Recommendation for theater subwoofers? (1 Viewer)

Would really appreciate some advice from some of you out there who are much more knowledgeable than myself.
I recently completed a home theater which is a 25'x15' room with three levels each about 6" difference. Projector in front
with a small stage for looks. Audio guy put in 7.1 surround w/ pinnacle built ins and center using a high end Denon receiver.
Don't recall the models but it all sounds great except for the base. He used lower end in wall hidden pinnacles which are either
dual firing 6" or 8" subs. Not sure why he skimped out here but my fault for not getting more involved in this process. Part of a new
home build. So we tried to 12" wireless pinnacle subs in back but they are sloppy and I decided to simply remove the wall subs in front
and wire in 12 box subs and place somewhere in front of room or wherever sounds best. Aesthetics don't matter. Room is only used for movies.
If I am willing to spend up to about $1800 more for base at this point, what would be your guys best setup. Based on suggestions from a few friends, I had thought either two 12" Sunfire subs or possibly Definitive 12 supercube. Its a pretty big room to fill but I don't want to spend more than that. Suggestions on base for this setup staying under 2K?
thanks a lot

How old are these speakers(in hours)?
I sold Pinnacle in-wall subwoofers and those things were as stiff as a plank straight out of the package. It wasn't uncommon for them to need 150 hours of break in.

They have only had about 25-30 hours of use. They sound pretty weak though and don't drop nearly low enough to fill the room or hit any low frequencies during movies. I also think they are a bit muffled due to being in the walls. I think he was trying to save money on them and also keep the aesthetics of the room good vs. going for sound quality.

Well, I have no recommendations then, as you want stuff to be broken in...straight from the box.
Even the HSU ULS sound like crap for 200hrs...but you don't have the patience to wait.

By the way, what amp is behing those Pinnacle in walls? Even with 200wpc on them, once broken in, they reach a -3 22hz at 106db. But it takes a while.

I believe its these guys...http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/subcompact6.html
I guess I can see how they sound as time goes on but the audio guy who installed them never mentioned expecting anything to chance from what's in place. He recommended upgrading to more powerful sub setup if I wasn't happy with what's in place. Definitely sound underpowered and definitely don't drop to hit any low base frequencies. Any recs on box subs?

I am guessing two of these guys from pinnacle would result in a drastic upgrade but not sure of price
http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/br12.html

That is not a built in subwoofer.
We had one of those in our office to show how good it was in an 8x10 room. In an 8x10 it works great...and is the best small sub out there. But that is like saying the Smart is the best car in its class...

That makes sense. It must not be a true bulit in then by design although its built into my wall, placed w/ the building process. Only vented via a 12x12" vent so its hidden. Im sure this makes it production sub-optimal although like you say, its in another ball park from real sub systems out there. Any suggestions then for this room under 2K?

HTD makes very good subs. The Level 3.
HSU VTF (two) or one ULS.
I think Epik is still around...if so, two Legend.
Check on Audigon see if there is a used Velodyne DD18 or a Von Schweikert.

Basically for $2000...
First thing I'd do is check Audiogon. You never know when somebody is sacrificing a $6000 sub for $1500...

Like Sam already mentioned, Epik or Hsu but I want to mention Power Sound, SVS and Seaton Sound.
I think my room is 24x16 and I run dual 15" DIY subs with 800w on each one. I'm flat to about 15hz, -3db at 12hz with output I haven't completely tested. When I let a young friend of mine work the remote, I had to re-align the projector and I still didn't reach the limits of the sub. With that kind of money, go BIG!!!!
When it warms up, I'm going to test a single 15" that was custom designed for me, an 18" designed by the same guy and a 21" Exodus Audio Maelstrom. I will just bridge my amp for 1,600w into the single subs.

Thanks for the info.
If I went with SVS what setup and models would you recommend. Two 12's or 2 15's. Do you feel that 15's get a little sloppier than 12's. I
have sort of been planning on doing 2 12's of whatever two subs are recommended. I'm open to anything though. I am far from an expert
in audio though.

SVS doesn't have a 15.
I'd rather have on 13Ultra instead of two 12NSD

So the one SVS ultra for the room? Seems to put it at 2k. Any idea how that compares to the 2 lower end 12" sunfires?

nystad said:

Thanks for the info.
If I went with SVS what setup and models would you recommend. Two 12's or 2 15's. Do you feel that 15's get a little sloppier than 12's. I
have sort of been planning on doing 2 12's of whatever two subs are recommended. I'm open to anything though. I am far from an expert
in audio though.

Click to expand...

The whole "big woofers are slow" myth was proven wrong years ago by Dan Wiggins and Dr. David Hyre. http://www.diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/WooferSpeed.pdf
Bass is all about moving air so you either go with more subs or larger subs. Ideally, more larger subs is the best solution. Chase Home Theater http://www.chasehometheater.com probably has the largest sub right now with dual 18" drivers.
I mentioned Powersound earlier. Both owners came from SVS including Tom Vodhanel (the V in SVS).
The SVS Ultra that Sam mentioned is one of the best sound quality subs on the market. The driver was designed by Stephen Ponte and is one of the few underhung designs on the market. If you aren't familiar with underhung drivers, then go back to the Woofer Speed doc. Underhung uses a smaller coil in a large top plate to achieve the same excursion. But the smaller coil has a much lower inductance which gives you better sound quality.
The best value if you aren't a critical listener is dual Epik Legends. The owner is a member here. Then again, most of the guys that currently work at SVS are. Tom and Ron met here and founded SVS. Dan Wiggins had a huge impact here in teaching everyone about sub building. The old DIY section was great.

Or... http://app.audiogon.com/listings/subwoofers-rbh-sep-1010-2012-12-17-home-theater-90278-redondo-beach-ca http://app.audiogon.com/listings/subwoofers-revel-performa-b15a-powered-subwoofer-2012-12-16-home-theater-22202-arlington-va http://app.audiogon.com/listings/subwoofers-jbl-1500-array-price-drop-huge-savings-slightly-used-2012-12-12-home-theater-50322 Or if you want to double your budget...and reinforce your house... http://app.audiogon.com/listings/subwoofers-wilson-audio-pow-whow-ii-subwoofer-2012-12-17-home-theater-48103

I dread the day my 30yo M&K bites the dust. I will probably DIY once it dies, cause it probably would take the 13ultra to match it.
But...I'm sure the M&K doesn't come close...but after 30 years...

I also recommend the SVS subs. I bought their cheapest one (at the time), PC12-NSD cylinder sub, and it's amazing! I've heard lows I had never heard before, and feel even more of them.
See their current subs here: http://www.svsound.com/
Good luck with whatever you choose.

Which Sunfire models? Some of them used TC Sounds drivers. One of the last runs of 8" drivers they made for Sunfire ended up being sold for $65 each. Same thing for the more expensive subs as well. Since Sam linked to a Wilson sub, why not the $22,000 Thor's Hammer. http://hometechnodesign.blogspot.com/2010/10/wilson-audios-thors-hammer-is.html Take a look at the double basket driver. If you are familiar with the car audio world, that's the same double basket that Memphis Audio uses. Both are made by NCA Labs of Sacramento. Basically, Sunfire is nothing special. They have to use a driver with a massive excursion and huge amp to get around such a small enclosure. If I didn't DIY, I'd go internet direct so you could at least talk to the guys you are buying from. If you are close by to any of these companies, they normally let you audition at the factory. Sam could drive over to Woodstock, IL and see the Epik subs being built. SVS is built in Ohio. Hsu is in Orange County, CA. Powersound is in OH. Seaton Sound is in the Chicago area. I think Chase Home Theater is in PA.