013 - 05:04 AM

I would like to add Pioneer SC-1222-K to the list since I found a good online price around $600.

I had been looking at offerings from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, as well as Pio Elite, and couldn't resist the sale price on the 1222 ($549 w/coupon code) at Newegg. I think I'll be happy with it (I'm not ultra demanding these days). I'm floored at some of the bungee cord pricing on AV receivers. A couple of days after Christmas I was about ready to grab an Onkyo TX-NR818 for $679 (multiple authorized sellers) when the price snapped back to $1200 from authorized dealers. The 1222, at even less, was too much to resist. Today the price is back up to $1100 at Newegg. :rolleyes:




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