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Lava LSP-12 and BIC PL-200, specs aren't the final word, are they?


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#1 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 24 2013 - 02:29 AM

I've repaired (new foam surround) my 10-year old Paradigm PDR-10 and am now testing it to see if I want to keep it. If I feel that it wasn't doing a good enough job (80% TV/movies and 20% music, on Paradigm Monitor v3 mains and Paradigm Cinema v1 rears, Paradigm CC170 center in a room 17x25x10 peaking to 15 ceiling and open at the other 17" end), I originally was considering a Lava LSP-12, but now am working the BIC PL-200 into the mix. BTW, I am not an audiophile and I know that these are budget subs and I don't expect them to do more than what they are worth. From this probably well-known review (http://home-subwoofe...tenreviews.com/) of budget subs, the PL-200 came in first and the Lava fifth. Nonetheless, I wouldn't mind hearing some comments about these two subs from those who know that specs and tests aren't everything...

#2 of 13 Robert_J

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Posted January 24 2013 - 10:27 AM

17x25x10 peaking to 15 ceiling and open at the other 17" end

That room is larger than mine and I'm constantly thinking of upgrading my dual 15" setup. I've never heard the BIC but have read nothing but good things about them. Sam has some hands on experience with BIC products and he recommends them.

#3 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 24 2013 - 10:58 AM

Thanks, RJ. I certainly do agree that the room could use larger sub(s), but I'm at my budget and am willing not to have all that could be had from a bigger set-up. Right now I am testing my repaired PDR-10 to find out where to put a sub and, to see (hear) how much I may be missing, and to practice calibrating the sub. In my effort to calibrate the sub, I'm using the RC SPL and I'm trying to calibrate it before using. However, I have downloaded (to a CD: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm) test frequency sounds, but they won't play on my Panasonic BD-85 (and do play on my computer). Any suggestions here?

#4 of 13 Robert_J

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Posted January 24 2013 - 01:49 PM

Which SPL meter? If it is the old Rat Shack analog model, I can help you.

#5 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 24 2013 - 09:54 PM

That's the meter I have, the old analog. And many thanks for your continued help...I can assure you that it is well appreciated.

#6 of 13 Robert_J

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Posted January 25 2013 - 12:59 AM

1. I used a free piece of software called NCH Tone Generator to create .wav files of sine waves centered on each frequency measured in the PEQ spreadsheet. If you can set the level, set it at 0db. I made each file 7 seconds long. http://www.pvconsult...udio/eq/peq.htm The 40 frequencies are on the Measured Response tab of the spreadsheet. 2. Burn them as an audio disc. I put a 10 second pause between tracks to allow me to write down the SPL. I made track one the highest frequency (100hz or whatever it is). 3. Set up your SPL meter on a tripod at your listening position. It should be at ear level and pointed up at a 45 degree angle. 4. Disconnect your main speakers. 5. Play each tone and measure the SPL. I set the volume so that 40hz (or some tone close to that) measured 85db. As you go through the different frequencies, you may have to adjust the range setting on the meter. If you measure 20hz and it is below 80db, then you set the range down to the 75. 6. When done, enter the values into the spreadsheet. You will apply the correction values to the numbers by checking that option. 7. Look at the graph. A perfect graph should not vary more than 3db in either direction. In my case, I had a 14db peak at 55hz. Not good. 8. You can add virtual filters in the software to flatten the graph more. Once you get the simulated graph looking like you want, you can take the values from each filter and input them into a BFD.

#7 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 26 2013 - 04:40 AM

Hey RJ, thanks for the detailed approach. However, I am having some problems. Firstly, although I know that it is better to use wav files than MP3 files, my bluray player (Panasonic BD-85) doesn't do wav, and thus I have to use MP3 files??? I've downloaded the sound generator, but don't know how to use it (i.e., how to save sound file - save one sound at a time, or can one save a list of sounds?). Clicking on Help brought me to an attachment placed in an email to be sent, but the attachment didn't open...very weird. So, if the generator does MP3, or if it does wav that I can convert to MP3, then I think I can continue on (with a few more questions once I get into the setup).

#8 of 13 Robert_J

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Posted January 27 2013 - 01:16 PM

You have to create one file at a time. Each file gets its own name as well. For example, 100 hz tone can be named 100.wav. 90hz = 090.wav. And so on. When burning the disc, don't burn it as data. Burn it as an audio CD. I've used everything from Nero to Easy CD Creator to Easy CDDA Extractor to burn audio discs.

#9 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 27 2013 - 10:55 PM

As my bluray player doesn't do .wav, does this mean that if I generate tones using this generator, I'll have to convert them in MP3 to get them to play?

#10 of 13 Jason Charlton

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Posted January 28 2013 - 02:24 AM

Adam, you're missing the point that Robert_J is trying to make.


You will burn the disc as an Audio CD, not a Data CD.  the ".wav" files that you put on the disc won't actually be ".wav" files - it will be a redbook audio CD.  Your Blu-ray player plays audio CDs, right?


You can't use .mp3 files for this purpose as they are heavily compressed.  You create a "track" for each tone, save as a .wav file (PCM or uncompressed would be ideal), then when you use your CD-recording software, you will need to make sure you select "Audio CD" from a menu of selected disc formats.  The precise menu options are different for all recording software applications, but the general idea is the same.


Chances are, every disc you've ever recorded has been a "data" disc - meaning that the files are organized and read in the same way a computer would read them.


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#11 of 13 flycaster

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Posted January 28 2013 - 07:47 AM

Sorry, guys, but I think I keep screwing u as I can't get this stuff right. When using the sound generator, I save the files, but they are 1kb (shouldn't they have been larger?) and they won't load into WMP. Not sure what you mean on making "tracks." Can each file be a track? That is, when I drag them into the left side, they say they are going to Libraries, but I don't see anything in Libraries. Also, they won't load into the burn section (just thought I'd try it). BTW, the options in WMP for burning is Audio CD.

#12 of 13 schan1269

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Posted January 28 2013 - 08:33 AM

I'm going to throw out a slightly different idea(cause I don't understand the struggle in creating RedBook)... Use this...if your computer/laptop...whatever it is, has HDMI... http://www.audiocheck.net/ If your computer doesn't have HDMI, I don't know what to tell you.

#13 of 13 Robert_J

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Posted January 28 2013 - 11:16 AM

Here's a good article (15 years old) that explains the different types of CDs - http://www.soundonso...s/cdformats.htm Here's an audio CD burner - http://www.dvdvideos...o-cd-burner.htm No, the files don't have to be that big. It's a single sine wave and a very short duration.




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